Blue Jays Discussion: Dickey Wins Gold Glove.

[Nasty Nazem]

As a rule of thumb, if MLBTR doesn't have the rumor or speculation up on their site a few minutes after you see the rumor, its not legit.

 

[The Nemesis]

People don't want "garbage" reclamation project pitchers or anything like that, but there are Halladay suggestions being thrown out?

Take off the nostalgia filters. Doc isn't what he once was. Not even close. Everything is trending in the wrong direction. For more years than you can just say are the fault of his shoulder injury. The injury just pushed things along a little quicker.

Its sad to see happen and have to admit, but I think we're looking at Tim Lincecum territory here: probable prolonged periods of terribly depressing sucking combined with the occasional gem start that gives false hope.

I like the cut of your jib.

What's a jib?

Also is the poop deck really what I think it is?

 

[Eyedea]

A's sign Nick Punto. Thought he would have been a nice utility player for the Jays.

 

[Bjindaho]

People don't want "garbage" reclamation project pitchers or anything like that, but there are Halladay suggestions being thrown out?

Take off the nostalgia filters. Doc isn't what he once was. Not even close. Everything is trending in the wrong direction. For more years than you can just say are the fault of his shoulder injury. The injury just pushed things along a little quicker.

Its sad to see happen and have to admit, but I think we're looking at Tim Lincecum territory here: probable prolonged periods of terribly depressing sucking combined with the occasional gem start that gives false hope.



What's a jib?

Also is the poop deck really what I think it is?

He was exceptional 3 years ago, very good 2 until his injury and not so good when he came back. No one is expecting a #1, but he could be another Beurhle.

 

[The Nemesis]

There are some stats that should make us nervous about Bronson too...his velocity has not decreased but his Contact% and Contact on balls in the zone% are trended slowly up (92.6% of the pitches in the zone he threw that were swung at and not fouled off were put in play). Also, his Swinging Strike rate is gradually dropping. His ERA was significantly better than his FIP especially and if his peripherals don't improve, he could drop off completely in the AL East.

Some of the FIP noise comes from pitching in the Cincy bandbox where his HR rate combined with low K totals will poison the numbers. Also he has historically always outperformed his FIP/xFIP with the Reds.

Also his SwSt% isn't gradually dropping. It took a big hit about 4 years ago, but has varied up and down. 6.5, 6.8, 5.8, 6.7, 6.0. If that's trending down, it's only doing so slightly.

He's also generating more grounders and fewer fly balls, probably going hand in hand with the fewer swinging strikes and Ks. Also his SIERA is going in the right direction.

Obviously there's huge risk with any pitcher at his age, and there's not a whole lot of "suddenly he gets hot and is lights out" potential, but for at least a year he probably is what he is right now: a serviceable back-end innings-eater.

 

[BertCorbeau]

What's a jib?

Also is the poop deck really what I think it is?

Promote this man!

 

[theaub]

I wouldn't be against Halladay tbh, I just don't see where he fits in as a #5 starter when we have enough of those already.

This team needs to acquire an impact #1/2 starter. It is borderline delusional to think that Halladay can provide that.

 

[Bjindaho]

Some of the FIP noise comes from pitching in the Cincy bandbox where his HR rate combined with low K totals will poison the numbers. Also he has historically always outperformed his FIP/xFIP with the Reds.

Also his SwSt% isn't gradually dropping. It took a big hit about 4 years ago, but has varied up and down. 6.5, 6.8, 5.8, 6.7, 6.0. If that's trending down, it's only doing so slightly.

He's also generating more grounders and fewer fly balls, probably going hand in hand with the fewer swinging strikes and Ks. Also his SIERA is going in the right direction.

Obviously there's huge risk with any pitcher at his age, and there's not a whole lot of "suddenly he gets hot and is lights out" potential, but for at least a year he probably is what he is right now: a serviceable back-end innings-eater.

It is a slow decline, but he went from 10 to 9 to 8 to high 6's to 6 even last year. The problem is that right now hitters are taking a lot of presumably hittable strikes from him.

His GB/FB seems to bounce all over the place, but it did strike me as odd that he had that high of a K/9 given how easy his pitches are to put in play.

And saying that Cinci hurts his numbers doesn't help when TO is bad for that too.

I'm not saying that he's terrible, but there are two sides to every argument and no starters on the market without significant question marks.

 

[Bjindaho]

I wouldn't be against Halladay tbh, I just don't see where he fits in as a #5 starter when we have enough of those already.

This team needs to acquire an impact #1/2 starter. It is borderline delusional to think that Halladay can provide that.

He's not close to that. He's a 3/4/5. He could be better than a Happ/Redmond/Rogers, but not top of the rotation at all.

If we want 1/2, we need to trade. There is no one on the market that fits the bill and doesn't have huge question marks (TBH, I think Santana might be a 3 on another team).

 

[Bob Barker]

Bautista = Phillips + ?

The Reds do have a lot of pitching.

 

[Bob Barker]

He's not close to that. He's a 3/4/5. He could be better than a Happ/Redmond/Rogers, but not top of the rotation at all.

If we want 1/2, we need to trade. There is no one on the market that fits the bill and doesn't have huge question marks (TBH, I think Santana might be a 3 on another team).

Unless his price goes way, WAY down, Santana is going to be the most asinine signing of the offseason.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Heard on Fan that Jays have meeting with Stringfellow tomorrow to talk about his client Santana

 

[p.l.f.]

Santana is 35 in March
Risky

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Heard on Fan that Jays have meeting with Stringfellow tomorrow to talk about his client Santana

Also Jose Bautista's agent, oddly enough.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Santana is 35 in March
Risky

Or 31 in December. Whatever, pretty much the same.

 

[TootooTrain]

Santana is 35 in March
Risky

Wrong santana. That's Johan.

 

[p.l.f.]

oh not Johan my bad

Ervin

100 million for 5 yrs does seem alot

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Santana is 35 in March
Risky

Also Jose Bautista's agent, oddly enough.

Or 31 in December. Whatever, pretty much the same.

oh not Johan my bad

Ervin

my bad- Ervin is the one I meant.

Johan is the LAST thing our rotation needs- more past injury questions

 

[p.l.f.]

Why do I get this feeling we're going to get Saltalamacchia ?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

oh not Johan my bad

Ervin

100 million for 5 yrs does seem alot

It absolutely does. Realistically, the most he should get is something similar to the Lackey deal (5 years, $82m) from a couple winters ago as the best starter in a week free agent class. And that's assuming he's the top guy available, which I don't believe he is.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

If we're going to take a chance on a starter for one year, I'd rather it be Colon than Halladay.

 

[Brewsky]

Bartolo Fatass Colon over Doc Halladay, please.

A year ago I thought the Jays were so organized, this offseason though everything just looks like a mess.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Bartolo Fatass Colon over Doc Halladay, please.

A year ago I thought the Jays were so organized, this offseason though everything just looks like a mess.

In what sense?

 

[calcal798]

Santana is 35 in March
Risky

He goes from 30 to 35 in four months? How is that possible?

 

[topched]

Bartolo Fatass Colon over Doc Halladay, please.

A year ago I thought the Jays were so organized, this offseason though everything just looks like a mess.

Numbers don't lie. Colon was lights out last year.... Competely defying logic

I think we should just sign every sp who is receiving "treatment" in the carribean