- May 8, 2010
- 21,720
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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXIV
- Thread starter NJDevs26
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NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 68,475
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If it was just this year that'd be one thing but it's always some new excuse every year. Last year it was COVID and the division format. Prior to that it was supposedly just bad Hynes coaching, and they were unlucky not to get more production cause the analytics said so. At some point excuses get old.
- May 8, 2010
- 21,720
- 38,288
So we should win with putrid individual goaltending performances? You see it as an excuse, I see it as a cause. There’s no downplaying or ignoring this glaring problem.
I’m not pretending we’d be at the top of the league with average goaltending, but we’d be a bubble team, which is pretty much where we were slotted at at the start of the year. There are of course other problems, not saying there aren’t, but damn would normal goaltending help. The outlook on this team would be way different here, that’s for sure.
didn't realize those guys were putting up those point totals.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 68,475
- 33,954
A lot of people are putting up inflated point totals this year, it's almost 2005-06 like, only without the random 50+ goal scorer (a la Cheechoo) and Gionta nearly getting to 50 without hitting 30 in any other season.
I take that back, Kreider getting to 50 goals this year when not hitting 30 in another season IS basically Gionta-like.
- May 8, 2010
- 21,720
- 38,288
Good point, Kreider definitely fits the criteria. Shooting 21% when your career average is 15% is far from sustainable.
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
I really don’t understand this at all. We haven’t had very good teams this decade. Mostly very bad teams, in fact. With bad players. That’s the “excuse” (or reason) for why we haven’t been very good most years. How are you making this kind of statement given the ages of our best players this year? We’ve had one partial season of Jack being who we thought he could be.
Last year's team wasn't very good but also didn't get good goaltending and COVID absolutely did not help, they played a brutal schedule.
2019-20's team wasn't all that good. Hall was not the same player he was before the injury, Hughes wasn't quite ready for the NHL, Subban did not bounce back, Schneider wasn't any good, Simmonds was not good, and so on. I never really thought Hynes was the problem but he did have to be fired.
They're clearly getting better. They need a new head coach and coaching staff, but this should be the last time we have conversations like this about this iteration of the Devils. Nico and Jack arrived this year.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 68,475
- 33,954
Let's not retcon history, people were blaming our lack of progress last year on the unique circumstances of the season that affected everyone to a degree. And people were blaming Hynes and Nas for our lack of progress/regression the last two years he was here, I was a part of that too. I'm just saying it gets old always finding something else to blame, that's what losing organizations do. I can't believe on credit or promise they'll take the next step next year, they gotta show me.
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McDuffz88
Smoke the Keefe
- Sep 18, 2019
- 1,626
- 2,233
Got off the phone with a devils staff member trying to get me to buy season tickets. Told me Fitz held a zoom call & he got to ask Fitz questions personally (or so he claimed). Said Fitz promises a new goalie & he is well aware thats the issue. I then asked about Lindy Ruff his response was that he feels Lindy Ruff hasn't been given a good chance being he hasn't had a healthy roster & when he finally did he had no goaltending. I pray this is just a staff member making up bullcrap & that it didn't come from Fitz mouth. If we go into next season with Lindy ill be pretty pissed.
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
It’s definitely true that people blamed Hynes for the sucking. I’m sure I did at times. But looking back, we just weren’t very good. Last year, we weren’t good enough but getting hammered by COVID didn’t help.
This year, goaltending really is the biggest “excuse” for our record. Objectively, it’s been devastating. The PP too, but that is a combination of personnel and coaching. That isn’t something that can be written off as an excuse, that’s more a “reason” for being bad and something that has to be actively fixed. The goaltending does too, in a way. But there’s no fixing losing both goalies for the entire season. That’s just really bad luck.
Looking back we can say the 19-20 team wasn't good, but we did go into that season with some expectations of being a playoff team. Yeah, all those players did stink, but that I think is the point. 18-19 is a similar story.
Last year was goaltending but also a lot of our good young players not putting up points. And while it's one thing to say we weren't expected to be a playoff team, we didn't expect to be as terrible as we were either. Same goes for this season. Whatever the reasons may be, it has been frustrating.
