Do we want Kessel and Phaneuf back for next year?

[rdawg1234]

Because the offers for the main players are sub par. If you cant get something that will improve the team going forward then why move them?

Moving such large assets just for the sake of moving them wouldn't be good business.

Trades really dont happen until around the draft after the finals, we dont even know what the offers are yet, it's very rare for trade talk to happen now, but it should start picking up in a week or two.

at least one of these guys goes, as well as bozak, Management doesn't want these guys around, you dont fire the whole management team and then keep the core problem.

 

[senor martinez]

Trades really dont happen until around the draft after the finals, we dont even know what the offers are yet, it's very rare for trade talk to happen now, but it should start picking up in a week or two.

at least one of these guys goes, as well as bozak, Management doesn't want these guys around, you dont fire the whole management team and then keep the core problem.

Yeah you just don't do that there. These players really made an embarrassament of the maple leafs last season.... I hated watching our team play. Just awful in so many ways. Get rid of the "core"... or what ever you want to call it. Horrible stuff really with the leafs lately. Babcock really needs better puzzles to work with. Fire as many as possible and only keep the real ones left.

 

[Hunter74]

Don't start over valuing these players. I am sure there will be a good offer. But if the Leafs expect a King's ransom, then they are making a huge mistake. Dion's value is not going up, why would it? Kessel's value may go up, but not by that much.

If management feels the offers are more value to the team than what these core guys bring now and in the future then I am sure management pulls the trigger.

I think Dions value can go up as it is really down after 2 subpar seasons.

 

[34]

Keep Kessel.

Trade Phaneuf!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Keep Kessel.

Trade Phaneuf!

I wouldn't keep Kessel during a rebuild.
Period.

Why keep him ?

 

[Joey24]

I hope they keep Phaneuf and trade Kessel.

I'm with this feeling also. In reality trade them both it will help the rebuild speed up. At the end of the day if we can't get value for either I would hold onto them both for another season or atleast till the deadline.

 

[Rielly4]

I mean...It really depends on the offers.. But ideally we get the offers we good offers for both and ship them both out for some top 20 picks in this draft+some young players and possibly some cap dumps.

 

[nuck]

I'm with this feeling also. In reality trade them both it will help the rebuild speed up. At the end of the day if we can't get value for either I would hold onto them both for another season or atleast till the deadline.

There is never any point in dumping them for scraps. Just people are afraid if they aren't moved the club will try to roll again with this failure core. If Randy got them to the playoffs can't Babs do the same? More mediocrity. I dont expect the organization has any intention of building around Dion and Phil but it might be mid season before deals are made. Any clubs that thought they were "set" at D and wing and find out otherwise will be in the market again

 

[thewave]

Keep Kessel.

Trade Phaneuf!

I have no problem keeping both if we aren't getting good value. Kessel has made everyone he plays with better. The fact that Bozak is a horrible C is not his fault.

Kessel revived Lupul.
Kessel made Bozak
Kessel got something out of JVR

I really thought long and hard and replayed what I saw in previous seasons. Upon doing so I realized that Kessel enables offense for his whole line. He is not strong defensively but is Bozak? JVR? Lupul?

I would sooner trade JVR for that 5th OA pick and Semin than Kessel.

On the outs for me...

Bozak
Lupul
JVR
Polak
Robidas

Savings: 18million aprox.

 

[080]

I have no problem keeping both if we aren't getting good value. Kessel has made everyone he plays with better. The fact that Bozak is a horrible C is not his fault.

Kessel revived Lupul.
Kessel made Bozak
Kessel got something out of JVR

I really thought long and hard and replayed what I saw in previous seasons. Upon doing so I realized that Kessel enables offense for his whole line. He is not strong defensively but is Bozak? JVR? Lupul?

I would sooner trade JVR for that 5th OA pick and Semin than Kessel.

On the outs for me...

Bozak
Lupul
JVR
Polak
Robidas

Savings: 18million aprox.

The problem here is that most of those players aren't worth anything and won't command much/any return. Lupul and Robidas have negative value at the moment. Polak is probably worth a 2nd round pick. Same goes for Bozak. JVR is the only one worth anything substantial. So you trade away half of the fringe players on the team and where does that leave us? Essentially where we were a few years back. Kessel and Phaneuf are still our core; our 'best' players; and they aren't getting any younger.

