Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

[AchtzehnBaby]

I am making my return today to the HF boards. I had to take a leave of absence due to work related issues. They have not been solved but I decided I could no longer watch and suffer in silence.

I had hoped our team would had a better year this year but it was a typical year and usual story. It's a good thing that we got rid of that Dorion and the team cheerleader DJ Smith.


You know I was thinking about this and It crossed my mind what's wrong with this team. We have a lot of the pieces and we should be competing.

Bringing JM back was a smart move but obviously he can't work miracles overnight.

We do have a better defense and for the most part we have three good lines. However, it seems like only two lines are ever healthy.

So I asked myself just like everyone else is asking. Is this a team culture thing. I started to consider that this could be the issue. It's a logical and rational answer to the problems. However, after really thinking about it, I think it's just the easiest scapegoat for this team.

I think if there's one thing we've seen is that this team plays for each other and that's a positive culture. I think everyone supports each other in a really positive fashion in. Everyone wants the best from each other and somewhat pushes each other to be better. They seem to lift each other up when one is down and have that next man up mentality. I am not going to play into the culture card. These guys are way too young and their attitudes are just being shaped.


I must say I am tired of making excuses for them but I am going to make some excuses but I also am going to make some suggestions to fix those excuses.

We had master motivator and professional cheerleader. DJ Smith, their pee-wee hockey coach who was definitely coaching above his skill set and while motivating people works when you need to get over hump. It's not a long-term solution to guys who are new to the league and need to be developed in many different areas of their professional career. We all knew he was the wrong guy to get this team to the next level. So nobody's debating that. I think where some of the problem was is they lost their favorite teacher and some guys may have pouted and some guys actually were probably upset that we ended up back in the same position of another season killed before it ever got started. The next coach we bring in needs to be an experienced coach that has the right characteristics to take this team to the next level and is an ex and nose and a teacher guy. We need the next JM or the next Brian Murray or whoever to take this to and get them into the playoffs and competing every year for the cup.

P.D. oh my god, we waited for this guy to get fired for so long. Then he starts making some desperate moves at the end. That kind of give you some hope because he was trying a couple moves worked out and the rest did it. He knew the writing was on the wall and he did everything he could do to save his behind. The scary part is is that if you wasn't fired the way he had constructed this roster, he did not have much left to work with or assets. Good riddance.

I don't know if Staios Is the answer either as he is a rookie GM and he is going to get fleeced then taught lessons of the hard way. We don't know if he has great hockey sense or not or whatever he seems to be sharper than Dorion was but only time will tell. I think however he's got to pick either GM or President not both. That's just my two cents on it.

I actually would have preferred to see him be a little busier on trade deadline day getting rid of some of the dead weight, but at the end of the day how many people are lining up for one of the last place teams misfits. I can't imagine there were many calls for our fourth liners.


Now comes the time when nobody's got anything left to lose and everyone in the league knows we are the bottom feeders. So the win's should start piling up now when they're meaningless and screw our draft position. I would like to see this change. Actually. There's none of this playing for next year junk that we go through every year. This year is dead and buried. We're just going through the emotions of finishing the season off. If we finish the season without a loss in regulation, it won't mean a thing next year. Not a single thing. What will mean a lot is if we draft higher. How about a nice top draft pick? We can either use that too. Turn into a good player or trade for a useful peace on this roster.

So I don't believe there is a culture problem here. But what there was was a culture of wrong decisions and mismanagement by the GM and the coach. Bringing in the wrong players and making cheap moves at every turn. We filled this organization with whatever we could nickel and dime and put together on a shoestring budget and cried about mediocrity because we had a poor owner. That whole mentality has ran through the entire organization from top to bottom and I'm sure players know it as well too. So yes, there is maybe a bit of a culture issue, but the culture of losing and making excuses is probably the culture issue we are having versus the players. Although, if you want to ask if there's a culture problem among the players, well, they're actually is a culture problem among the players that we have a bunch of guys who probably should not be playing in the NHL. If they belong in the NHL and they're so great, why are we at the bottom of the standings? We have a lot of driftwood on this team or dead weight or whatever you want to call it or players who are just not a good match for us.

We also have brought in some players who were bad fits and bad signings. We know who they are or at least I think I do and we got a whole summer to call them out and make changes. We've been running with the same group of these players for too long and getting the same result. We're not going into a new rebuild or a retooling. We're getting rid of the dead weight. These are guys who are not part of the core and we're not part of the long-term plan and are replaceable. That being said, they're also is some players on this team that were looked as part of the solution but are no longer that and they need to be sent packing as well too.

