But are we seeing anything in Markstrom's game that says Rogalski is having a negative effect?
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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!
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NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 68,473
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You have no issue comparing defenses though, when you act like no other defense allows anywhere near the two-on-ones and breakaways with the frequency the Devils have.
- May 1, 2011
- 133,205
- 62,525
I don't think Rogalski has been a positive effect on any of the goalies here. Not that I think all of them being bad was his fault either.
I don't know what he says or how he coaches, but the results have been mostly negative with him. Not all on him, but if it blows up this year then I think they asked for it by not firing him after last year.
glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
Can you imagine us winning the Cup while you have that still?They’ve started playing better since the avy change, no way I’m changing it now
Yay we won the Cup!
LET'S BE HAPPY...
Goalies themselves are hard to figure out, so figuring out how much of an impact goalie coaches actually have is hard too. It seems like you only really hear about the few who seem to always churn out good goalies, the rest you almost never hear about. Does that mean those goalie coaches are bad? How much of a team's bad goalie situation is coaching? I was mostly just joking with my "thanks Dave" comment because I don't think in the short time Markstrom has been here Rogalski has had him unlearn everything he'd learned as a 34 year old goalie with over 470 career starts.
I also think it's mostly been a talent, or lack of talent issue in years past. I look at the long list of goalies we've been through and I can't say as I'm surprised none of them worked out (other than the one good regular season we got from Vitek/Schmid). We've basically been shopping in the goalie bargain bin for years and hoping we'd hit on one. And then when we do go after a legit starter it's a 34 year old with a history of alternating good/bad seasons.
All this to say, is it Rogalski's fault he didn't turn any of those guys into good goalies? Probably not. At the same time when you continually have poor results at a position, it might be time to look at the coach whose job is specifically that position.
- May 8, 2010
- 21,706
- 38,234
I'm taking full credit if we win the Cup!Can you imagine us winning the Cup while you have that still?
Yay we won the Cup!
LET'S BE HAPPY...
Congrats Double-time. A son born so close to his dad's Birthday. Mom won't have any problems planning the parties in the future.Totally not related other than his Devil-player inspired name, but Bryce was born this morning at 9:40 and him and his momma are doing great.
I fully intend to keep him awake to watch his first Devils game with his dada tomorrow night since it's dada's birthday. Welcome to the crew, Bryce.
Totally not related other than his Devil-player inspired name, but Bryce was born this morning at 9:40 and him and his momma are doing great.
I fully intend to keep him awake to watch his first Devils game with his dada tomorrow night since it's dada's birthday. Welcome to the crew, Bryce.
Congratulations! Glad to hear you’re all doing well.
And best of luck trying to watch the game tomorrow with the little guy. I tried the same thing with my son when he was a newborn, and as I recall, I didn’t make it halfway through the first period before he diverted my attention.
We’ll understand if you have to duck out early, is what I’m saying.
I'm taking full credit if we win the Cup!
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
I'm a bit skeptical of the "Rogalski has ruined every goalie we brought in" claim because most of these guys were not very good to begin with.
Blackwood had that nice little run in 2019-2020 between when Hynes was fired and the pandemic shut everything down, but bad goalie go on hot streaks all the time. And now that he's left Rogalski and gone to another franchise he hasn't gotten any better.
Vanecek played legitimately well his first ~1/2 of 2022-23 and then regressed later. I think it's pretty clear that his issues are not technical but mental, he suffers from confidence swings that severely impact his game.
The rest of the goalies:
Jakub Markstrom
Jake Allen
Akira Schmid
Nico Daws
Kaapo Kahkonen
Jon Gillies
Cory Schneider
Louis Domingue
Jonathan Bernier
Scott Wedgewood
Andrew Hammond
Gilles Senn
Aaron Dell
Mike Comrie
There's not a whole lot there to ruin. Most of these guys are either old and damaged goods, rookies who are not ready for the NHL, minor league fodder, or some combination of the three.
Again, it's a little fishy that despite huge changes in Hockey Ops over the past 5 years he's the one guy tat keeps his job. I certainly don't think there's any justification for him to keep his job. I also don't think it's fair to portray him as the boogeyman who is single-handedly responsible for the teams failures.
Blackwood had that nice little run in 2019-2020 between when Hynes was fired and the pandemic shut everything down, but bad goalie go on hot streaks all the time. And now that he's left Rogalski and gone to another franchise he hasn't gotten any better.
Vanecek played legitimately well his first ~1/2 of 2022-23 and then regressed later. I think it's pretty clear that his issues are not technical but mental, he suffers from confidence swings that severely impact his game.
The rest of the goalies:
Jakub Markstrom
Jake Allen
Akira Schmid
Nico Daws
Kaapo Kahkonen
Jon Gillies
Cory Schneider
Louis Domingue
Jonathan Bernier
Scott Wedgewood
Andrew Hammond
Gilles Senn
Aaron Dell
Mike Comrie
There's not a whole lot there to ruin. Most of these guys are either old and damaged goods, rookies who are not ready for the NHL, minor league fodder, or some combination of the three.