I can't understand the logic in keeping either of them around. If the motivation is the move them next summer then I can begin to see your rationale but aside from that it's completely asinine.

Moving out Polak and Robidas serves no purpose. They are average players at best and won't bring anything back. How does that help the rebuild? It doesn't move out our best players, allowing us to sink in the standings; and it doesn't provide us with young assets/draft picks.

If Toronto follows this strategy it would severely test my limits as a fan.

 

[thewave]

The problem here is that most of those players aren't worth anything and won't command much/any return. Lupul and Robidas have negative value at the moment. Polak is probably worth a 2nd round pick. Same goes for Bozak. JVR is the only one worth anything substantial. So you trade away half of the fringe players on the team and where does that leave us? Essentially where we were a few years back. Kessel and Phaneuf are still our core; our 'best' players; and they aren't getting any younger.

I can't understand the logic in keeping either of them around. If the motivation is the move them next summer then I can begin to see your rationale but aside from that it's completely asinine.

Moving out Polak and Robidas serves no purpose. They are average players at best and won't bring anything back. How does that help the rebuild? It doesn't move out our best players, allowing us to sink in the standings; and it doesn't provide us with young assets/draft picks.

If Toronto follows this strategy it would severely test my limits as a fan.

I would trade both down the line or now if the price is right. I just look at some of this talk like Dion for a mid 1st and Kessel for a top 10 and salary dump and the deals are just not good.

Bozak is not good defensively and is not a 1C, far from it.

JVR only really became anything under Kessel.

Lupul was in shambles, put with Kessel and PPG and an all star.

Is this coincidence? Perhaps Kessel can bring Kadri into the 60pt range. Perhaps he can enable Nylander to get a good jump. Maybe Kessel is a stealth enabler of talent, elevating those he comes in contact with. If this is true letting him go for under market value could be a crucial mistake.

 

[yubbers]

Na. He does more bad than good remember?

 

[Hunter74]

I really wonder what kind of impact Babcock will have on the team.

Since Kessel has been a Leaf the offense has been designed specifically for his strengths. Even the PP revolves around Kessel getting his wrist shot off. This system imo did not help many of the other offensive players on the team and put way to much pressure on one guy.

I would like to see a system in place that doesn't revolve around one player. Something more team orientated. Kessel's natural ability will still shine through no matter what system is in place. If Kessel is motivated or mentally in the zone.

Still if price is right ship everyone out.

 

[thewave]

I really wonder what kind of impact Babcock will have on the team.

Since Kessel has been a Leaf the offense has been designed specifically for his strengths. Even the PP revolves around Kessel getting his wrist shot off. This system imo did not help many of the other offensive players on the team and put way to much pressure on one guy.

I would like to see a system in place that doesn't revolve around one player. Something more team orientated. Kessel's natural ability will still shine through no matter what system is in place. If Kessel is motivated or mentally in the zone.

Still if price is right ship everyone out.

They need a Franson or better on the point while Kessel is out there and a net presence guy like Franzen was for the Wings.

It's math. A talented net guy causes havoc and often draws two if they are perceived as a threat. A point shot guy requires good coverage. This frees Kessel or opens one of the other two positions up. They can't cover up on all fronts. Bozak and JVR tbh require less coverage than Kessel. No Franson on the point to get shots through to the net makes it even easier.

This teams not built well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The price for Phaneuf should be good. Petry who is a dedicated 2nd pairing defenseman is making 5.5M

Phaneuf can play both sides and can play top pairing for 7M.

 

[thewave]

The price for Phaneuf should be good. Petry who is a dedicated 2nd pairing defenseman is making 5.5M

Phaneuf can play both sides and can play top pairing for 7M.

Dions contract now looks to be appropriate for sure.

 

[Hunter74]

The price for Phaneuf should be good. Petry who is a dedicated 2nd pairing defenseman is making 5.5M

Phaneuf can play both sides and can play top pairing for 7M.

Few more contracts like that and it should help with his value. I hope.

Petry $5.5mil, Leddy and Boychuk in the same ball park now.

