TSN: Dion almost signed? Mod warning post #277

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Who says hes always going to be our best dman? What if Reilly surpasses him in a few years?

This. Or Gardiner. Or some other UFA acquired. Dion is our best defenseman is getting paid like one.

I, too, want him in a #2 role when we make a real cup run. But with cap going 70-71 million next year, and maybe even 74 million by the year after, Phaneuf's 7 million cap hit will be very manageable. Remember that his current deal was signed 6 years (?) back. What was the cap then?

 

[Gallagbi]

Question, does local boy want to leave a good thing and come to worse team just so he can play in his hometown?

The Rangers aren't exactly a powerhouse

 

[cyris]

Question, does local boy want to leave a good thing and come to worse team just so he can play in his hometown?

The Rangers finished below the Leafs last season and are below the Leafs currently.
The Leafs arent really a worse team.

 

[Daisy Jane]

But did you see the guy's acting skill?

Exhibit A:


Stay tune for Exhibit B (on HBO)

LOL no - Exhibit B is the one he did today with Clarkson & Cabbie. Holy Moses, that's bad.

hmmm I could be misreading this but I get the impression you think Lupes is pretty???

The UFA class always looks stronger when your over a year out. Teams cant sign guys to an extension until they are in the last year of their deal so a lot of those guys will end up getting resigned. Methot would be a great addition but he is probably going to be resigned before he gets there.

I'm starting to like the idea of Dan Girardi more and more. Local boy who is a RH shot, used to playing first pairing mins and plays a tough physical game.

that's generally what's going around on (my) twitter feed: what other reasons does Lupul have going for him.other than (enter shtick).

people think Giradi won't be good because of the 'systems' NYR play - but maybe he could help give us a solid 2nd pairing.

like I said:
If the biggest problem is that our #2 slash #3 defenseman is making 7 million dollars I'm laughing because this means we've got a #1 and #2 defenseman

 

[34]

Man..

Wisniewski and Carle got more than that, with a lower cap, and they're not half the defensemen that Dion is. I get that some people don't think he's worth 7x7, but how are you going to replace him? Any UFA that's as good as he is will cost 7/year, any trade to get an RFA close to his level is going to completely gut our assets, and drafting someone as good as him will take at least a couple years of bottoming out and even then you have to wait for the player to develop. Phaneuf is simply the best fitting option at this point in time, and if 7x7 is what it takes, pay the man his money.

I get it... He is going to get the 7x7 for sure. No doubt about it!


Thing is, You can't justify a "bad" contract that someone else got (Wisniewski) and say that the next guy should get $100M.


I do agree that Phaneuf will not be easy to replace.

 

[ECanuck]

LOL no - Exhibit B is the one he did today with Clarkson & Cabbie. Holy Moses, that's bad.

This one was a slight improvement I thought. JVR is getting a lot better.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Not always, Sundin was an amazing Captain! The guy was awesome on and off the ice. He lead by example.

#13

That's not what many fans thought when Sundin was our #1C.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I don't hate Phaneuf at all. I think he can be effective but I don't believe he is a $7M/player. BUT that is just my opinion. I love Dion @ $4.5M/5 years but not $7M/7 years.

If you watch Reilly skate already at 19 y/o the kid is amazing. Will he make mistakes... Of coarse he will, he is 19. His hockey IQ is already very impressive and he has a nice first pass out of our zone. I think this kid will be a real stud in years to come! Dare I say PK Subban good.

This IQ nonsense is getting annoying. Read this excerpt:

: Strong two-way defender who is solid in all facets of the game, if not particularly flashy. Great size and strength. Hits like a Mack truck and punishes opposing forwards who dare to roam near the crease. Is very calm and poised under heavy forechecking pressure. Never rattled and always makes the proper decision in puck distribution. Plays a controlled, mature and intelligent game at both ends of the ice. Has a heavy shot, though he's not the prototypical power play quarterback. Link

Rielly's defensive game was always considered very questionable. He is more or less a prototypical puck rushing QB. Much like PK Subban. Phaneuf, on the other hand, was always an all-round defenceman, but didn't have that strong QB abilities. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to compare the two. If Rielly can develop into a Brodin (highly unlikely), we could have a very potent top pairing, though. That Swede, by the way, exemplifies high Lidstrom-esque intelligence and it explains why he can be relied upon so heavily on both ends of the ice.