Again, it's a little fishy that despite huge changes in Hockey Ops over the past 5 years he's the one guy tat keeps his job. I certainly don't think there's any justification for him to keep his job. I also don't think it's fair to portray him as the boogeyman who is single-handedly responsible for the teams failures.
I think a lot of those goalies didn't play under Rogalski.
I also feel a good amount of blame falls on the shoulders of Marty, or whoever is evaluating the available goalies for us to acquire.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
I was off by a year on the hiring, I thought he was hired in 2019. So that removes Domingue, Senn, Schneider, and Comrie. My bad. Doesn't really change anything about my points though.
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
- 24,666
- 19,260
sorry but you're completely wrong. rogalski is actively telling our goalies to play worse and has been for years now. just imagine what this team could have accomplished if he told them to play better.
Dave Rogalski is a figment of our collective imaginations. The fictional character of “Rogalski” was invented by @Bleedred to cover up the fact that the NJ goalies have struggled since he started that stoppable goals thread. Now that they know every mistake will be memorialized and they will be publicly shamed they can’t take it and rather than accept the blame for their poor play Bleed made up “Rogalski” (just look at it no way that name wasn’t made up by a hack screenwriter).
- May 1, 2011
- 133,205
- 62,525
We actually had Melanson as goalie coach when I started doing those. Who was later fired when Fitz had the interim tag removed and Marty and Clemmensen started a goalie department.
Melanson got way better results, even though he was here for that disastrous Kinkaid season (he was here for the best year of his career too) and Cory’s careening off the cliff. Which started before Melanson got here and was the reason he was hired in the first place, as he was his goalie coach in Vancouver and was brought in after his first decline season.
well since you basically begging for it, here is one for you:
Nemec to Detroit for Nate Danielson
i also would like Bystedt as our future 3C and give up Casey for him
Brutal and brutal.
Devils731
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2008
- 12,943
- 18,397
Make them throw in some of the Detroit style pizza trays for when the board has pizza talk.
He brought Marky back to his past expectations (after falling off a cliff with Florida) in 2014-15 with the Comets in their 2nd season of affiliation with Vancouver. He was a lights out keeper and Rollie was there every off day morning working with Jacob and Joacim Eriksson. (I know this for a fact as was there on many of those mornings.) Eriksson put up an equal number of wins with Marky while playing in more games during the season, but Marky played every one of the 23 playoff games the Comets played leading them into the Calder Cup Finals:
Eriksson - 41GP/2.53./.908/22W
Markstrom - Regular season > 32GP/1.88/.934-------Playoffs >23GP/2.11/.925
Marky then went on to a very successful career with Vancouver and had some good seasons with Calgary.
Incidentally, Eriksson (never drafted) after 2 good years with Utica got the message. Vancouver had no interest in using him other than as a Utica backup to their rising stars. Demko was arriving the following season. Jokie went back to the SHL.
Melanson had a very sucessful career with the goalies he coached.
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njdevils1982
Hell Toupée!!!
speaking of pizza talk.
my pizza stone broke in the heat of the oven yesterday. pizza still turned out fine
billingtons ghost
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2010
- 10,689
- 7,055
I have never said that for this year. I certainly said it or something like it some point during last season and you're right, that may have hyperbole and might have been due to some frustration with what we were hoping would be a 100pt team. I agree that they don't give up alot of breakaways or odd man chances this year. When they do, it's DeBrincat alone, or equivalent. That might be the only one that sticks out in my mind.
When it comes to getting sticks on passes and pucks I think Dillon, Siegs and kovacevic have been terrific. Same with clearing the crease. Dougie and others not so much.
Seamus and Nemic got caved a bit at times, but what are ya going to do, they are rookies.
If anything I think this year has been about a select group of forwards losing their checks. That, and an inability of forwards to win board battles and occasionally just looking lost or lacking effort.
I'd also say that (objectively) our goalies have made the big save more often than not this year, and that our goaltending isn't as bad as the graphs represent. I think there has been some nice work by opposing teams getting deflections, and also losing their forward checks.
We aren't bad, this year, but there's a lot to improve on. You can't tell me the 14 goals in two days was all bad goaltending.
billingtons ghost
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2010
- 10,689
- 7,055
Well, yes I think anyone taking time to analyze what happens in each goal is going to beat at any formulaic algorithm for what constitutes a goal that is easy or hard to stop. I mean, I was a software algorithm designer for predicting network bottlenecks and rerouting over SDWan using statistics and a bad beer leaguegoalie in my previous life so I kinda know some of the shortcomings of both, lol. (I know people talk a lot of shit but I'll dm you my LinkedIn if you don't believe me. It won't have my personal goalie stats tho.
But over a whole season, or career, most stats can be useful when they aren't lying. I also know what bad algorithms that don't reflect reality look like. I get it's the best we got, but I much prefer @Bleedred 's take even if I don't always agree.
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- Dec 1, 2019
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