Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[The Devil In I]

Did you ask him?

I asked about Jack, said he didn't know.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

All the assets we got back for Hall lol, that’s about it

That was Fitzgerald lol

 

[guitarguyvic]

What are talking about? He’s targeted the biggest free agents on the market the last two years, that’s not patience. We are where we are because of draft lottery luck, and some very savvy trades by Sheri and Fitz.

That big free agent he signed is currently second or third on the team in scoring. He’s on pace to have have one of the best producing seasons for a d-man in devils history. He’s had several game winning goals this season.

The Palat contract is not a significant concern at all. The consternation by some about this is one of the more silly but unsurprising takes around here.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Also - please tell me one savy trade by Shero that is represented on this roster right now?

Dawson Mercer

 

[NJDevs26]

That was Fitzgerald lol

Nah we traded Hall a few weeks before Shero got canned. Hall was traded in early December, Shero got canned in early January.

 

[NJDevs26]

That big free agent he signed is currently second or third on the team in scoring. He’s on pace to have have one of the best producing seasons for a d-man in devils history. He’s had several game winning goals this season.

The Palat contract is not a significant concern at all. The consternation by some about this is one of the more silly but unsurprising takes around here.

Plus targeting Dougie and Gaudreau are a little different than targeting Shattenkirk and trading for Subban as your splash move. You stay patient so you can use cap space on guys actually worthy of it. This idea you need to have twenty homegrown guys is totally unrealistic NHL23 stuff.

 

[Blackjack]

since he has been back, Palat has been probably our 2nd or 3rd best forward overall. The LTIR stuff is not his fault at all.

if Palat made $5 instead of $6 would that make you happier? Good Christ man.

I don’t know man, you seem pretty determined to argue about shit I didn’t say. Never said Palat was bad or has played poorly this year. I also never said the LTIR stuff was his fault.

I said we overpaid for him and the contract is a hinderance. Those points are pretty easy to defend. But if you want to keep screaming at me that Palat’s a good player have at it I guess.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Also - please tell me one savy trade by Shero that is represented on this roster right now?

The ghost of Beau Bennett haunts their locker room and whispers into each players ear before games “go get ‘em, uncle beau believes in you”.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I don’t know man, you seem pretty determined to argue about shit I didn’t say. Never said Palat was bad or has played poorly this year. I also never said the LTIR stuff was his fault.

I said we overpaid for him and the contract is a hinderance. Those points are pretty easy to defend. But if you want to keep screaming at me that Palat’s a good player have at it I guess.

Palat's contract is not hindering the Devils from doing literally anything this year. You're wrong. So yes, I will continue to argue that point.

 

[JimEIV]

Of course I do.

But I eviscerate the BAD players. Pandolfo was bad. Bernier was bad (famous first round bust as well). Space Junk was coined for 2013 Ponikarovsky (who was unbelievably bad and out of the NHL the very next year) and was immediately passed to Bernier the next year.

Blackwood is bad.

I actually liked Stephen Gionta more than most posters. He was a real breath of fresh air after a few years of Rod Pelley, who I absolutely eviscerated for years.

Zubrus in his last two years, when he should have been retired and not in the NHL? Yes. Brodeur in his last year here? Yes.

Colin White is another player that Devils fans overrated much like Pandolfo. His last few years here were very painful. Watching an old (even though he wasn’t that old), really out of shape player, who couldn’t even skate worth a damn in his prime. Then he went over to the Sharks after we bought him out and looked like a heart attack waiting to happen. I do think he was useful for a while though, was just overused here and appeared a very acceptable top oairing defenseman (thanks Marty) to many in those last couple of seasons and he really wasn’t.

You actually forgot one of my favorites, Mark Fraser. I don’t even have time for a rant on him right now. You really caught me at a bad time.

So yeah, I have eviscerated many a player around here, particularly bad goalies, but also extremely terrible forwards that aren’t NHL caliber, as well as defensemen and players that were once good but really should be on their way to the nursing home (Brodeur, Zubrus, Schneider, Pandolfo, Langs in 2010, Randy McKay circa 2002), I think Patrik Elias probably escaped my evisceration, as he retired before he became useless, rather than being given more ice time over better players or sitting here with a boat anchor contract with several years remaining as he was useless.

Hell, even Andy Greene got badmouthed a ton by me by the late 2010’s, as he just wasn’t any good anymore, but was being played a whole lot.

I actually haven’t had too much negative to say about the 4th line, until Miles Wood took his last gasp a few of months ago and better players are healthy scratches. And really nothing else, outside of McLeod being deployed probably too many minutes against too much tough competition from the opposition at times.

Same goes for the every night defensemen this year, save for some complaints about Smith and his penalties earlier this year.

