TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[The Blue Devil]

His NMC stops him from being assigned to the AHL. He has a modified NTC which allows him to be traded under certain conditions. I dont think Nonis has ever handed out a full NTC

I Know all of this, I was responding to someone who said that a NMC should be the breaking point on Phaneuf talks.

 

[yubbers]

I'll be very happy the day that contract gets signed, hopefully it's very soon.

I will sob uncontrollably

 

[DD03]

That's what I'm asking for. Canada4Gold and someone else (forgot the poster) keeps harping on the GA/60 minutes. That's not an accurate indication of his play.

Shots against, scoring chances against when Dion is on the ice is a better indicator of how he compares to the other d-man.

But the puck isn't going in the net when he's on the ice. Which means he's not getting scored on. You can't fault Dion because the forwards don't understand a proper break out.

People just keep moving the sticks and finding something else to use against Dion.

Face it, he's a great defenseman. And a top one in the NHL.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Can you provide stats on scoring chances & shots against when these D-Men are on the ice compared to Phaneuf? I'm sure that stat won't be in Phaneuf's favour.

I bet if you compare Franson, Rielly, Gunnarson's GA stats compared to those player's 2-5 d-men, the Leafs stats would be better for the most part. Phaneuf's GA stats are inflated by Bernier & Reimer's early play.

Phaneuf - 1.64
Franson - 2.68
Rielly - 3.74
Gunnar - 1.67
Gardiner - 1.61
Ranger - 2.09

Suter - 1.71
Brodin - 1.96
Spurgeon - 1.70
Scandella - 1.09

Pietrangelo - 2.34
Bouwmeester - 1.97
Shattenkirk - 2.26
Polak - 1.89

Chara - 2.03
Seidenberg - 2.03
Boychuk - 1.78
Krug - 2.01
Hamilton - 1.07

So besides Gunnar(who's often on with Phaneuf so obviously they'll have similar numbers), and Gardiner the other teams have better numbers and even then there are guys who have better numbers than Gunnar and Gardiner due to sheltered minutes against 3rd and 4th lines.

And yes I realize Gardiner has a better stat here, but many 2nd and 3rd pairing guys have better stats than the 1st pairing guys due to quality of competition.

A better stat to use than comparing the guys on the team is GA On/60, to GA Off/60. GA On numbers are 1st below followed by GA Off

Phaneuf - 1.64, 2.50
Suter - 1.71, 1.74
Pietrangelo - 2.34, 1.86
Chara - 2.03, 1.61
Subban - 2.26, 1.74
Keith - 2.48, 1.98
Weber - 2.71, 2.49

Except Suter where the difference is a measley 0.03 all the opther norris quality d-men have less goals scored against when they're off the ice than on.

Phaneuf has almost a full goal less when he's on the ice compared to off(it was a full goal less about 2 weeks ago). That's huge

 

[yubbers]

I don't always make it to the playoffs
But when I do, I make sure I'm out first round

Stay thirsty my friends

:p

 

[34]

Face it, he's a great defenseman. And a top one in the NHL.

Strongly disagree with this statement. He is not even close. If he wants $7M/season let him go anywhere else!

The last thing Toronto needs is another dead weight contract like Clarkson's. Trade Phaneuf now and move on.

A Captain leads by example, not self entitlement.

 

[Mindrust]

I don't always make it to the playoffs
But when I do, I make sure I'm out first round

Stay thirsty my friends

:p

Hah, I lol'd

 

[DD03]

Strongly disagree with this statement. He is not even close. If he wants $7M/season let him go anywhere else!

The last thing Toronto needs is another dead weight contract like Clarkson's. Trade Phaneuf now and move on.

A Captain leads by example, not self entitlement.

What makes you believe he's not a top defender in the NHL?

Every single person that comes in says these things but has yet to bring anything to the table to support their argument except for blaming him for all of Toronto's woes when he's been one of the few bright spots this team has had over the past few years.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Maybe but you certainly can't be paying your 3 / 4 guy 7 million. Especially if his offensive contribution is around 50th when compared to other Dmen.

It depends. By the time Phaneuf is 33 or 34 the cap could be at 90 million.

Paying less then 1/10th of that to your #3 defenceman and captain isn't insane.

You need to stop paying attention to the $7 million number and look at what the cap will be at that time and realize that the league minimum will STILL be the same it is now meaning the star players are only going to make more and more money.

There's no simple black and white when $7 million in 4 or 5 years is less or equal to someone like Bozak's deal under this CBA this season.

 

[Jack Bauer]

what?

I don't get this logic, If Phaneuf wants a NMC then we should get rid of him and get something for him while we still can?

If Phaneuf wants a NMC that means he wants to stay here for a long time, that's not something immediately make a deal breaker and ship out of town.

A NMC could hamper the team furthur down the road that's true but it's not something you downright dismiss. If he wants a NMC then you tell him that's he's going to have to take less money to get it so in giving him the NMC we take on some risk but give away some risk with the lower caphit. There has to be some give and take, if we're giving then we're taking too, negotiation 101.

But by all means lets ship Phanuef out of town to someone else who will pay a 1st+prospect, have that prospect turn into probably nothing, the 1st might be a 3rd liner in 6 years, and we can have Gunnarson/Gardiner be our top pairing for the next year, that sounds like fun

Or no, instead lets look to acquire or sign someone else. Lets see I wonder what team X will want for their top pairing D man signed to a contract with a Phaneuf like cap hit with a NMC. I bet it's a hell of a lot more than the 1st+prospect we just traded Phaneuf for.

