Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VI

[Bleedred]

I just hope it’s Schmid and not you know who.

Because if he gets sent back, remember the Ruff quote the other night?

“I’m embarrassed at what we did to our goaltender” I’ll be saying that the rest of this year. It’s really embarrassing getting sent down two times in a season for some sack of shit that hasn’t been good in a third of a decade.

 

[devilsblood]

in a third of a decade.

This is pretty funny.

 

[Guttersniped]

I can't get on anyone for leaning towards Patrick in that draft year, I was one of them. The thought was that he had been the favorite for well over a year to be #1 at that point and he was already pretty much NHL sized at the time of the draft.

The injury concerns were always there, but no one could have foreseen what was going to come for him. I feel awful for the kid and hope he can get back to playing at some point. Would be a great redemption story.

For too many reasons to count, I'm thrilled we went with Nico. I've already mentioned in past threads that he's one of my favorite people to don our logo since I've been a fan. He does absolutely everything you want from a player to win a game, and clearly is experienced beyond his years to be able to shoulder the leadership role at such a young age. He is my favorite current player on the squad.

The funniest part of this is what makes 2017 so incredible is that Flyers were the team that ate the Nolan Patrick shit sandwich.

We had never picked 1st before, and unlike 2019, Shero did have to make a real choice here.

It felt like the wrong choice could be shoved in our face for +10 years in a Flyers uni, which would have made it much worse.

It worked out great for us considering that no reasonable person could expect Shero to go off the board from the top two centers in 2017. (I don’t care what Pronman said, his pre-draft rumor info typically kind of sucks.)

The Flyers’ first two rounds:
PHI 1st #2 Nolan Patrick

After playing 197 game from 2017-18 to 2020-21 (out of 289), the Flyers traded Patrick w/ defenseman Philippe Myers for Ryan Ellis in July 2021.

Ellis had 6 years/ 6.25m on his contract left. He played 4 games for the Flyers in 2021-22 before what are likely career ending hip/groin injuries shut him down for good. His contract runs through 2026-27.

WSH 1st #27 Morgan Frost
(From the Brayden Schenn trade at the 2017 Draft, the Blues flipped the 1st from the Shattenkirk 2017 TDL deal.)

Flyers fans’ favorite floundering whisp of a center prospect.

Well he‘s finally getting playing time this season, a lot actually because someone has to play for that team, and has 33 points. So he’s still in it.

ARI 2nd #35 Issac Ratcliffe
(From a pick trade, they traded 2017 PHI 2nd #44, 2017 PHI 3rd #75 & 2017 NYI 4th #108 to ARI for that one 2nd)

A very tall failed AHL power forward traded to Nashville for Future Considerations at the 2023 TDL. (Ratcliffe was taken one pick before Jesper Boqvist.)

The rest of the draft didn’t get better for the Flyers until they picked Noah Cates in the 6th Rd.

Both the relief and Schadenfreude over these results for the Flyers were pretty substantial, for me at least.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I definitely wanted Nolan Patrick that year, but it became clear pretty quickly into that season that we took the right guy.

I was always Team Jack Hughes though. Still remember laughing at all the ''Plays against men'' and wide turns stuff.

And didn't Jack have a not great world championships that year? I don't remember cause I didn't watch any of it, but I remember it got pumped even more with people claiming he looked terrible the first time he played with and against men, which was that tournament lol. Which was literally the month of his 18th birthday.

Literally no one outside of the Rags fanbase was Team Kakko.

I liked Patrick too, but changed my time like there weeks before the draft. Nico put on such a good show in that junior tourney

The funniest part of this is what makes 2017 so incredible is the team that Flyers were the team that ate the Nolan Patrick shit sandwich.

We had never picked 1st before, and unlike 2019, Shero did have to make a real choice here.

It felt like the wrong choice could be shoved in our face for +10 years in a Flyers uni, which would have made it much worse.

It worked out great for us considering that no reasonable person could expect Shero to go off the board from the top two centers in 2017. (I don’t care what Pronman said, his pre-draft rumor info typically kind of sucks.)

The Flyers’ first two rounds:
PHI 1st #2 Nolan Patrick

After playing 197 game from 2017-18 to 2020-21 (out of 289), the Flyers traded Patrick w/ defenseman Philippe Myers for Ryan Ellis in July 2021.

