Do we already have a potential future Stanley Cup core with Nick & Cole? + Poll Question
- Thread starter Tetragrammaton
- Start date
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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It’s a good start but we’re not there yet. Add a Bedard? Then we can talk…
Right now I see one potential superstar. That’s not enough.
Right now I see one potential superstar. That’s not enough.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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Excellent point. We had two up and coming superstars to go with a few other star players.
One big difference of course was the coaching which was putrid… otherwise I think we actually might’ve been able to win something.
And… we’re not there yet. Even assuming CC is on par with say… Price, who’s our Subban? Suzuki? Then who matches with Max, Markov, Galchenyuk, Gallagher? We’ve got a long way to go. Some of our prospects will hopefully overachieve but some won’t pan out. We’ve got a ways to go.
And even if we assemble a great team, we’re going to need a goalie. Primeau? Maybe…
before going off the deep end and thinking that other fanbases have invaded your poll why not actually do the work and look at who voted no? you set it to show who voted.
ill help, I looked at 6 of the 18 rows of votes. I got 59 Habs fans who voted no which is one more vote then those who voted yes., 2 profiles that were hidden and 1 Sens fan. If I already got that many Habs fans voting after only doing 6 out of 18 row that basically means your "other fanbases voting" card is hereby rejected.
Thanks for allowing me to do this to show me that I don't have a life.
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I'd say we need 7 "core" players, not all of whom have to be superstars but who collectively do the job better than their opponents overall.
A. Three first line forwards, at least two of which are recognized stars, plus
One strong second line player who can make that line dangerous (i.e. could be a first liner on another team)
OR
Spread those 4 guys over two lines, each with good complementary 3rd wheels so that there is the equivalent of "two first lines" eating up 38-40 minutes per game.
B. a legit first pair of defencemen, at least one of which stands out offensively
OR
Spread them over two pairs, each with a good complementary second pair guy, so that one of the studs is tilting the ice 48-50 minutes per game
C. an above average goalie that has the confidence of his team's core skaters and rarely lets his team down or is the reason for a loss.
So where are we?
Using this framework, we POTENTIALLY have 4 of the 7 needed players : Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Slafkovsky - they'll need to develop but why shouldn't they?
Likely our 2023 draft with two maybe three first round picks will yield us one more strong forward (or one of Mesar or Beck busts out and hits that level? - long shot)
Hopefully Mailloux or Barron (or Hutson?) can be the offensive D
Most iffy of the lot: either Primeau or Dobes (or Dichow?) becomes that anchor goalie - could happen but also could not happen
So no, we do not have the needed core yet, but there is a chance we can get there organically.
GREAT NEWS:
If we can't get our 7 guys from our current 72 man reserve list plus the upcoming draft, we will have about $22,000,000 of free cap space starting in 2024-25 to fill at least two holes with big star players through either free agency or trade. Best case scenario, we need one $9,000,000 player and we can then go get two more $5,000,000 guys to strongly complement the core.
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Off-topic maybe, but Grant McCagg just came out with his 2023 draft list and he has Fantilli over Bedard. Yep, you read Wright.
Say what you want about Grant, but he has made calls like these before, and at times been borne out in the actual draft. Jones, Patrick, Wright, Byfield all went lower than consensus early ranking, but in accordance with
Grant's ranking.
Will we all soon need new memes that rhyme with Fantilli?
- Jun 24, 2012
- 85,233
- 156,119
There is no indication that Edmundson’s game has deteriorated. He doesn’t belong in any conversation that includes AHLzner or Gill.
He’s played on average, close to 70 games per season in pre-Covid years. The main concern has been his injuries, limiting him to 24 games last season and missing the start of this season.
If there is any reason to trade him, it would have to come from an assessment based on the risk of injury reoccurrence.
He’s a reliable vet on a team that needs physicality however, if there are suitors who are prepared to overpay, Hughes has to consider his options.
- Jun 24, 2012
- 85,233
- 156,119
Covid divisions and all, it was quite literally … a sham run.
Yes he gots all the tools and toolbox, but pretty sure you watched enough hockey to know it's not the first time a player has got all the tools and toolbox and do not suceed.
Dahlin only start to look like it...and he was pretty much supposed to be generational talent level from day 1.
Ghule sure look good. But I would be careful before labeling him Elite. If it took 2-3 years for a Dahlin to reach is level...I simply think it's normal for a Guhle to take 3-5 years to get there...if he get there.
Mailloux is nice. Just like Nate the Gr8 was. So much can happen btw OHL and NHL
How can you put Mailloux/Barron in the discussion for a top 15D in the league or #1D in the league ? Almost every team have 1-2-3 prospect like that. Most of them, fail. Our prospect wont be different.
How many top 15D/Future top 15D in the league made it to UFA in their prime ?
Counting for that to happen is wishfull thinkind. Unless HuGo already have talk with those kind of player that will become UFA in 2-3-4 years (I know it's illegal...but we aint stupid either...those talk do happen).
Our best bet in order : Guhle, UFA, other prospect.
With that said, I don't know how someone can answer the question of the thread with a confident yes...let alone multiple cup.