I understand people are frustrated. One playoff appearance in a decade will do that. But I think labeling actual valid reasons for us struggling as "excuses" doesn't really help. I mean, for f*** sake we had to trade for two shit goalies just to have enough warm bodies to get through this season. That doesn't seem like an excuse to me. Covid, sure every team dealt with it, but it's easier for good teams with depth to deal with than a young team without much depth.
I don't think many people are saying there is only one issue with this team. Goaltending just might be the biggest issue at the moment, and without it whatever else we do likely isn't going to matter as much. A better third line or being "harder to play against" is going to mean f*** all if we're trotting out the worst goaltending in the league most nights.
I don't think many people are saying there is only one issue with this team. Goaltending just might be the biggest issue at the moment, and without it whatever else we do likely isn't going to matter as much. A better third line or being "harder to play against" is going to mean f*** all if we're trotting out the worst goaltending in the league most nights.
Goaltending
Powerplay
Lack of right shot and interior forwards
Those are the reasons why they suck. Needs to be fixed.
Powerplay
Lack of right shot and interior forwards
Those are the reasons why they suck. Needs to be fixed.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
I distinctly remember a late season game against the Flyers in 2017 where John Moore scored in OT to win. Half the board had a meltdown about how we shouldn't be playing for loser points, we are ruining our draft position, etc. We ended up winning the lottery anyway.
Same thing happened in 2019 when Zacha scored in OT against the Panthers, people thought getting that point was a waste and was going to hurt our draft position. And we won the lottery again.
You just need to play out the rest of the season and the chips will far wherever they're going to fall. The games don't matter in terms of wins and losses but they matter in terms of individual performance and development. Guys need to play hard, finish games, and continue to produce. Especially young players who are still figuring out the quirks of an 82 game schedule.
Tanking in the NHL is not a great strategy because you're not guaranteed a top-2 pick even if you're the worst team in the league, and even if you do get #1 overall that player alone is not going to instantly make you good. NHL rebuilds take a long time because competitive roster needs a number of quality players.
And because the players are so young and immature when they're drafted, but that's another discussion.
Same thing happened in 2019 when Zacha scored in OT against the Panthers, people thought getting that point was a waste and was going to hurt our draft position. And we won the lottery again.
You just need to play out the rest of the season and the chips will far wherever they're going to fall. The games don't matter in terms of wins and losses but they matter in terms of individual performance and development. Guys need to play hard, finish games, and continue to produce. Especially young players who are still figuring out the quirks of an 82 game schedule.
Tanking in the NHL is not a great strategy because you're not guaranteed a top-2 pick even if you're the worst team in the league, and even if you do get #1 overall that player alone is not going to instantly make you good. NHL rebuilds take a long time because competitive roster needs a number of quality players.
And because the players are so young and immature when they're drafted, but that's another discussion.
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That last reason’s irrelevant. The “interior forward” stuff is the most overblown shit on this forum. A team that is 8th in HDCF and even better when it comes to converting on those chances and is 4th in HDGF is not struggling due to a lack of interior play. We get inside a TON. Right shot forwards is also just pretty irrelevant. TB had 2 right shot forwards in this 2020 run and 3 in the 2021 run
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Sik02gt
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2013
- 414
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The team really needs to find an answer to the goaltending situation and IMO quickly! I do not want to see any years of our young talent wasted away by having no goalie, and no i do not believe Blackwood is the answer. I realize it is going to be extremely difficult to move him this off season damn near impossible, but fine keep his another year as a back up and go out and try your damn best to land a more solid option for goalie. We fix the goaltending issue and i truly believe we are in a much different spot next April. The future is bright and we are not far off at all.
They need to get better at forechecking/creating goals off zone time. I agree that interiority is overblown, but I also think a ton of those high danger chances are rush chances and that the Devils tend to struggle when they're not able to generate off the rush.
Buck Dancer
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2021
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If you don't think that being a tough team to play against and that interior play is irrelevant clearly indicates that you have no idea how the game of hockey actually works... especially in the playoffs where interior play is about as crucial as getting solid goaltending.
And for the love of god, please stop utilizing the Tampa Bay Lightning like they're the norm, because they're not. When we'll have superstar talent up and down our lineup at every single position, you can bring up the Bolts but in the meantime, having right hand shots or not is irrelevant when you're dressing an All-Star team... which nobody else has in the league BTW.