Ellis had 6 years/ 6.25m contract left. He played 4 games for the Flyers in 2021-22 before what are likely career ending hip/groin injuries shut him down for good. His contract runs through 2026-27.

WSH 1st #27 Morgan Frost
(From the Brayden Schenn trade at the 2017 Draft, the Blues flipped the 1st from the Shattenkirk 2017 TDL deal.)

Flyers fans’ favorite floundering whisp of a center prospect.

Well he‘s finally getting playing time this season, a lot actually because someone has to play for that team, and has 33 points. So he’s still in it.

ARI 2nd #35 Issac Ratcliffe
(From a pick trade, they traded 2017 PHI 2nd #44, 2017 PHI 3rd #75 & 2017 4th #108 to ARI for that one 2nd)

A very tall failed AHL power forward traded to Nashville for Future Considerations at the 2023 TDL. (Ratcliffe was taken one pick before Jesper Boqvist.)

The rest of the draft didn’t get better for the Flyers until they picked Noah Cates in the 6th Rd.

Both the relief and Schadenfreude over these results for the Flyers were pretty substantial, for me at least.

Floundering Wisp.

Phenomenal. Love the Schadenfreude.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I just hope it’s Schmid and not you know who.

Because if he gets sent back, remember the Ruff quote the other night?

“I’m embarrassed at what we did to our goaltender” I’ll be saying that the rest of this year. It’s really embarrassing getting sent down two times in a season for some sack of shit that hasn’t been good in a third of a decade.

You can have expanded rosters after a deadline. Schmid is being prepped to be a possible 1B in the playoffs. I doubt Blackwood gets in another game, he’ll just be kept around for an emergency. Team doesn’t really care about the relationship either…he’s going to get non-tendered.

 

[Saugus]

So, after all this scintillating Nico discussion, who are we playing tomorrow night? Do they have a good hockey squadron this year?

 

[Guadana]

Yeah ..who would want a Norris and Stanley Cup. Silly me.

Are you still there? We would not draft J Hughes if we would not draft Hischier. Butterfly effect. Same story with Luke.
And Makar would not win Norris and SC with Conn Smyth especially without NM29 and MR96. There are no universe where you are happy with result of that draft. So please, let’s calm down and deal with PPG center who can play good enough to score 30+ goals and compete for Selky. Let's call it a consolation prize.

 

[Alex NJD]

I think Nico gets flack from non Devils fans especially because of the #1s he was sandwiched by. McJesus (2015), Mathews (2016) and Hughes (2019), both look like guys a tier below McDavid. Now Dahlin (2018), is looking like a superstar as well. So Nico is the only 1st overall in his draft year who isn't the best player, which isn't uncommon. 2011, 2012, 2014, 2020 (a little early), and arguably 2010 had players aside from 1st overall ending up as the best player.

The other thing working against him is that 4 elite players have sprung up from the draft. At the time everyone was clamoring about how it was a weak draft and aside from the top 2, the other Cs ranked 3~10 all projected as higher end 2Cs. Which actually wasn't far off considering Mittlestadt, Vilardi, and Glass have all fallen short but were pretty commonly projected top 5 picks. Laughable considering Pettersson tho, who was generally ranked below those other guys.

Near 6 years later, Makar is in the conversation for best Dman in the league, Pettersson is having a 100 point pace season. Robertson is one of the best left wingers in the league. Heiskanen is having a phenomenal year after already being a #1D for a while, including an excellent run to the Cup final. So a center near PPG with near selke level defense is at best 5th in his class. He would need a PPG playoff run including a cup and maybe a Conn Smythe to even be in consideration for #3.

At the time if you told people that the 5th best player from the draft, would be a PPG selke-contending center you would have been ran off the boards . Not to mention there's another 4-5 1st line forwards and a solid goalie that round out the top 10. Really long way of saying Nico basically has met expectations but ya.

Bonus inspired off the banger @Guttersniped post a few above: I think the best part of the 2017 draft was that the Rags managed to somehow trade Derek Stephan, a ~50-55 point center for 7th overall, only to absolutely miss on Lias Andersson, whos is in contention for the worst top 10 pick of the past 7 years

 

[Guadana]

I think Nico gets flack from non Devils fans especially because of the #1s he was sandwiched by. McJesus (2015), Mathews (2016) and Hughes (2019), both look like guys a tier below McDavid. Now Dahlin (2018), is looking like a superstar as well. So Nico is the only 1st overall in his draft year who isn't the best player, which isn't uncommon. 2011, 2012, 2014, 2020 (a little early), and arguably 2010 had players aside from 1st overall ending up as the best player.

