Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

[HabsCode]

Interesting, I wonder what their criteria is for true Stars.

2 true stars in Montreal? Wtf are they lmao? Aint no 2 true stars playing for my pathetic Habs. Suzuki is good but that is about it.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Feel like we need to start over with Sanderson, Stutzle, Zub, Pinto, Greig, Giroux.

Build the culture and these guys.

Attach Chabot to one of Brady or Batherson in a trade if need be.

Would be block buster trades and we'd get a lot of new blood and talent. Would change everything about this team.

 

[Alex1234]

It doesn't matter what the reasoning is, the truth is that this group just doesn't work. Trying to think about why that is, is a waste of time. We're going to need to start swapping out some names this offseason, because these guys simply don't work together.

Exactly

 

[Sting]

Feel like we need to start over with Sanderson, Stutzle, Zub, Pinto, Greig, Giroux.

Build the culture and these guys.

Attach Chabot to one of Brady or Batherson in a trade if need be.

Would be block buster trades and we'd get a lot of new blood and talent. Would change everything about this team.

Completely agree. It's abundantly clear the tandem of Chabot and Tkachuk are not going to get us anywhere.

I like Batherson but I think he's a very flawed player. At times he looks like he'd rather be in a shinny league or somewhere that he can just try to dangle or make pretty plays all game.

 

[JD1]

Do you have a link to what qualifies as a "star" or "star season" ?

The quick reaction to that graphic is our goaltending killed us

 

[Alex1234]

Good players individually
Not a good team
In fact a bad team
Bottom 5 again
Behind Mtl Ari Buf lol

 

[Micklebot]

Do you have a link to what qualifies as a "star" or "star season" ?

The quick reaction to that graphic is our goaltending killed us

I asked something similar, MTL is listed as having 2, maybe Suzuki and Caufield?

If that's the case, for us it's probably Tkachuk, Stü, Giroux, then two of Bath, Norris, Sanderson, Chabot and Chychrun.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Completely agree. It's abundantly clear the tandem of Chabot and Tkachuk are not going to get us anywhere.

I like Batherson but I think he's a very flawed player. At times he looks like he'd rather be in a shinny league or somewhere that he can just try to dangle or make pretty plays all game.

Batherson is so tough.

The contract is one you win a cup with.

But how he plays is not.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Batherson is so tough.

The contract is one you win a cup with.

But how he plays is not.

Then his contract isn't that amazing. I'd say the contract is pretty accurate for his value.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Then his contract isn't that amazing. I'd say the contract is pretty accurate for his value.

Yea but when he's on he's like the best player on the team. 8+ mill value.

When he's off he's infuriating.

You basically have to bet that he will be on during the playoffs instead of actively trying to lose you the game.

What a player.

 

[JD1]

I asked something similar, MTL is listed as having 2, maybe Suzuki and Caufield?

If that's the case, for us it's probably Tkachuk, Stü, Giroux, then two of Bath, Norris, Sanderson, Chabot and Chychrun.

Ya but then it is also had "having star years" and that confuses me.

Regardless, some dude has a model based on unknown metrics but that points to us having goalie issues.

That's kinda like why the grade 5 math teacher wants you to show your work

 

[Micklebot]

Ya but then it is also had "having star years" and that confuses me.

Regardless, some dude has a model based on unknown metrics but that points to us having goalie issues.

That's kinda like why the grade 5 math teacher wants you to show your work

True star means they meet the threshold (whatever it is) year after year, star season means they are doing so this year, so for MTL add Matheson I guess.

My guess is star means top ~20% in their position by whatever metric they are use based on the total number of stars.

 

[Frank JT]

Hello Sens fans.
I'm a Habs fan and reading this post.

If I read you well, the Senators would need to find a good top4 RHD, a #1 goaltender, and maybe a physical PK specialist to play on the 3 or 4rth line.

What would you think of the idea to trade for Soros (G) this summer, and David Savard (Mtl, good défensive D with leadership), draft a young RHD with your first round pick (ex.: Leshunov, Pareck, Jiricek), or with the other R1 (Mews, EJ Emery)?

