TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

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The_Chosen_One

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Jul 4, 2006
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Get used to it. It's not overly difficult to get to that line of thought while watching Phaneuf play.



USA Today?
It probably is considering that he's regularly up against top lines. You need a pretty high IQ to be up against the uber-skilled types. As for the source, it includes Brent Sutter.

It's not surprising that a player who brings toughness, consistency and a solid effort every night is a favorite of Sutter. Phaneuf will always make a smart, safe play with the puck rather than trying for a flashier, lower-percentage pass, and never seems flustered under heavy forechecking pressure, often waiting until the last second in order to make the proper play.

"He has such great puck skills; his passes are very crisp and he sees the ice very well," says Sutter. This makes him good on the power play as well as at getting the puck out of our zone."
Dion tends to play a very simple game, and has been able to neutralise top lines for that reason. If he had a puck mover who was more creative, our top pairing would be able to do a lot more with the puck.
 

The_Chosen_One

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Jul 4, 2006
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Melbourne, Australia
A goal scorer like sundin is perfect for the Kessel line.

Kessel is a great playmaker, as well as being fantastic on the PP and with his wrister.

But you dont need another playmaker on that line, you need someone to create space and score some goals. That's why IMO Bozak fits the first line more than Kadri, although Kadri is the better centre.

It's also why we badly need an upgrade, but I have no clue who we could get.
I'm thinking we'll bank on Peter Holland. He has the size - albeit smaller and less skilled - to fulfill a Sundin-esque role. He is a shoot-first centre with great hands, visions, and pretty decent playmaking ability as well. I think we need to try building chemistry between Holland and JVR/ Kessel. If we could pull it off, we'll have a very dominant top line.
 

pucci2001

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
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AGREE here. Both goals Phaneuf was just :facepalm:

And Randy not calling a time out is :facepalm: X infinity
yup SC winning coach ladies and gentlemen. Needs Niedermayers and Prongers of the hockey world to win lol.

Cannot beleive he didn't call a time out. lol. Seriously :facepalm:

You just ripped off the scab, I was starting to forget it a bit...
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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Orillia, Ontario
It probably is considering that he's regularly up against top lines. You need a pretty high IQ to be up against the uber-skilled types.

It's likely because Dion's defensive play is not his natural instinct.

As for the source, it includes Brent Sutter.

Yes, Sutter is included in the article you linked, but that's not what you quoted from the article.

Dion tends to play a very simple game, and has been able to neutralise top lines for that reason. If he had a puck mover who was more creative, our top pairing would be able to do a lot more with the puck.

As I said above, Dion's play this year is not really his style. He is at his best when he's making an impact by making big hits and taking offensive chances. Give him a true shut-down defender beside him and let him run wild.
 

exporta

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Jul 30, 2005
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By the time the deal ends, the cap will be like 100 mil.

So glad someone else realizes this. Its almost certain the cap will rise to 100 mil in five years with the new TV deals. This is part of the reason the lockout was fought over a long time, the tv deals were on the horizon and there was a lot of money at stake.

Teams are going to be taking in millions for just being a part of the NHL, the game is looking in good shape even with a few lame duck teams.
 

exporta

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Jul 30, 2005
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This year, Dion's $6.5M cap hit takes up 10.1% of the $64.3M salary cap.

At a $71M cap next year, that percentage would equate to $7.2M.

And the precentage of the cap will go down, while the cap goes up. I think people need to start thinking in these terms when evaluating long term deals.

You need to view the hit as a % of the cap, not the dollar figure as it is not static.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
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And the precentage of the cap will go down, while the cap goes up. I think people need to start thinking in these terms when evaluating long term deals.

You need to view the hit as a % of the cap, not the dollar figure as it is not static.

The NHL contract with Roger's is static and will not be going up....

So it is a one time increase in Revenue and other revenues are going to have to increase substantial to see the cap raise to levels that will make a major hit on the salary cap. I just do not see how the cap will go to 100M as you predict in the next 5 years.
 

GordieHoweHatTrick

Registered User
Sep 20, 2009
16,473
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Toronto
And the precentage of the cap will go down, while the cap goes up. I think people need to start thinking in these terms when evaluating long term deals.

You need to view the hit as a % of the cap, not the dollar figure as it is not static.

While that may be true in the micro-model, the Leafs are in no better shape cap-wise than most of the teams they are competing against. It would be easier to look at what % of the cap players are taking up if we weren't already up against the cap. Fans are arguing about who will take up what percentage of the cap that doesn't technically exist yet. The cap going up should an insurance policy, not a foregone conclusion when managing it. This is where Leafs management is failing, they're giving out obscene contracts to guys like Komisarek, Grabovski, Clarkson, and can't seem to get any discounts from core players either.
 

The_Chosen_One

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Jul 4, 2006
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Melbourne, Australia
It's likely because Dion's defensive play is not his natural instinct.
This suggestion is made by you. Let me ask you, who are you? The fact that he goes up against top competition which is NOT conventional suggests that his defensive game must be elite. Seeing that Keith - Seabrooke are not used in a shut down role tells us that he's pretty competitive.

Yes, Sutter is included in the article you linked, but that's not what you quoted from the article.
As anyone back then noted, he played an intelligent game keeping plays simple and being reliable on both ends. Most who are familiar with him wouldn't suggest that he some sort of prototypical PMD. He isn't.