 

[yubbers]

What about trade options then? What can you get for the coveted phaneuf? :p

 

[Duffman955]

What about trade options then? What can you get for the coveted phaneuf? :p

Our needs: DEFENSE

Phaneuf:#1DEFENSEMAN

Why would we trade him?

 

[yubbers]

Let me rephrase that. What would it take to trade Phaneuf

 

[The Thin White Duke]

I get it... He is going to get the 7x7 for sure. No doubt about it!


Thing is, You can't justify a "bad" contract that someone else got (Wisniewski) and say that the next guy should get $100M.


I do agree that Phaneuf will not be easy to replace.

Wisnewski got that under a smaller cap, the market determined the value of a borderline #1 to be 6-7 million. Add several million to the cap and that 6-7 million looks more like 7-8.5. There is no way we are getting a defenseman even close to Phaneuf's level for cheaper than 7 per. We simply don't have the assets to trade for a young one in a better contract situation without completely dismantling this team. We need someone to fill the role of #1D and Phaneuf is (unfortunately for some) the best bang for the buck we can get. Signing Phaneuf is the lesser of two evils right now.

 

[yubbers]

Our needs: DEFENSE

Phaneuf:#1DEFENSEMAN

Why would we trade him?

You think we're swimming in a bounty of offense? I'm not disagreeing we need defense but the number 1 Centre roll does as well. Would you give him up for a legitamate number one guy?

 

[The Blue Devil]

Because Lupul is pretty & well spoken and also pretty. Duuuhhh.

Dion is a very good captain, for what we see.
And something I think what most people need to realise is that by Dion being a Captain - it allows people like Lupul (who is pretty, well spoken and also pretty) to take on more "leadership actions" (one could say - Lupul is Roberts to Dion's Sundin. Sundin Captain'ed, Roberts led. Until you know Roberts left and Sundin took a crap team all on his back for the next 4-5 years after that).

if the only thing Dion wants is a .500 raise (he's 6.5 right now?) for seven years - in a guaranteed rising cap world - you take it and run. The end. the UFA class isn't that hot - and I don't think next years is either.

Okay -after checking capgeek, Marc "Team Canada" Methot is available. we should clearly wait a year and sign him. [actually - 2015's UFA class is kinda decent].

anyway - Dion is good. and you build around him. if something awesome happens and we get someone better than him, and he's your 2nd defenseman (or your THIRD?) that's still a good thing.

If Dion is ever our 3rd best Dmen and we don't have a 1980's Oilers run to the Cup I will be very disappointed.

Agree with everything.

 

[diceman934]

What makes you so sure? Phaneuf was better than Rielly at his age.

LOL.....not even close. The skill set difference is vast!

 

[34]

That's not what many fans thought when Sundin was our #1C.

Sundin was the last "True" #1 C we had in Toronto. He was a 6'4" 230 pound beast with arguably the best backhand in the league.

IMO he was a great Captain.

Ask yourself this... Sundin centering Kessel and JVR Just think of that!

 

[diceman934]

Sundin was the last "True" #1 C we had in Toronto. He was a 6'4" 230 pound beast with arguably the best backhand in the league.

IMO he was a great Captain.

Ask yourself this... Sundin centering Kessel and JVR Just think of that!

They would be among the best lines in hockey....top 3 for sure.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Sundin was the last "True" #1 C we had in Toronto. He was a 6'4" 230 pound beast with arguably the best backhand in the league.

IMO he was a great Captain.

Ask yourself this... Sundin centering Kessel and JVR Just think of that!

It's hard to disagree. Sundin was essentially a Malkin-esque centre. He had size, amazing reach, and was a lethal finisher. It's unfortunate that he didn't have a in-prime playmaking winger, and a big skilled forward.