I don’t know how you can’t see these differently than screaming about Parise not being worth a whole lot circa 2011 or Kovalchuk (wait, I can see why you can’t see that differently lol) going a few games without a point in 2012. Or Marty not making enough saves in the late 00’s, even before his decline.

Or saying Bratt isn’t worth even $7 million dollars a year.

I definitely see it as different...I see it as easy to blast 4th liners...but blasting good players that are at the tail end of their career and aren't what they once were comes off as just mean for the sake of being mean to me? I don't know, a guy that put in 10 good years and slowed down for a couple shouldn't be judged poorly for getting old. But it's easy and nobody ever pushes back.

When a team is underperforming rarely is it the Pandolfo's, Fraser's or Bernier's of the world that need looking at... it's always the guys that are getting the minutes in my opinion. And that is the main point...that is dangerous around here to point to a 1st liner or a fan favorite and say they are the problem.

Most won't do it even when it's so obviously true a blind man can see it.

 

[Guttersniped]

Thanks for the recap. The only thing that concerns me is the other team that would be willing to trade for Meier without an extension in place.

Because that might be SJ's backup plan if Meier tries to force his way here by asking for different terms on his extension with different teams.

Otherwise, I assume SJ wants to maximize their return, so they would prefer to trade him extended.

Again, Ottawa was going to trade Mark Stone to as a last minute rental if Vegas and Stone didn’t agree on an extension.

If it’s a very generous rental offer they probably should take it, they aren’t Meier’s agent.

Stone was an UFA though so they didn’t have the pre-draft as another trade period.

A team can flip him at the draft themselves, so no shit teams are willing to rent him if they can get him at a good enough price.

We haven’t heard about Meier having any iron clad specific list of teams he would only sign with though (unless the former HFBoard poster has the real scoop lol).

Horvat took the Islanders money after they traded for him. That was Lou’s plan and it worked. I don’t know if an extension is the hold up.

They’re fielding offers on a RFA. Our impatience doesn’t impact the mechanics of the process (sadly).

Honestly if Grier can somehow pull off a big Karlsson deal while he’s white hot I would make that my focus.

Moving that contract plus getting two 1sts+ whatever out of Edmonton would be huge. The dead cap space would suck but EK currently takes up 13.9% of their cap.

Really hope it happens and he somehow ends up in Edmonton, Karlsson was an incredible playoff performer. A healthy Karlsson and McDrais all together in the playoffs is lunacy. (So is Nurse’s and EK’s contract on the same roster but you f***ed it up this much Holland so who cares.)

 

[Nubmer6]

Also - please tell me one savy trade by Shero that is represented on this roster right now?

Trading for Hall, whose luck won us TWO lotteries

 

[Blackjack]

Complain Fitz will do desperate things at the deadline, then turn around and complain that Palat’s contract limits the desperate things Fitz can do at the deadline.

Sure, because the only things you can do with deadline cap space are dumb and wasteful.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

oh but we can't have someone making more than Jack.....now can we, @NJDevilsFan21 ?

If Fitz operated the same way, he'd no longer be a GM.

I never said no one should be making more than Jack. I've simply stated that I don't think Bratt is worth more than $8M. Without Jack in the lineup it has been exposing Bratt in a negative way: he's been looking like a complimentary player.

It's a small sample size but very early on the season I pointed out how Bratt has these periods of ghosting, and his kind of inconsistency is what gets teams bounced. To make that worse now, he's not stepping up when we need our depth to.

Yes, he will get assists here and there, but I've hardly seem him driving the play. He has the puck on his stick a second before it's off and to another. He's terrible at freeing up the puck along the boards. But, he's got the speed and finesse to hold onto it longer in the open ice to free up others: a Jack-lite so to speak. Except, he doesn't do that much!

Meier and Bratt are nearly the same career PPG, and are both breaking out at the same time. Bratt has the advantage of being 2 years younger, but Meier being a power forward offers a lot more to his game. Meier is worth more on the open market.

I have no problem paying Meier $9M, because when he's not directly scoring - he'll at least be doing other things (the same reason I don't really get upset at Nico). Bratt on the hand is, right now, is about as one-dimensional as it gets.

Though I did see a little hope after he got demoted from Nico's line. I think he was maybe playing with Haula and Mercer/Shara? Either way, he was put on a line that was a lot more physical and that really opened him up. But as of now Meier should and will get paid more. If not here than another team.

 

[HBK27]

All the assets we got back for Hall lol, that’s about it

Yeah, basically that along with trading Wedgewood for a 5th round pick that became Schmid and trading Johansson for 2nd & 4th round picks that became Okhotiuk & Edwards.