So maybe we just sign someone to replace Phanuef instead. Nobody on the market, oh well lets just overpay Girardi and give him a MNC to boot, that'll teach Phaneuf.

Reach into your wallet and pay Phaneuf what he's worth, we're a much better team with him than we will be without him and looking for a replacement for him that will cost more in assets than he will return or more cap space than he's asking for.

My logic is NMC's go to the top 5-10 players in the world.

We gave them out like candy canes at Christmas under JFJ and it put us into a 6-7 year rebuild just to get a foundation to build off of.

As good as I think Dion is I don't give him a full NMC and if that's his deal breaker i'm getting a price on him value on the trade market before I even consider committing to the NMC and his price of 7/50.

The cap hit doesn't bother me near as much as the anchor an NMC becomes in this market.

 

[DD03]

My logic is NMC's go to the top 5-10 players in the world.

We gave them out like candy canes at Christmas under JFJ and it put us into a 6-7 year rebuild just to get a foundation to build off of.

As good as I think Dion is I don't give him a full NMC and if that's his deal breaker i'm getting a price on him value on the trade market before I even consider committing to the NMC and his price of 7/50.

The cap hit doesn't bother me near as much as the anchor an NMC becomes in this market.

I think with everything that has happened with Luongo, Heatley, etc. Teams aren't giving out NMC or NTC's as much.

Especially when players aren't worried about being demoted anymore because the cap doesn't really help the teams out. It's not a solution anymore.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Strongly disagree with this statement. He is not even close. If he wants $7M/season let him go anywhere else!

The last thing Toronto needs is another dead weight contract like Clarkson's. Trade Phaneuf now and move on.

A Captain leads by example, not self entitlement.

Another person who is bitter to the point of needing a new hockey team to cheer for.

Must bug you when we win, eh?

 

[Jack Bauer]

I think with everything that has happened with Luongo, Heatley, etc. Teams aren't giving out NMC or NTC's as much.

I agree, under the old CBA early on it was the biggest perk a player could earn because the money was so tight but that's changed over the last few years and I would say almost mainly because of what happened here when JFJ was canned.

I trust Nonis and his judgement on the matter. I also think Phaneuf wants to be here to prove the doubters wrong which I admire.

Elisha , however, should get an NMC.

 

[DD03]

18 minutes, 7 hits, 1 blocked shot. Going into the 2nd intermission of tonight's game.

 

[Erdinger]

His NMC stops him from being assigned to the AHL. He has a modified NTC which allows him to be traded under certain conditions. I dont think Nonis has ever handed out a full NTC

What does Ranger have? I know he has an NMC which boggles the mind

 

[Canada4Gold]

What does Ranger have? I know he has an NMC which boggles the mind

Ranger only has a NTC because he is open to playing in Toronto and only Toronto, and he only makes a million so its not a big deal.

it's not the same as giving someone like Clarkson a NTC, you're only stuck with a million on the cap for 1 year instead of 5.25 for 7 years, and really if you traded Ranger the guy you'd replace him with would cost just as much so are you really gaining anything capwise?

I could careless about Ranger having a NTC tbh

 

[Daisy Jane]

What does Ranger have? I know he has an NMC which boggles the mind

Ranger has a no trade clause - he can be moved to the Marlies.

 

[Warden of the North]

What does Ranger have? I know he has an NMC which boggles the mind

Because he only wants to play in Toronto, for personal reasons. He has an NTC, not an NMC, so he can be assigned to the Marlies.

 

[number72]

That goal by PHX is exactly why Phaneuf will never lead this team anywhere.
He can't protect a lead and just gaffes everything

 

[Quarter]

That goal by PHX is exactly why Phaneuf will never lead this team anywhere.
He can't protect a lead and just gaffes everything

 

[Hero]

my logic is nmc's go to the top 5-10 players in the world.

We gave them out like candy canes at christmas under jfj and it put us into a 6-7 year rebuild just to get a foundation to build off of.

As good as i think dion is i don't give him a full nmc and if that's his deal breaker i'm getting a price on him value on the trade market before i even consider committing to the nmc and his price of 7/50.

The cap hit doesn't bother me near as much as the anchor an nmc becomes in this market.

nmc =/= ntc

 

[bleeney]

That goal by PHX is exactly why Phaneuf will never lead this team anywhere.
He can't protect a lead and just gaffes everything

They were just talking about it on the 1050 post-game show. They agreed that the tying goal was all on Gunnarsson. He had full posession and an easy clear out of his zone and he blew it.

 

[Canada4Gold]

That goal by PHX is exactly why Phaneuf will never lead this team anywhere.
He can't protect a lead and just gaffes everything

I agree, we should waive him, when he clears waivers we can bring up Brennan who's twice as good, and we can save 325k cap space

 

[34]

Another person who is bitter to the point of needing a new hockey team to cheer for.

Must bug you when we win, eh?

Really? I always want to win. It actually would have been a regulation win if Phaneuf covered his man and did not let him dance around the net for the wrap around. Meh

 

[DD03]

Really? I always want to win. It actually would have been a regulation win if Phaneuf covered his man and did not let him dance around the net for the wrap around. Meh

Dance around the net for a wrap around? Dion was all over Hanzal. Hanzal is huge. He kept him to the outside, Reimer let a terrible goal in and let's not get started on Gunnarsson's play before Hanzal got the puck.