The other thing working against him is that 4 elite players have sprung up from the draft. At the time everyone was clamoring about how it was a weak draft and aside from the top 2, the other Cs ranked 3~10 all projected as higher end 2Cs. Which actually wasn't far off considering Mittlestadt, Vilardi, and Glass have all fallen short but were pretty commonly projected top 5 picks. Laughable considering Pettersson tho, who was generally ranked below those other guys.

Near 6 years later, Makar is in the conversation for best Dman in the league, Pettersson is having a 100 point pace season. Robertson is one of the best left wingers in the league. Heiskanen is having a phenomenal year after already being a #1D for a while, including an excellent run to the Cup final. So a center near PPG with near selke level defense is at best 5th in his class. He would need a PPG playoff run including a cup and maybe a Conn Smythe to even be in consideration for #3.

At the time if you told people that the 5th best player from the draft, would be a PPG selke-contending center you would have been ran off the boards . Not to mention there's another 4-5 1st line forwards and a solid goalie that round out the top 10. Really long way of saying Nico basically has met expectations but ya.

Bonus inspired off the banger @Guttersniped post a few above: I think the best part of the 2017 draft was that the Rags managed to somehow trade Derek Stephan, a ~50-55 point center for 7th overall, only to absolutely miss on Lias Andersson, whos is in contention for the worst top 10 pick of the past 7 years

Nope. With selki, ppg production and ppg production in play off he is number two in the draft. At least number two. But its to early to talk about it.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I'm not nor ever have bitched about not getting anyone from that draft...I don't really care what others have accomplished I just am disappointed that the organizations first ever #1OA is closer to Travis Zajac than McDavid.

It like all the kids opening cool Christmas presents and when we tear open the package it's socks and underwear.

Until everyone grows up and realize they really f***ing need some socks and underwear. Right now, with the Bratts, Jacks and Timos, Nico is both the socks and underwear we absolutely need. If you still want toys, it's time to grow up. Toys get you looks and highlights from other kids, socks get you to work to get the cup.

 

[NjDevsRR]

@Cheddabombs All day today after a big win

@Cheddabombs Catching up on the boards

 

[Billdo]

I'm not nor ever have bitched about not getting anyone from that draft...I don't really care what others have accomplished I just am disappointed that the organizations first ever #1OA is closer to Travis Zajac than McDavid.

It like all the kids opening cool Christmas presents and when we tear open the package it's socks and underwear.

Your expectations were skewed then. Way more 1OAs are closer to Zajac than McDavid.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Your expectations were skewed then. Way more 1OAs are closer to Zajac than McDavid.

Not only that - who was the miracle McDavid of that draft that we passed on to get Nico? THERE WAS NONE. Nico was the correct pick if you claim you wouldn't have taken a Dman.

 

[glenwo2]

 

[Cheddabombs]

@Cheddabombs All day today after a big win
View attachment 673071

@Cheddabombs Catching up on the boards
View attachment 673070

Remembering the team plays again tomorrow though

 

[NJDevils17]

It is an interesting argument as to what constitutes a successful 1st overall pick. But the nuance is totally lost in this discussion.

Nico is a top 10 center when we consider GSVA. He’s great on offense and has consistently improved on defense. A unique and valuable player.

Does success mean the best player in their draft class? Should it? I think the odds that the best player in the class is 1OA is generally lower unless it’s a undoubtable situation.

Nico has been excellent this season and improved based on where he was in the last few years.

 

[Triumph]

Your expectations were skewed then. Way more 1OAs are closer to Zajac than McDavid.

I kind of disagree with this - most 1OAs are closer to McDavid, though that should never have been expected out of the 2017 1st overall pick. Regardless, Nico represents a pretty unique player as a 1st overall pick, and so I could see how that and being a huge contrarian could break someone's brain. Usually the 1st overall pick, if he's a forward, is just an incredible offensive player with huge defensive warts, and sometimes those warts don't matter and they're a Hall of Famer (Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid) and sometimes the offense just doesn't get there and they're Daigle or Yakupov. Sometimes they're in between, like Lecavalier, who was a terrific offensive player for many years but was abysmal defensively - Tavares also falls in this bucket, but he's been much better for much longer and will go to the HOF. Kovalchuk would've fallen into this area as well, had he stuck around. Taylor Hall has a rep for being bad defensively but he also definitely wasn't - he just was a phenomenal hockey player who otherwise is an average shooter, and it seems like his days as a top-line forward are perhaps over.