Actually I voted No because I do not believe we have enough core pieces yet. It's possible to get them with good management, or at least enough to compete for the Cup, which I would consider at least multiple Conference finals or one Stanley Cup Final plus two more Final Eight appearances.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 78,575
- 49,963
Well, I don't think we'll finish last this year so that will probably not be too much of a concern for us. From what I understand, it's a deeper draft so hopefully we get a top ten or something like that. We just need to continue accumulating talent.
Beer and Chips
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2018
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I think there is 60% chance Habs own draft pick is a top 10, and a 15% chance Florida's pick is top 10.
I agree with you that the chances of the Habs picking 1 or 2 are quite low.
Nick and Cole are not what we call generational talent. They are very talented, engaged and motivated, but far away from the Crosby's and McDavid's. This team lacks such a player. Dach is turning it out around, so there is promise. Perhaps, Slaf can develop into the next star. The potential is there, but none will outshine Matthews, Ovy, McDavid or Crosby.
Only two of them have a Cup and Ovechkin took 14 years to win one. You don't need a generational player to win a Cup.
That's an excuse for bad management.
Anyway, most teams that won the Cup in the Cap era did not have a generational player. If anything, it could make it harder because you hamstring your team with huge contracts.
Tetragrammaton
Registered User
- Mar 17, 2022
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There are definitely some great pieces already in place.
Generational players are nice to get but that doesn't guarantee anything.
More pieces are coming soon which is exciting.
Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf, Guhle are upper tier young players/prospects.
If the 2019 draft was redone knowing what we know now I think Caufield is a top 3 pick easily.
Generational players are nice to get but that doesn't guarantee anything.
More pieces are coming soon which is exciting.
Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf, Guhle are upper tier young players/prospects.
If the 2019 draft was redone knowing what we know now I think Caufield is a top 3 pick easily.
I agree, you just need a strong foundational team.
We have Suzuki and Caufield who while not elite superstars, they have elite traits and who knows, maybe they’ll be those stars you need to be a contender.
A generational player, or at least a superstar would be nice but the cap era, not too many examples as you’ve stated of them leading their team to a cup.
Our defence I see potential, but right now it’s hard to see. However, I think Guhle is going to be our anchor on the blue line and key to our core.
We need augmenting in all areas, but when thinking future core with our current youth, goaltending is the biggest red flag to me. I really don’t think Primeau is going to be the guy. I like both Dobes and Dichow though.
The better today's core is, the worse tomorrow's 2023 pick will be. What to do....?
It's been 15 years since the Habs actually built through the draft. In particular, the last dozen years have been a series of bandaid moves to patch up the gaping hole in our prospect pool. We didn't build a thing; we flapped around with trades & UFAs to keep from sinking.
Cole Caufield was the first bullseye our scouts hit since Gallagher. Guhle looks like another. Contenders are built by the scouting staff. That's the foundation of every Cup winning team and the path we need to follow if we expect to turn this team into a contender. Superior scouting combined with a little luck. Slafkovsky, Beck, Mesar, etc. need to better than most of their class; if not, we're not gaining ground on the competition.
And for those wondering about development, yeah, it's also crucial. But there's more of a defined formula for good development than good scouting. Development requires you to see who the kid is. Scouting requires you to find the kid and then predict what he may become.
Short answer: In five years the Habs will be as good or mediocre as its scouting staff. Even if Nick, Cole, and Kaiden remain here for the next decade, the weight of success will be equally distributed onto current teenagers we've just drafted, or will in the next year or two. If those draftees are superior, the team will be.
It's been 15 years since the Habs actually built through the draft. In particular, the last dozen years have been a series of bandaid moves to patch up the gaping hole in our prospect pool. We didn't build a thing; we flapped around with trades & UFAs to keep from sinking.
Cole Caufield was the first bullseye our scouts hit since Gallagher. Guhle looks like another. Contenders are built by the scouting staff. That's the foundation of every Cup winning team and the path we need to follow if we expect to turn this team into a contender. Superior scouting combined with a little luck. Slafkovsky, Beck, Mesar, etc. need to better than most of their class; if not, we're not gaining ground on the competition.
And for those wondering about development, yeah, it's also crucial. But there's more of a defined formula for good development than good scouting. Development requires you to see who the kid is. Scouting requires you to find the kid and then predict what he may become.
Short answer: In five years the Habs will be as good or mediocre as its scouting staff. Even if Nick, Cole, and Kaiden remain here for the next decade, the weight of success will be equally distributed onto current teenagers we've just drafted, or will in the next year or two. If those draftees are superior, the team will be.
Anardil
Registered User
I voted no because the team is still missing an elite level 'skater'. By skater I mean a position other than goalie. Just look at the list of recent champs. As nice as Suzuki, Caufield and Guhle have shown this season, they are not MacKinnon, Makar level players.
It is the main reason why I am fully aboard the tank bandwagon this season. This team has been missing the truly franchise defining building block since the dynasty ended over forty years ago.
It is the main reason why I am fully aboard the tank bandwagon this season. This team has been missing the truly franchise defining building block since the dynasty ended over forty years ago.
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