 

[mysens]

It just seems fishy that team chemistry and team culture have become a problem ever since Chychrun entered the picture. I do not recall on this board anyone mentioning team culture problems.

 

[Beech]

It just seems fishy that team chemistry and team culture have become a problem ever since Chychrun entered the picture. I do not recall on this board anyone mentioning team culture problems.

in March of 2023, we were still full of hope.

the 2021 start of FYOUS was only 1.5 seasons back and the feeling was; we are still somewhat on schedule.

Melnyk had been gone for 1 year, the team sale seemed eminent. The feeling was;;; Okay, we are out of the mess.

Now we are 3 seasons past FYOUS.. the team is worst than they were last year. A new owner, a new GM, a new coach, a new goalie, a one year older "core group".. and we are worse.

Chychrun is not the problem. He had the misfortune of being the "last straw".

 

[redbrick98]

Ya but then it is also had "having star years" and that confuses me.

Regardless, some dude has a model based on unknown metrics but that points to us having goalie issues.

That's kinda like why the grade 5 math teacher wants you to show your work

Batherson & Chabot are part of the culture problem with this organization

They got paid

Why would they try harder, knowing their salaries are fully guaranteed,

Playing in the playoffs doesn't provide more $$ to them, no additional motivation or desire

These are players who have been conditioned thru last 6 years that losing is Okay

No need to go to playoffs when they can start their vacation early and go to a European villa

 

[Beech]

When in the flying hell has anything happened even remotely close to what you suggest in that first sentence?

How are you improving the team by trading Tkachuk, Stutzle, and Sanderson, if the goal is winning next season? Or are you suggesting trading them for multiple 1sts each and kicking the can down the road? You act like great players in the league shouldn't be given contracts they are worth. Paying those three around 24 million combined is not insane, and they are not at their peaks yet. The NHL as a whole is correct for paying stars good money when they are in their 20s instead of doing it in their 30s. The league would be worse off if every team had a Pujols contract.

Anyway, this whole idea about building around stars being bad is just stupid. Every Cup team has the stars they build around - Crosby, Malkin, and Letang, Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Kuznetsov, Doughty, Quick, and Kopitar, Kucherov, Stamkos, and Hedman, Kane, Toews, and Keith. Should all those fanbases just have treated those guys like random employees when they helped bring their teams Cups, and in three of those cases, multiple? Kaprizov hasn't and likely won't bring a Cup to Minnesota, trade him immediately! (despite being the first face of the franchise they've ever had)

It's a GM's job to have the ability to eliminate emotions when evaluating a team and making roster decisions. It's not the job of a fan. Or should you go to the Sharks board and tell them they have no reason for being upset that Hertl got traded to Vegas?

And as for your point about soccer and its stars, that's really not true. The impact of Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi leaving Barca was enormous and is still felt. When Figo left Barca for Real Madrid he was called Judas. Fans will rain down hell if a player betrays their team. I'd contest that soccer fans care about their teams star player more than hockey fans do, due to the nature of league structure and the fact that every elite player is at a high end team that's contending for league and UCL titles every year, so the pressure to perform is very high from the fans.

need one small favor,

copy your post, save it on word or some other editor. Log in in March of 2025 and March of 2026.

gloat as needed, eat crow as needed.

Many posters on here, tend to have such short term memories.

and now a small question : Are the kids still alright? Marketing from 2018-2020.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yea but when he's on he's like the best player on the team. 8+ mill value.

When he's off he's infuriating.

You basically have to bet that he will be on during the playoffs instead of actively trying to lose you the game.

What a player.

I think Stuetzle is much more infuriating when he's off and that has been often this season.