This roster is full of holes. It's been constructed by a madman. We have a core of good pieces and we do not have the proper supporting cast to help them excel. We basically have too many of the same type of player. Now is the time to start bringing in specific type of players and character players and certain skilled players that we need. It's very evident now of what we're lacking where before we were lacking everything. We need a real fourth line. We need more grit. We need veteran help. We need a real third pairing defense. We have what feels like a good defense but there is a lack of stay-at-home defense first mentality and players willing to play physical. We also are asking players to play physical that is not in their DNA. Guy's are trying to play bigger than their size and while they're doing their best trying to do it, it is not who they are. We keep trying to make do with what we have and what we need to be doing is get what we actually need. It's hard to fill out a roster with all of your needs exactly, but that's where we're at right now. That's where we're failing. It is not going to happen overnight. People are not going to trade for these key pieces because we're getting to the point where these are the type of players that every team need. We're going to have to give up some good players to get some better players. It's a good thing that we have some really good assets and maybe in abundance of a certain type of player that we probably could use as an asset to fill another hole.

I am not even going to comment on the goaltending situation at all. Save that rank for a whole other day.

We survived
Our Harold Ballard of the Senators and the crazy GM and at the end of the day we still have a really good core. All is not lost and the sky is not falling. We can't right the wrongs overnight. All I know is we are not going to have to wait as long as the Maple leaf's to win a Stanley Cup.

Sorry for the super long post but I have not had a chance to express my feelings about the Senators to anybody here in L.A.

Welcome back!

Were you at the game in LA?

This team still needs tweaking... but mostly goaltending.

 

[Beech]

Id trade Chabot and take on shorter term contract back.

so would all of us. The question is; is there a team out there that will do that trade???

 

[SpezDispenser]

There's a lot to be mad about, but then there's players like Pinto and Greig - especially Pinto who have elevated their game to the point of forcing themselves into the conversations for being in the top 6 next year and I start to feel much better about the future.

Pinto really encapsulates everything we need on our team - so if you talk team culture, you can't look past the "newer" guys on the team that seem to bleed commitment to details. Zub is one as well, Sanderson too.

 

[PlayOn]

Letang had a Cup at 24 and was a massive part of it

But my post wasn’t talking about winning cups. It was about perspective. At 24, was Letang the voice of reason in the locker room? Probably not. They had guys like Gonchar, Kunitz, Dupuis etc for leadership. Even Crosby was chastised endlessly for being “whiney” on the ice during his first what, 5 seasons? Maybe longer. Funny how with age, that changed.

Brady doesn’t need to be perfect or have it all figured out to be a great leader. What he needs is people around him that balance him out and help him.

 

[Micklebot]

Interesting, I wonder what their criteria is for true Stars.

 

[Icelevel]

Who knows. But I see a devolution of these message boards lately. I think we need better gatekeeping. Can we build a wall?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Interesting, I wonder what their criteria is for true Stars.

Players using True branded equipment?

 

[Dionysus]

Culture is a very difficult thing to critique.

What we can see is a young team that plays emotionally and has not found its identity. Has great highs, but even lower lows, which they have trouble pulling out of.

They have been losing games since they entered the league. That is the "culture"

To develop a new culture this group will need to start playing the same way game after game, and be rewarded with wins. Habits, consistency, and winning. Culture is created and re-enforced over time by a group doing the same things over and over again. Eventually the teams confidence in itself helps create a strong belief that leads to wins rather than the shaky self-doubt this team currently displays.

Winning is what will create the consistency we are looking for. A culture of winning can be helped along and augmented, but it is also a natural process.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Culture and attitude can be adjusted with the right type of coaching, that’s why I am praying we are gonna hire Berube or wait out Carolina to fire Rod the Bod. Please no to the rookie AHL coach, PLEASE!!!!

 

[Alex1234]

But my post wasn’t talking about winning cups. It was about perspective. At 24, was Letang the voice of reason in the locker room? Probably not. They had guys like Gonchar, Kunitz, Dupuis etc for leadership. Even Crosby was chastised endlessly for being “whiney” on the ice during his first what, 5 seasons? Maybe longer. Funny how with age, that changed.

Brady doesn’t need to be perfect or have it all figured out to be a great leader. What he needs is people around him that balance him out and help him.

Wich contract do we get rid of to bring the Gonchar and Kunitz of todays
Don't tell me Branstromm and Kelly lol that's not bringing talent

 

[ottawagm]

Our culture is losing. We need to bring in some winners.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I feel that Staois who was a player for a long time in the NHL, along with Dave Poulin another long-time player will figure out the heartbeat of this team. Another HUGE factor is having our beloved Alfie on the bench day in and day out. He will see what makes the team click or in this case, not click. I think we will see some unexpected moves of this core as much as we don't want to.

I mean, Staios literally played for loser organizations for his entite career

 

[PlayOn]

Wich contract do we get rid of to bring the Gonchar and Kunitz of todays
Don't tell me Branstromm and Kelly lol that's not bringing talent

They’ve got some extra money to work with if Norris is LTIR’d, and I’m not opposed to trading a core piece if it’s a good deal.

This team isn’t about to win a cup next year. Just worry about making the playoffs and then you can continue to tweak.

