Do we want Kessel and Phaneuf back for next year?

GordieHoweHatTrick

Registered User
Sep 20, 2009
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Toronto
There is never any point in dumping them for scraps. Just people are afraid if they aren't moved the club will try to roll again with this failure core. If Randy got them to the playoffs can't Babs do the same? More mediocrity. I dont expect the organization has any intention of building around Dion and Phil but it might be mid season before deals are made. Any clubs that thought they were "set" at D and wing and find out otherwise will be in the market again

Management pulled the plug on Carlyle when the Team was in a playoff spot and that gives me confidence that they'll pull the plug on Phaneuf and/or Kessel mid-season even if the Leafs are in the middle of the race.

What will be important is getting the value they desire, whether that is this off-season, mid-season or next off-season. Patience needs to be preached among the fanbase.
 

deletethis

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
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Toronto
He won't hesitate to have them sit in the press box if their performance is underwhelming. $4 million man Stephen Weiss was a healthy scratch quite a bit.

And when they come back into the lineup and do the exact same things because they've got guaranteed deals?
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,380
2,233
Toronto
I am not sure how every one feel here and I have seen so many people talking about Phaneuf and how bad his contract is, but I don't his contract is bad at all when you compare his to other defense man. Petry just signed a six years contract for $5.5 M and I am sure Franson is going to sign in the neighborhood of $5.5-6 per year

I know we might get, what we are expecting but he should still get us a 1st rounder plus a prospect and a roster player
 
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WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
34,136
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And when they come back into the lineup and do the exact same things because they've got guaranteed deals?

You hope professional pride takes over at some point, although it didn't this year when we sucked at the end.

It's all hypothetical lol.
 

senor martinez

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Oct 1, 2014
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What can lead dog Babcock do if a star forward(s) refuses to participate in a new type of break out scheme? What can Babcock do if his team collectively refuses to salute its unmistakably partisan home crowd as some sort of misguided protest? What if some of Babcock's players continue worry more about social media than preparation for their next game? What if any of his star players take 5 seconds to skate back to the bench with his head down, while the puck is already up for contention in the defensive zone? What happens when Babcock asks his players to come to an optional skate to work on some details and few of them show up?

Answer: nothing. Babcock can't teach professionalism to players who aren't prepared to behave like professionals.
Babcock is such an inspiration that he already has changed the atmosphere around the team and organization. It's a shame some of our loser players have already proved that they can't play in toronto for any coach so they'll be traded and they won't see babcock in action.

Babcock's team will have a positive vibe always, just like in the past with every team he's worked with. I am not worried about anything anymore. He babcock is more important than our players. Babcock will teach them and tell them what to do, that's why he is more important than the players. He even tells who plays and who doesn't. Therefore players are dumber and stupider and they just sit or play.

Everybody wants to win in the future for the leafs and that makes me happy. Will be entertainment again watching the maple leafs and that's the most important.
 

Preisst*

Registered User
Jun 11, 2008
3,569
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Western Canada
Na. He does more bad than good remember? :sarcasm:

Don't worry I remember. As the off season grows longer short memories start to fade and some forget just how bad he is. I don't and I won't.

The sooner he is gone the better off the team will be for it.

I also think we need to trade him now while some teams might think he won't regress further. I think he's only going to get worse if thats possible.
 

Preisst*

Registered User
Jun 11, 2008
3,569
2
Western Canada
Babcock is such an inspiration that he already has changed the atmosphere around the team and organization. It's a shame some of our loser players have already proved that they can't play in toronto for any coach so they'll be traded and they won't see babcock in action.

Babcock's team will have a positive vibe always, just like in the past with every team he's worked with. I am not worried about anything anymore. He babcock is more important than our players. Babcock will teach them and tell them what to do, that's why he is more important than the players. He even tells who plays and who doesn't. Therefore players are dumber and stupider and they just sit or play.

Everybody wants to win in the future for the leafs and that makes me happy. Will be entertainment again watching the maple leafs and that's the most important.

Maybe for you it is. For me winning hockey games is more important then losing but being entertained.
 

Schenn

In Rod We Trust
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Feb 24, 2009
34,143
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Huron County
I'd like to see one of them gone if not both. But I do not want to see either traded is the Leafs are going to get a crap return for them. Only if it makes sense for the club, not to deal them just for the sake of it.
 

crump

~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Feb 26, 2004
15,158
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Time to move on, they should garner some good picks. Scorched earth and all that. Will be dissapointed to see either back.
 

JackJ

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Feb 7, 2012
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Move both to the highest bidder. Use the new cap space to take on salary dumps or Winnik/Santo type UFA's.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,568
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Toronto, ON
The amount of abuse that both of these guys got last season was unreal.

Kessel is one dimensional and won't change. Not the right piece when the Leafs are trying to start from scratch.

Phaneuf wasn't playing up to what his contract was (not his fault he got so much) but he was also the only one answering the bell when guys were trying to fight him at the end of the season.

A new coach doesn't change the player that much and a tiger will always show it's stripes....

Highest return possible this off-season and move on.
 

Habitant#1

Registered User
Feb 15, 2006
2,339
698
Brisbane
Has fan here:

If Kessel is thought to be too old in the sense that he won't be in his prime when the Leafs are going to compete again, what about JVR who's one year younger?

Do you guys think he might be moved?

Not gonna lie, as a Habs fan I'd be veryyyyyyyyy interested!