And then there are the guys who control both ends - Crosby, Matthews less so (though obv he is a better scorer), Stamkos less so than either of them (though again, great goal scorer), and Thornton who was fantastic everywhere except scoring goals.

Anyway, most 1st overalls are dominant offensive players whose defense never quite gets there, and that's just not what Nico is at all. He's the total package but he is not really a standout in any offensive area. He's the answer to 'What if Sidney Crosby was slightly worse at just about everything?' I'm glad he's finally shutting the doubters up this season.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Who the f*** cares at this point his exact draft position? He’s a legit top six forward who’s basically really really good at everything. The type of player that is an essential ingredient in a championship hockey team.

What makes Jim’s crying about his draft position even more ridiculous is the fact that we got the exact player he wants Nico to be, first overall a couple of years later in Jack.

Look, I get it. I was right there with the resentment when the team was floundering. But to continue with this kind of contempt in the face of such pleasantly surprising individual and team success? That’s just a pathetic level of petty for which there’s simply no excuse. How can the rest of the board not respond?

 

[Azathoth]

I kind of disagree with this - most 1OAs are closer to McDavid, though that should never have been expected out of the 2017 1st overall pick. Regardless, Nico represents a pretty unique player as a 1st overall pick, and so I could see how that and being a huge contrarian could break someone's brain. Usually the 1st overall pick, if he's a forward, is just an incredible offensive player with huge defensive warts, and sometimes those warts don't matter and they're a Hall of Famer (Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid) and sometimes the offense just doesn't get there and they're Daigle or Yakupov. Sometimes they're in between, like Lecavalier, who was a terrific offensive player for many years but was abysmal defensively - Tavares also falls in this bucket, but he's been much better for much longer and will go to the HOF. Kovalchuk would've fallen into this area as well, had he stuck around. Taylor Hall has a rep for being bad defensively but he also definitely wasn't - he just was a phenomenal hockey player who otherwise is an average shooter, and it seems like his days as a top-line forward are perhaps over.

And then there are the guys who control both ends - Crosby, Matthews less so (though obv he is a better scorer), Stamkos less so than either of them (though again, great goal scorer), and Thornton who was fantastic everywhere except scoring goals.

Anyway, most 1st overalls are dominant offensive players whose defense never quite gets there, and that's just not what Nico is at all. He's the total package but he is not really a standout in any offensive area. He's the answer to 'What if Sidney Crosby was slightly worse at just about everything?' I'm glad he's finally shutting the doubters up this season.

Well, most of them anyway.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Nico is a high end meat and potatoes player. It's not exactly sexy, but it's damn useful and important if you want to win a cup.

He is a literal Swiss army knife. He does everything and does it well

 

[Bcap88]

Nico hischier was not on my bingo card after scoring his 30th goal

We(not we but one person) should be happy about a 24 year old center with a 30 goal season under his belt.

 

[Triumph]

Who the f*** cares at this point his exact draft position? He’s a legit top six forward who’s basically really really good at everything. The type of player that is an essential ingredient in a championship hockey team.

What makes Jim’s crying about his draft position even more ridiculous is the fact that we got the exact player he wants Nico to be, first overall a couple of years later in Jack.

Look, I get it. I was right there with the resentment when the team was floundering. But to continue with this kind of contempt in the face of such pleasantly surprising individual and team success? That’s just a pathetic level of petty for which there’s simply no excuse. How can the rest of the board not respond?

A 'legit top six forward' - lol. GTFO with this. 'Top six forward' just means second-line player, which Nico Hischier is not.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

It took a bit for Nico to break out but he has pretty much shut up alot of his critics since last season and up until now. He's almost a point per game player and is a +32 so far on the year. Granted our team is much better but that's still pretty impressive considering Jack is only a +8.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I would like to now refer to Nico as Socks and Underwear from here on out. We could get real fancy like they do with EK65 and call him SU3C.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

Karlsson or Morrisey might win the Norris.

Both of whom have massive +/- compared to Dougie.