 

[Crosside]

Batherson & Chabot are part of the culture problem with this organization

They got paid

Why would they try harder, knowing their salaries are fully guaranteed,

Playing in the playoffs doesn't provide more $$ to them, no additional motivation or desire

These are players who have been conditioned thru last 6 years that losing is Okay

No need to go to playoffs when they can start their vacation early and go to a European villa

Ok lol you think ju

Batherson & Chabot are part of the culture problem with this organization

They got paid

Why would they try harder, knowing their salaries are fully guaranteed,

Playing in the playoffs doesn't provide more $$ to them, no additional motivation or desire

These are players who have been conditioned thru last 6 years that losing is Okay

No need to go to playoffs when they can start their vacation early and go to a European villa

ok lol you think just this two have be paid

 

[ijif]

So everyone is aware, Bader uses points per game to classify players. This a problem, but to him, a star is a forward that scores 0.7 PPG or a defender that scores 0.45 PPG. To be a career star, you must player 200 or more games.

I don’t like to critique something based on one example, but based on the above, he would be committed to the idea that DeAngelo is a star player.

In other words, he does not account for defensive impact.

 

[Micklebot]

So everyone is aware, Bader uses points per game to classify players. This a problem, but to him, a star is a forward that scores 0.7 PPG or a defender that scores 0.45 PPG. To be a career star, you must player 200 or more games.

I don’t like to critique something based on one example, but based on the above, he would be committed to the idea that DeAngelo is a star player.

In other words, he does not account for defensive impact.

It's certainly not perfect...

I would have expected him to use some sort all in one stat like WAR but for his purpose pts/g probably works fine

 

[ColinM]

Completely agree. It's abundantly clear the tandem of Chabot and Tkachuk are not going to get us anywhere.

I like Batherson but I think he's a very flawed player. At times he looks like he'd rather be in a shinny league or somewhere that he can just try to dangle or make pretty plays all game.

I feel the same way. Chabot and Tkachuk are nice players but if there was a one for one trade available where the contracts coming back were comparable, I think such a trade should be considered. If nothing else it would shake up the culture in the dressing room.

 

[ijif]

It's certainly not perfect...

I would have expected him to use some sort all in one stat like WAR but for his purpose pts/g probably works fine

I am guessing he does not use WAR because he would need to build his own WAR model, or he would need to use a model built by a different person. He might not like either option.

 

[lancepitlick]

I feel the same way. Chabot and Tkachuk are nice players but if there was a one for one trade available where the contracts coming back were comparable, I think such a trade should be considered. If nothing else it would shake up the culture in the dressing room.

I agree. They aren't bad, but I don't think they are transformative players and the same may even be true for Stutzle. If so then better to cut bait and retool, as much as that sucks. Eventually they'll want out anyways.

What would historical comparisons be? Personally I'd say like Dave Anderchuyck, Garry Galley, and maybe Alexei Zhamnov?
I'm terms of impact, not like for like players.

To me those were very good NHL players, but they aren't taking you to the promised land and they should not be paid like they are Ray Bourque, Sellane, and Modano.

 

[PlayOn]

On a team of 20 players, the core makes up 7. The best the team looked this season is when all 7 were in the line-up and taking up most of the minutes.

We are probably losing Norris to LTIR so likely down to six. I think the bigger issue than the core itself is presented in the depth - we don’t have it. This team always looks bad as soon as any significant injury hits, it’s been that way for years.

Given their roles, how many of these players actually provide any sort of value: Korpisalo, Forsberg, Kubalik, Kastelic, MacEwen, Hamonic? I’d say none.

Then you have players like Chychrun, Tarasenko and Brannstrom who are good but help you when you need a goal moreso than when you want to protect a lead. But isn’t that what the core is for? At best, they are/were miscast here.

Good complementary players to this core are Giroux, Zub, Joseph, JBD, Kelly, Greig. Ie players that play their role well and actually give us dimensions we need.

9 bad or miscast players on a roster is a huge issue, it’s almost half your roster on a given night. When healthy, less are playing and the others are playing less minutes so we look better. But imo it’s why we can’t survive injuries, why we can’t handle a down season for a core piece etc.

You might need to move a core piece to fix the depth but I think that’s the bigger issue than the core itself. So that’s where I’m starting before I bother worrying about what Tkachuk or Stützle are at their peak.