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Do you believe in Dubas?

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Do you believe in Dubas?

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If the anti-Dubas fans (and I'm one of them) end up being wrong this year, I think the majority will gladly eat crow. The pro-Dubas fans on the other hand,( and there's a few on here who defend him and MM to no end so much though that it's weird) end up being wrong and the Leafs bow out again, they'll still continue on the "don't give up on elite talent" path. They "barely lost' , "they're better than they showed" look at these stats......they just dig in deeper
 
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hotpaws said:
Personal attack ?

and how did I “mischaracterize” your argument , all I said is every year I’ve been on this board you’ve been telling us we’ve been undervaluing the team , which is the truth so i have no idea why this would upset you
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If you want to reference a specific argument, go for it, but mischaracterizing 12 years of arguments is just a lazy personal attack.
 
Apex Predator said:
yes there is a difference. Do you think the Leafs are elite?

Also finishing behind Florida, Tampa Bay and Boston is not a bad thing. Those are very good teams. That’s why a lot of people think they will be in the wild card spot fighting for a spot. Not crazy to think they will finish behind those three.
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TSN had an article this morning which said Shanny’s bosses believe in the Shanahan Plan fantastically.
 
This is about the Jays:

The big picture
Toronto is in a position to make this deal because the majority of its talent is still working through pre-arbitration years or, in the case of Vladimir Guerrero Jr., hitting arbitration for the first time. This roster construction didn’t happen overnight, and it came with plenty of pain, bottoming out with a 67-95 season in ’19, but this combination of talent and future flexibility was always the goal.

It’s like the Leafs never had this phase. They went from underpaid to overpaid too quickly
 
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Ashdown2 said:
this is a dumb argument ........ its easy to have depth when your top 3 guys were on ELC contracts
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Ok, but perhaps not only signing all 3 AND adding an $11M UFA was not the correct decision as that necessitated needing to shed too much depth.
 
Lumberg said:
If the anti-Dubas fans (and I'm one of them) end up being wrong this year, I think the majority will gladly eat crow
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No disrespect, but what be the definition of Anti-Dubas crowd being wrong? Leafs win the cup?

If that is so, I should hope that it wouldn't be just the majority, but more so the entirety of that group that would gladly eat crow lol

All kidding aside, As a Dubas fan, I really think winning a single round is a success. It sounds pathetic, because it is, but ultimately that would go a really long way for this group. Willy/Matts/Mitch will still be young enough to trust them to run it back the year following, and we should see a gradual influx of new wave talent like Robertson, Amirov, Knies, Holmberg, Neimela, Steeves...etc to fill the gaps in the years that follow.

I know that likely will piss people off in here, but the reality of it is, this core is still young enough to progress beyond this year. As long as there is progress, I'd consider that success. Sure it's a step we would have liked 2-3 years ago, but better late than never. It would be a shame to move on from a core that finally makes it past the mental hurdle of the first round right after they finally do so.

Totally understand that this will be controversial take for some, but realistically we just need to win a single f***ing round at this point lol. I'll adjust my expectations when they show me they can achieve that. Until then, it will be win a playoff round or bust.

And I can only speak for myself and not all the Dubas supporters, but if they fail in the same capacity as they always have (ie. dont make playoffs, or first round exit) I expect there to be changes. My preference would be to allow Kyle to make those changes, but I am not stupid, he likely will be the first to go. However, in the off chance he in fact gets the vote of confidence from MLSE, and decides to run this core back once more, I will happily join the hate train and will fully jump on board to carry out his dismissal. You can hold me to it.

I will say though, I am fairly confident that if Kyle is given another opportunity to GM the club after another failed post-season, I just cannot see him running it back once more. But I have been wrong many times before.
 
zeke said:
If you want to reference a specific argument, go for it, but mischaracterizing 12 years of arguments is just a lazy personal attack.
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why would i need to reference a specific argument when they all amount to the same thing ?
 
Twine Tickler said:
No disrespect, but what be the definition of Anti-Dubas crowd being wrong? Leafs win the cup?

If that is so, I should hope that it wouldn't be just the majority, but more so the entirety of that group that would gladly eat crow lol

All kidding aside, As a Dubas fan, I really think winning a single round is a success. It sounds pathetic, because it is, but ultimately that would go a really long way for this group. Willy/Matts/Mitch will still be young enough to trust them to run it back the year following, and we should see a gradual influx of new wave talent like Robertson, Amirov, Knies, Holmberg, Neimela, Steeves...etc to fill the gaps in the years that follow.

I know that likely will piss people off in here, but the reality of it is, this core is still young enough to progress beyond this year. As long as there is progress, I'd consider that success. Sure it's a step we would have liked 2-3 years ago, but better late than never. It would be a shame to move on from a core that finally makes it past the mental hurdle of the first round right after they finally do so.

Totally understand that this will be controversial take for some, but realistically we just need to win a single f***ing round at this point lol. I'll adjust my expectations when they show me they can achieve that. Until then, it will be win a playoff round or bust.