As I said above, Dion's play this year is not really his style. He is at his best when he's making an impact by making big hits and taking offensive chances. Give him a true shut-down defender beside him and let him run wild.
Dion had a "true" shut down defenceman in Regher, and let me tell you, it looked atrocious. In addition, we had a mighty different playing style from Calgary. Their team was a low tempo, tight-checking, and LOW scoring team. Much like Boston, you can get away without a protypical puck mover. In fact, they depended so heavily on Iginla and Phaneuf to drive offence, you could afford to throw a bunch of grinders around them. Seeing that we have Kessel ( or JVR) as our top forward(s) and not Sittler ( who played a lot like Iginla), that just isn't possible. .

On the Leafs, we have high tempo, counterattack playing style. We don't play a tight-checking game all through, but we can collapse well into our zone, and we're able to shut down top lines. The truth is, our defensive zone game is actually very effective. The problem is, we lack an offensive top pairing of the Keith -Seabrook variety to make better use of the puck. Gardiner, right now, isn't that good enough while Franson needs to be sheltered. Rielly is too green as well, I am not sure if he'll offensively break out in a Phaneuf-esque manner.

As I said, Phaneuf would do better with a Jonas Brodin or Ryan McDonagh type of puck mover. Someone that can control the tempo of the game and can be very creative with the puck. In other words, an extremely high IQ type on the DEFENSIVE end of the ice. I could see Phaneuf doing a lot better in that regard, because he's really more of a defensive defenceman with a good shot. Actually, let me be condescending: watch him play and it gets very obvious. He isn't a prototypical quarterback and should NOT be used in that manner.
 

tracker828

Registered User
Aug 14, 2009
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and he showed he can score against Bernier too much money for him good player but not a 7 mill player just as phil isnt 8 and clarckson 5.5 but it is what it is how do we find cheap players to go with them to be a contender
 

yubbers

Grown Menzez
May 1, 2013
36,534
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Haha

2 goals for phaneuf! Why was he swinging his stick at the net in that 2nd one. Lucky that didn't count.

Bum
 

studebaker17

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
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There was a mouthy minority that disliked Sundin as captain. I never got the feeling that they represented any significant part of the Leafs fanbase.

i beg to differ , it was a huge majority when sundin was named capt that didn't think he was worthy and although he won a lot over by the end of his career it wasn't till the last few years. i still run into all kinds of guys who talk sh.t about him.funny thing is the guy he was traded for was constantly being criticized as a capt for being injured to often, personal reasons ect. i doubt a maple leaf capt would ever win respect until they win a cup.
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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This suggestion is made by you. Let me ask you, who are you?

I'm a guy who likes to watch hockey and comment on a message boards - just like you.

The fact that he goes up against top competition which is NOT conventional suggests that his defensive game must be elite. Seeing that Keith - Seabrooke are not used in a shut down role tells us that he's pretty competitive.

The fact that he goes against opposing top lines suggest nothing more than him being the best defenseman on a disaster of a defense core. Carlyle doesn't have much to choose from.

As anyone back then noted, he played an intelligent game keeping plays simple and being reliable on both ends. Most who are familiar with him wouldn't suggest that he some sort of prototypical PMD. He isn't.

I agree. He is not a puck mover. The problem is that he isn't a shut-down guy either. That's why it's so difficult to find him a good partner.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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So WTH,? was this a fluff piece after the world class sht can the other night?

Wheres the ink?
 

highslot

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
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You guys also have to realize that Dion does not have a good supporting cast on defense. You guys say elite defensemen make people around them better, how how many are there in todays NHL?

Chara, Weber, Suter, Petrelangelo(sp?)..maybe 2-3 more that I can't think about right now.

Weber and Suter played together for the longest time, and when Suter left, Weber hasn't been that dominant D he has been known as. He's still amazing, but when he had Suter, he was out of this world.

Keith has Seabrooke and they playing amazing together. Imagine if Phaneuf has Seabrooke to play with? he would be a lot better.

Point is that some of these great defensemen have great partners playing beside them. Phaneuf has Gunner by default, although I'd like to see Gunner on the second pairing with Franson at this point and see what our young guns can do with Phaneuf.

norris winner subban, boumeister, boyle, keith i would still consider 'elite'. and maybe others like kronwall ekman-larson deserve mention.
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
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There was a mouthy minority that disliked Sundin as captain. I never got the feeling that they represented any significant part of the Leafs fanbase.

I swear all older fans absolutely hated Sundin. I remember family gathers when we'd be watching the leafs, all the older grown ups would be talking down about Sundin, while all the younger kids/young adults loved him.

Biased view though lol :nod:
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
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and he showed he can score against Bernier too much money for him good player but not a 7 mill player just as phil isnt 8 and clarckson 5.5 but it is what it is how do we find cheap players to go with them to be a contender

Holy run on sentence batman, what is this, I don't even...
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
7,387
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Hating Sundin?

Was a moron. He had no support, period. Im willing to give Phaneuff $7M at 6 years. If he doesn't like it, we have a lot of money to go shopping with.
 

HockeyThoughts

Delivering The Truth
Jul 23, 2007
12,595
350
Mississauga
Did you guys see Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook tonight? A combined -7 on the night.

Keep this in mind next time Dion Phaneuf makes a bad play or looks tired at the end of the night.. GOOD DEFENSEMAN HAVE BAD GAMES TOO!
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
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Was a moron. He had no support, period. Im willing to give Phaneuff $7M at 6 years. If he doesn't like it, we have a lot of money to go shopping with.

So that last year when the cap will be like 100 mil is the deal breaker lol? At that point he can be shopped regardless.
 
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