 

[080]

I would trade both down the line or now if the price is right. I just look at some of this talk like Dion for a mid 1st and Kessel for a top 10 and salary dump and the deals are just not good.

Bozak is not good defensively and is not a 1C, far from it.

JVR only really became anything under Kessel.

Lupul was in shambles, put with Kessel and PPG and an all star.

Is this coincidence? Perhaps Kessel can bring Kadri into the 60pt range. Perhaps he can enable Nylander to get a good jump. Maybe Kessel is a stealth enabler of talent, elevating those he comes in contact with. If this is true letting him go for under market value could be a crucial mistake.

But he made them that by having them play his brand of hockey i.e. no defense-blow-the-zone-piss-poor hockey. It's not a coincidence that they managed amazing numbers but were on the ice for an incredible amount of goals against.

Kadri and Kessel have been tried together and for whatever reason it doesn't seem to work.

I also don't know about Lupul being in shambles. He has been a consistent 20+ goal scorer his entire career. His 'big' year with Kessel he had 25 goals -- not even a career high.

No one is claiming that Kessel doesn't produce points. He just does it the wrong way. And even that point is irrelevant because Kessel is getting near 30 and we're rebuilding. Regardless of whether you think he's an All-Star; a garbage player; a great mentor; a **** mentor; none of that matters: he's getting old and we're getting young.

edit: Just on a note on Phaneuf's contract. The day Boychuk signed his contact, Phaneuf's became much more palatable. While I think he is a better defenseman than Phaneuf, I think they're very comparable and many will believe Phaneuf to be the superior player. The Petry contract just reinforces Phaneuf's value.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Dions contract now looks to be appropriate for sure.

Few more contracts like that and it should help with his value. I hope.

Petry $5.5mil, Leddy and Boychuk in the same ball park now.

Franson, Sekera, and Green are all getting 5-6M each...so yep lol.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I'm sick of hearing their names being associated with the great Leafs organization's. Just get them out of here.

 

[senor martinez]

I'm sick of hearing their names being associated with the great Leafs organization's. Just get them out of here.

Me too... just remember that last season they played games with.

It's pretty remarkable how some of these "players" managed to ruin their careers in some way.... not showing the heart and soul and not enjoying and respecting the game and maple leafs organization enough. Also said some stupid things... I can't see them playing for the toronto maple leafs anymore.

 

[senor martinez]

I'm with this feeling also. In reality trade them both it will help the rebuild speed up. At the end of the day if we can't get value for either I would hold onto them both for another season or atleast till the deadline.

Cause they are such great examples for our young rising players.

 

[Hunter74]

Cause they are such great examples for our young rising players.

Babcock is lead dog now. Everyone toes the line or they are out of here or so we hope will happen.

Our lack of accountability might of been stemming from the front office. Now that the front office is sending a new message of accountability I hope it trickles all the way down the organization.

 

[deletethis]

What can lead dog Babcock do if a star forward(s) refuses to participate in a new type of break out scheme? What can Babcock do if his team collectively refuses to salute its unmistakably partisan home crowd as some sort of misguided protest? What if some of Babcock's players continue worry more about social media than preparation for their next game? What if any of his star players take 5 seconds to skate back to the bench with his head down, while the puck is already up for contention in the defensive zone? What happens when Babcock asks his players to come to an optional skate to work on some details and few of them show up?

Answer: nothing. Babcock can't teach professionalism to players who aren't prepared to behave like professionals.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What can lead dog Babcock do if a star forward(s) refuses to participate in a new type of break out scheme? What can Babcock do if his team collectively refuses to salute its unmistakably partisan home crowd as some sort of misguided protest? What if some of Babcock's players continue worry more about social media than preparation for their next game? What if any of his star players take 5 seconds to skate back to the bench with his head down, while the puck is already up for contention in the defensive zone? What happens when Babcock asks his players to come to an optional skate to work on some details and few of them show up?

Answer: nothing. Babcock can't teach professionalism to players who aren't prepared to behave like professionals.

He won't hesitate to have them sit in the press box if their performance is underwhelming. $4 million man Stephen Weiss was a healthy scratch quite a bit.