And I can only speak for myself and not all the Dubas supporters, but if they fail in the same capacity as they always have (ie. dont make playoffs, or first round exit) I expect there to be changes. My preference would be to allow Kyle to make those changes, but I am not stupid, he likely will be the first to go. However, in the off chance he in fact gets the vote of confidence from MLSE, and decides to run this core back once more, I will happily join the hate train and will fully jump on board to carry out his dismissal. You can hold me to it.

I will say though, I am fairly confident that if Kyle is given another opportunity to GM the club after another failed post-season, I just cannot see him running it back once more. But I have been wrong many times before.
Click to expand...
Yes win a round, show some fire, play hard and I'm on board again. But I don't like the coddling to some and punishing others.
This team isn't ready to go to battle
 
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Twine Tickler said:
No disrespect, but what be the definition of Anti-Dubas crowd being wrong? Leafs win the cup?

If that is so, I should hope that it wouldn't be just the majority, but more so the entirety of that group that would gladly eat crow lol

All kidding aside, As a Dubas fan, I really think winning a single round is a success. It sounds pathetic, because it is, but ultimately that would go a really long way for this group. Willy/Matts/Mitch will still be young enough to trust them to run it back the year following, and we should see a gradual influx of new wave talent like Robertson, Amirov, Knies, Holmberg, Neimela, Steeves...etc to fill the gaps in the years that follow.

I know that likely will piss people off in here, but the reality of it is, this core is still young enough to progress beyond this year. As long as there is progress, I'd consider that success. Sure it's a step we would have liked 2-3 years ago, but better late than never. It would be a shame to move on from a core that finally makes it past the mental hurdle of the first round right after they finally do so.

Totally understand that this will be controversial take for some, but realistically we just need to win a single f***ing round at this point lol. I'll adjust my expectations when they show me they can achieve that. Until then, it will be win a playoff round or bust.

And I can only speak for myself and not all the Dubas supporters, but if they fail in the same capacity as they always have (ie. dont make playoffs, or first round exit) I expect there to be changes. My preference would be to allow Kyle to make those changes, but I am not stupid, he likely will be the first to go. However, in the off chance he in fact gets the vote of confidence from MLSE, and decides to run this core back once more, I will happily join the hate train and will fully jump on board to carry out his dismissal. You can hold me to it.

I will say though, I am fairly confident that if Kyle is given another opportunity to GM the club after another failed post-season, I just cannot see him running it back once more. But I have been wrong many times before.
Click to expand...


It is sad that that would be considered a success.
 
HamiltonNHL said:
This is about the Jays:

The big picture
Toronto is in a position to make this deal because the majority of its talent is still working through pre-arbitration years or, in the case of Vladimir Guerrero Jr., hitting arbitration for the first time. This roster construction didn’t happen overnight, and it came with plenty of pain, bottoming out with a 67-95 season in ’19, but this combination of talent and future flexibility was always the goal.

It’s like the Leafs never had this phase. They went from underpaid to overpaid too quickly
Click to expand...
They chose to give 14 million a year to Patrick Marleau, Nikita Zaitsev, and Ron Hainsey. That's what they did with the extra cap space they had with 3 star players on ELCs.
 
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WillyNy said:
They chose to give 14 million a year to Patrick Marleau, Nikita Zaitsev, and Ron Hainsey. That's what they did with the extra cap space they had with 3 star players on ELCs.
Click to expand...
and Dubas gave 6.5m to Ritchie and Mzarak
 
hotpaws said:
and Dubas gave 6.5m to Ritchie and Mzarak
Click to expand...

WillyNy said:
garbage deals
Click to expand...

And signed: Kamph, Kase and Bunting for 3.7M. At this point would you argue these contracts are fabulous? I wouldn't, because they need to prove their games over the course of a season(s), just as I'd argue we won't know the truth of the Ritchie and Mrazak deals until much later this year, or next. 17 games into a season does not a contract make.
 
meefer said:
And signed: Kamph, Kase and Bunting for 3.7M. At this point would you argue these contracts are fabulous? I wouldn't, because they need to prove their games over the course of a season(s), just as I'd argue we won't know the truth of the Ritchie and Mrazak deals until much later this year, or next. 17 games into a season does not a contract make.
Click to expand...
Yea let’s kick the can down the road because making excuses is what this fan base does best .

and hopefully Campbell keeps playing well but if he does please explain how we’ll be able to afford Mzarak next season to be able gauge his deal ?
 
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meefer said:
And signed: Kamph, Kase and Bunting for 3.7M. At this point would you argue these contracts are fabulous? I wouldn't, because they need to prove their games over the course of a season(s), just as I'd argue we won't know the truth of the Ritchie and Mrazak deals until much later this year, or next. 17 games into a season does not a contract make.
Click to expand...
I loved all 3 of those signings.
Ritchie is a terrible signing no matter how you slice it. He was never a good player, and the fact that he got more than all 3 of the guys you mentioned just shows how badly Dubas missed on that one
 
hotpaws said:
Yea let’s kick the can down the road because making excuses is what this fan base does best .

and hopefully Campbell keeps playing well but if he does please explain how we’ll be able to afford Mzarak next season to be able gauge his deal ?
Click to expand...
We won’t be able to re-sign Campbell without crippling the defense. I think Dubas’s plan is to let Campbell walk if his price is too high and roll with Mrazek and another cheap goalie he believes in, like when he brought in Campbell
 
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