Sorry if my response is blunt but facts are facts. The good news in all of this is that the guys who are running our team sees what some are seeing and that's all that really matters because they know how the game works since they've played it and have been involved with it their entire lives. Being a paper tissue soft team won't get us anywhere outside of winning meaningless games at meaninglesst times when we've been eliminated for months.
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Interesting way to try to sell tickets
. It may be true that Ruff hasn’t had an entirely fair chance with COVID absences and injuries…but this team needs a whole new voice and to completely clean house on the bench (thanks for all the loyalty, but sorry Nas). This is going to be one disappointed fan base if Lindy and co. are behind the bench next season.
Edit: @Triumph took the words out of my mouth
And we need a good right shot forward or two on the PP. That's really not debatable.
RangerDoggo
The Devils have a culture of failure
- Dec 20, 2018
- 22,675
- 50,599
Winning the lottery is statistically unlikely and we were just weirdly lucky to do it twice. We were also the 5th seed and the 3rd seed when it happened.
Anything can happen, but it’s hard to count on it as a later seed after they changed the odds to give the worst four teams a better chance to win and with only two lottery spots to win now.
If anything the good news is we can only get pushed back two spots and it’s more likely it would be only one spot.
Falling out of the top five in this draft sucks for us, as far as we can tell now. No need to put a positive spin on that, though we got 7 games left and who knows where we pick.
I’m not going to root against the team to the point that I’m going to curse wins, I’m happy for them and they lost enough to typically end up lower.
We’re tied with Chicago with our .401 win % and have the 6th spot with the regulation wins tie breaker.
We had 3rd place last year with a .402 Win % (we were the 4th seed because Seattle was gifted the 3rd seed). CBJ and DET were tied for 4th & 5th with .429.
2019-20 was parity/mushy city so one team had >.700 (BOS .714) and the next best was .657 (TBL). DET was infamously bad with a .275 win % but no one else got near that.
Ottawa was 2nd with .437. while we were 6th with .493 (tied with BUF, who won the tie breaker).
This season .437 would get you 8th place. (OTT is 7th with .414 while BUF is 8th with .442.) .493 would get you 12th (ANA is 11th with .481 & CBJ is 12th with .500).
In 2018-19 we were 3rd with .439. In 2016-17 we were tied for 3rd with Arizona with .427, but won the tie breaker, plus Vegas was gifted the 3rd spot so we were the 5th seed.
So as you can see, it takes a special kind of losing this year to keep up with the bottom feeding Jones. Lack of parity due to expansion, scoring being up/goalies having issues, teams getting their tank on for next season, COVID induced chaos, who f***ing knows, etc.
We’ve lost a lot of games, but a ton of teams are getting in on the losing here. That’s what more at work then us having a little win streak after yet another losing streak. There are just a bunch of teams managing to somehow be even worse than us right now.
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- May 1, 2011
- 133,231
- 62,585
I find it hard to believe that even if Fitzy spoke on that, he would come right out and spoil Ruff's firing to someone that isn't on the inside before it even happens.
He's already come out and publicly said we need to fix the goaltending, so that would be nothing new to once again say that to someone in the general public, but I'm still skeptical he doesn't fire Ruff at season's end or sometime before the end of May.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that if he does bring Ruff back that he won't last the whole year next season. And if we bring him back only to have to fire him sometime between October and January, I wonder how much damage that does to Tom and his job security long term? I don't think it will get him fired in a year, but his seat will definitely be MUCH warmer than Shero's was 3 years into his tenure, where we actually made the playoffs in his third year.
He's already come out and publicly said we need to fix the goaltending, so that would be nothing new to once again say that to someone in the general public, but I'm still skeptical he doesn't fire Ruff at season's end or sometime before the end of May.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that if he does bring Ruff back that he won't last the whole year next season. And if we bring him back only to have to fire him sometime between October and January, I wonder how much damage that does to Tom and his job security long term? I don't think it will get him fired in a year, but his seat will definitely be MUCH warmer than Shero's was 3 years into his tenure, where we actually made the playoffs in his third year.
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