1st + Scherbak? Any takers?
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
24,658
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1. Why do you want Kessel/Phaneuf back for next season?
2. What is the long range plan for Kessel/Phaneuf? Part of the rebuild? Key parts to a Cup winning team? Complimentary (expensive parts) to a Cup winning team?
 

Bravid Nonahan

carlylol = القسوة
Mar 22, 2009
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Has fan here:

If Kessel is thought to be too old in the sense that he won't be in his prime when the Leafs are going to compete again, what about JVR who's one year younger?

Do you guys think he might be moved?

Not gonna lie, as a Habs fan I'd be veryyyyyyyyy interested!

1st + Scherbak? Any takers?

I might be a taker if you also threw in JDLR
 

Ovate

Registered User
Dec 17, 2014
4,105
56
Toronto
Has fan here:

If Kessel is thought to be too old in the sense that he won't be in his prime when the Leafs are going to compete again, what about JVR who's one year younger?

Do you guys think he might be moved?

Not gonna lie, as a Habs fan I'd be veryyyyyyyyy interested!

1st + Scherbak? Any takers?

JVR might be moved, but that's not enough to get him. Some other team will offer more.

Scherbak reminds me of JVR in playstyle, but just sort of worse in every way. I don't know if Montreal has the assets to acquire JVR. All they've got are a bunch of late firsts and equivalent players, guys that will be second line/pairing players if everything goes right for them.

McCarron is probably the guy the Leafs want most, seeing as how he was a Knight for most of his OHL career.
 
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Hunter74

Registered User
Sep 21, 2004
1,045
15
What can lead dog Babcock do if a star forward(s) refuses to participate in a new type of break out scheme? What can Babcock do if his team collectively refuses to salute its unmistakably partisan home crowd as some sort of misguided protest? What if some of Babcock's players continue worry more about social media than preparation for their next game? What if any of his star players take 5 seconds to skate back to the bench with his head down, while the puck is already up for contention in the defensive zone? What happens when Babcock asks his players to come to an optional skate to work on some details and few of them show up?

Answer: nothing. Babcock can't teach professionalism to players who aren't prepared to behave like professionals.

Babcock could dock the ice time, cut PP time, benching, press box, team could suspend the player. If you do not get the response you want out of the player at any of those stages of discipline you can trade him for what you consider to be fair value. The Jets were not happy with Kane's professionalism so they decided to make an organizational stance and trade him. The Leafs up to this point have not had the back bone to do this.

First and for most you have to have a coach/GM with enough back bone and Ownership backing to make those bold moves.

Carlyle did not have enough backing to cut Kessel's ice time let alone bench him or press box him. If Carlyle did that, there would be a very high probability Carlyle would of been fired shortly afterwards imo. Horechuk didn't do it as he was coaching for the tank. Though he did do with with Lupul but by this time the season was lost the locker room was lost and everything was done.

Babcock has the backing of ownership and can handle his players as he sees fit.
 

Hunter74

Registered User
Sep 21, 2004
1,045
15
1. Why do you want Kessel/Phaneuf back for next season?
2. What is the long range plan for Kessel/Phaneuf? Part of the rebuild? Key parts to a Cup winning team? Complimentary (expensive parts) to a Cup winning team?

Bridge players, just to insulate our up and coming players until they are ready and then unload bridge players for more assets to sustain the development system.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
For us to get a true rebuild started, both have to go and the slate wiped clean. I hear Phaneuf's place is up for sale...

Kessel of course rents and rooms with Bozak.
 

The Apologist

Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Oct 16, 2007
12,257
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Leaf Nation Hell
For us to get a true rebuild started, both have to go and the slate wiped clean. I hear Phaneuf's place is up for sale...

Kessel of course rents and rooms with Bozak.

Fully agree, but the value has to be there. A huge part of why we are where we are is because we dont get value for our assets
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
76,648
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For us to get a true rebuild started, both have to go and the slate wiped clean. I hear Phaneuf's place is up for sale...

Kessel of course rents and rooms with Bozak.

Are you inferring Phaneuf is anticipating being traded?
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
7,388
1,573
Getting complications...

Babcock almost traded for Phaneuff. Kessel has way more value. Phaneuff is way more likely to play Babcock's style. Kessel only plays one man's style...his, and we don't have a center for him. Kessel is gone to the highest bidder and there will be some GM's desperate to make the playoff$$$. Phaneuff may get another year as the offers may not make sense.

"Let's support these guys..." Babcock.
 

senor martinez

Komarov's cohonez
Oct 1, 2014
3,186
0
Maybe for you it is. For me winning hockey games is more important then losing but being entertained.
To me it ain't.

If my team gives all it has like all those Sundin, Quinn, Nieuwendyk, Steve Thomas, Mogilny, Belfour, Tucker, Domi Corson teams gave all they had and they did something SPECIAL and DIFFERENT on the ice it was much more important than losing or winning. I was entertainent like the gladiator says.
These are tough games where blood is shared and dangerous things happen. Even deaths. So then it's life and death, cause it's entertainment. Nothing and I mean nothing has changed after the times of rome. People still want to see blood and special surprising things in sports. Entertainment is the thing we pay for. We don't watch these sports and I even invest in this organization if we don't enjoy what we see. My best leafs memories are still from all those sundin tucker teams who beat the senators again and again and almost fought for the stanley cup. They were very special teams with special personel in em.
 

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