That was Fitzgerald lol

Nope, that was Shero.

 

[Blackjack]

That big free agent he signed is currently second or third on the team in scoring. He’s on pace to have have one of the best producing seasons for a d-man in devils history. He’s had several game winning goals this season.

I supported that signing from the get go and still do. At the same time, it was not in any way a “patient” move.

The Palat contract is not a significant concern at all. The consternation by some about this is one of the more silly but unsurprising takes around here.

I disagree.

 

[Blackjack]

Palat's contract is not hindering the Devils from doing literally anything this year. You're wrong. So yes, I will continue to argue that point.

Okay, but that’s just absurd. You’re arguing that a team that is stuck in LTIR is no more hindered than a team that banks cap space all year.

You can argue that Palat is worth the hinderance, but to argue that it’s not a hinderance at all is ridiculous.

 

[NJDevs26]

If we didn’t sign Palat we’d eventually be using the cap space and other assets to trade for a facsimile anyway. Obsessively complain about his contract if you wish, I’d rather be spending $6 million on him than spending $7 million on say, Wood and Bernier. Yes any multi million dollar contract in theory limits what they can do at the deadline but in Palat’s case, it also limits what they need to do.

 

[JimEIV]

Dawson Mercer

The asset came from the trade but the value came from the Fitzgerald pick....when Shero had a pick in the same range he drafted Ty Smith...you know what I am saying.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I never said no one should be making more than Jack. I've simply stated that I don't think Bratt is worth more than $8M. Without Jack in the lineup it has been exposing Bratt in a negative way: he's been looking like a complimentary player.

It's a small sample size but very early on the season I pointed out how Bratt has these periods of ghosting, and his kind of inconsistency is what gets teams bounced. To make that worse now, he's not stepping up when we need our depth to.

Yes, he will get assists here and there, but I've hardly seem him driving the play. He has the puck on his stick a second before it's off and to another. He's terrible at freeing up the puck along the boards. But, he's got the speed and finese to hold onto it longer in the open ice: a Jack-lite so to speak. Except, he doesn't do that much.

Meier and Bratt are nearly the same career PPG, and are both breaking out at the same time. Bratt has the advantage of being 2 years younger, but Meier being a power forward offers a lot more to his game. Meier is worth more on the open market.

And so I have no problem paying Meier $9M, because when he's not directly scoring - he'll at least be doing other things (the same reason I don't really get upset at Nico). Bratt on the hand is, right now, is about as one-dimensional as it gets.

Yeah, most of this is simply not true lmao

Bratt among NJ forwards at ES:
49.81 CA/60 (3rd best)
25.37 shots allowed/60 (best)
1.79 goals allowed/60 (4th best)
2.32 xGA/60 (4th best)

Bratt is a good defensive forward and to say he "contributes nothing if he isnt scoring" is absurd.

Okay, but that’s just absurd. You’re arguing that a team that is stuck in LTIR is no more hindered than a team that banks cap space all year.

You can argue that Palat is worth the hinderance, but to argue that it’s not a hinderance at all is ridiculous.

there are teams that literally operate into LTIR every year, like Toronto, Vegas, Tampa, etc and they are never hindered from making a move if they want/need to.

the Ondrej Palat contract is not hindering the Devils from doing ANYTHING.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Nah we traded Hall a few weeks before Shero got canned. Hall was traded in early December, Shero got canned in early January.

Ahhh you're right that's my bad

 

[Blackjack]

If we didn’t sign Palat we’d eventually be using the cap space and other assets to trade for a facsimile anyway. Obsessively complain about his contract if you wish, I’d rather be spending $6 million on him than spending $7 million on say, Wood and Bernier. Yes any multi million dollar contract in theory limits what they can do at the deadline but in Palat’s case, it also limits what they need to do.

What the Palat signing prevents us from doing is taking advantage of the next Buchnevich/Bjorkstrand type trade. Teams that are not capped out often come out way ahead on trades.

You think Palat is worth it; that’s fine, I just disagree.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Not news

 

[Eggtimer]

I see both sides of the

What the Palat signing prevents us from doing is taking advantage of the next Buchnevich/Bjorkstrand type trade. Teams that are not capped out often come out way ahead on trades.

You think Palat is worth it; that’s fine, I just disagree.

I can understand both sets of view on Palat . Yes we could have saved the $ for a Bjorkstrand but we can stand around waiting for that forever. Or go out and get a player that is useful for reasons that don’t exactly show up on the score sheet. His contract wasn’t ideal , but I think it’s what we needed.

 

[HBK27]

Not news

Yeah, we've certainly heard these teams being mentioned before. Still, not great that Weekes is tossing other suitors out there.