 

[Alex1234]

They’ve got some extra money to work with if Norris is LTIR’d, and I’m not opposed to trading a core piece if it’s a good deal.

This team isn’t about to win a cup next year. Just worry about making the playoffs and then you can continue to tweak.

I think they need to move more than one core

 

[PlayOn]

I think they need to move more than one core

I think we’re another year away from that. I think you’re getting into Buffalo territory of rebuilding the rebuild at that point, and personally I’d rather avoid that.

 

[Adrianopolous]

This is rock bottom

 

[Larionov]

This is rock bottom

Oh I think you'll be surprised how much further this team can fall...

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

It doesn't matter what the reasoning is, the truth is that this group just doesn't work. Trying to think about why that is, is a waste of time. We're going to need to start swapping out some names this offseason, because these guys simply don't work together.

 

[Karl Prime]

I do want to defend the usage of the long-term deal coming out of ELC. There isn't a problem with it as I see, it's mostly top players that get locked up for 6-8 years after their ELC. McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl, Marner, J. Hughes, Q. Hughes, MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Pastrnak, Barkov, Gaudreau, Scheifele, Hischier, Karlsson, etc.

Ottawa didn't give out long expensive deals to just anybody - they gave it to Chabot, White, Tkachuk, Stutzle, Norris, Batherson, and Sanderson. White didn't work out - but did anyone project that he would be a 4th liner at best now after his good 18-19 season? Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, and Chabot are very good players, and there is no question any team would want Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Sanderson at their pricces. Chabot may have been overpaid but he was the horse of the team, and I think some of his problems the last few years have come from being overplayed and over-relied upon. Batherson is fairly valued for a player of his production. Was it a mistake to sign Norris to that number? Maybe. I think Dorion was on a victory lap that he nabbed a guy who put up 35 goals for him that he "stole" from SJ. Of course Norris' injury problems have hurt him a lot since that contract was signed.

 

[Answer]

This is rock bottom

Is it actually?

Do you remember the losing streak we went through last year where we got completely annihilated by Chicago, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton, completely falling out of the playoff race

 

[SensHulk]

Sens can’t even play more desperate than the 30th and 31st teams while they themselves are mired in a losing streak. I’m starting to question the leadership group.

 

[Karl Prime]

Nameless, faceless. Now no need to give some 8 x Y to some guy who is in year 2 of his ELC and spent year 1 in college and 9 games in the AHL.

We should, as fans, see the players as commodities. Ones that can be moved to improve the team.

Tkachuk, Sanderson, Stuzzle, Greig, Pinto.. Lego pieces.. That is it. Move them on, when needed. do not give them insane contracts. DO not market around them, but around the team.

When in the flying hell has anything happened even remotely close to what you suggest in that first sentence?

How are you improving the team by trading Tkachuk, Stutzle, and Sanderson, if the goal is winning next season? Or are you suggesting trading them for multiple 1sts each and kicking the can down the road? You act like great players in the league shouldn't be given contracts they are worth. Paying those three around 24 million combined is not insane, and they are not at their peaks yet. The NHL as a whole is correct for paying stars good money when they are in their 20s instead of doing it in their 30s. The league would be worse off if every team had a Pujols contract.

Anyway, this whole idea about building around stars being bad is just stupid. Every Cup team has the stars they build around - Crosby, Malkin, and Letang, Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Kuznetsov, Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar, Kucherov, Stamkos, and Hedman, Kane, Toews, and Keith. Should all those fanbases just have treated those guys like random employees when they helped bring their teams Cups, and in three of those cases, multiple? Kaprizov hasn't and likely won't bring a Cup to Minnesota, trade him immediately! (despite being the first face of the franchise they've ever had)

It's a GM's job to have the ability to eliminate emotions when evaluating a team and making roster decisions. It's not the job of a fan. Or should you go to the Sharks board and tell them they have no reason for being upset that Hertl got traded to Vegas?

And as for your point about soccer and its stars, that's really not true. The impact of Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi leaving Barca was enormous and is still felt. When Figo left Barca for Real Madrid he was called Judas. Fans will rain down hell if a player betrays their team. I'd contest that soccer fans care about their teams star player more than hockey fans do, due to the nature of league structure and the fact that every elite player is at a high end team that's contending for league and UCL titles every year, so the pressure to perform is very high from the fans.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Is it actually?

Do you remember the losing streak we went through last year where we got completely annihilated by Chicago, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton, completely falling out of the playoff race

I was in attendance for two of those games so yes.

I'll dm anyone with proof that I was there

 

[Tuna99]

I was in attendance for two of those games so yes.

I'll dm anyone with proof that I was there

Could of used you in net

 

[Tuna99]

The post game they were going hard on “the Sens don’t have enough experience it’s really all they are missing”

But showing up for work, working as hard as you can, not just going through the motions but actually really caring - these are all things a day 1 rookie can do and the Sens got beat by a team that just tried harder last night

The Sens play like rich kids