Nonetheless, Sundin was regularly attacked for lacking leadership. He didn't have that two-way ability of Gilmour, Keon or a very involved playing style of Clark or Sittler. The latter was obviously more phenomenal with that regard playing a very mean type of game.

 

[diceman934]

It's hard to disagree. Sundin was essentially a Malkin-esque centre. He had size, amazing reach, and was a lethal finisher. It's unfortunate that he didn't have a in-prime playmaking winger, and a big skilled forward.

Nonetheless, Sundin was regularly attacked for lacking leadership. He didn't have that two-way ability of Gilmour, Keon or a very involved playing style of Clark or Sittler. The latter was obviously more phenomenal with that regard playing a very mean type of game.

The funny thing is that you just named all the best captains since the 70's and when we look back at this in 10 years Dion will not be thought of in this same group. In between we have had other Duds like 50 goal scorer Vaive who could not lead anyone and Ramage.

 

[34]

It's hard to disagree. Sundin was essentially a Malkin-esque centre. He had size, amazing reach, and was a lethal finisher. It's unfortunate that he didn't have a in-prime playmaking winger, and a big skilled forward.

No kidding, he really never had that elite winger to play with.

JVR-Sundin-Kessel

That would really be something special! Kessel would score 50 easy and JVR not too far behind.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

The funny thing is that you just named all the best captains since the 70's and when we look back at this in 10 years Dion will not be thought of in this same group. In between we have had other Duds like 50 goal scorer Vaive who could not lead and Ramage.

Phaneuf is just entering his prime. Remember, Stevens became a god once his offensive numbers started to wane. During his prime, he was nothing like Tim Hortons, a defenceman, who was tough as nails and yet so productive offensively. Moreover, those captains I mentioned would probably be earning a lot more than $7 million per in today's NHL. That is, one where cap hits cannot be front-loaded.

Seeing that Phaneuf plays a phenomenal game on both sides of the ice, he'll get his $7 million cap. It's more-or-less a steal, and isn't - if controlling for cap manipulation - above his actual worth. One could argue that for Clarkson, but Phaneuf is well worth the extra $1.6 million.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

No kidding, he really never had that elite winger to play with.

JVR-Sundin-Kessel

That would really be something special! Kessel would score 50 easy and JVR not too far behind.

I could see Sundin producing over 60 goals. He was an extremely effective goal scorer, and was a beast around the net. His playmaking acumen, while great, was secondary to his finishing abilities. Kessel, on the other hand, isn't a very versatile finisher ( despite being a winger), and would probably rack up a lot more assists due to Sundin's presence around critical scoring areas.

 

[rdawg1234]

I could see Sundin producing over 60 goals. He was an extremely effective goal scorer, and was a beast around the net. His playmaking acumen, while great, was secondary to his finishing abilities. Kessel, on the other hand, isn't a very versatile finisher ( despite being a winger), and would probably rack up a lot more assists due to Sundin's presence around critical scoring areas.

A goal scorer like sundin is perfect for the Kessel line.

Kessel is a great playmaker, as well as being fantastic on the PP and with his wrister.

But you dont need another playmaker on that line, you need someone to create space and score some goals. That's why IMO Bozak fits the first line more than Kadri, although Kadri is the better centre.

It's also why we badly need an upgrade, but I have no clue who we could get.

 

[King Mapes]

You think we're swimming in a bounty of offense? I'm not disagreeing we need defense but the number 1 Centre roll does as well. Would you give him up for a legitamate number one guy?

Then you'll need a number 1 dman though

 

[Dreakmur]

This IQ nonsense is getting annoying.

Get used to it. It's not overly difficult to get to that line of thought while watching Phaneuf play.

Read this excerpt:

Rielly's defensive game was always considered very questionable. He is more or less a prototypical puck rushing QB. Much like PK Subban. Phaneuf, on the other hand, was always an all-round defenceman, but didn't have that strong QB abilities. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to compare the two. If Rielly can develop into a Brodin (highly unlikely), we could have a very potent top pairing, though. That Swede, by the way, exemplifies high Lidstrom-esque intelligence and it explains why he can be relied upon so heavily on both ends of the ice.

USA Today?