Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[Guttersniped]

I *did* follow i up with this...

Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

Question. What’s the view on whether Jack is playing through a nagging injury? Upper body was pretty vague when he missed the 4 games. But from how he’s gotten softer on some of the physical battles I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that there is still something. Arm, shoulder, ribs, who knows.

forums.hfboards.com

TBH - I simply haven't seen Meier game for game although I've heard in addition to being a 35g scorer that he's pretty good in all zones. I love Mercer, and for sure he's looking terrific... and certainly after last night you are pretty much spot on in everything you say here...

I thought at the time that bringing in a perennial All Star who's putting up 35g on a crap team is a good add - and I just objected to the kinda home board mentality of the 'yeah, Grier can f*ck off' bc I think Mercer for Meier one for one is still a pretty good trade that would help both teams and might go either way ultimately.

I also think there's a bit of 'NOW' versus 'TOMORROW' here. I think we are in a pretty rare unicorn, team-of-destiny type year here. I wouldn't have said that before last months run of resilient, come-back, overtime wins...

And if I pay for the better player now bc it gets us closer to the cup at the expense of a guy that might even be better than what we get later.... well... I didn't think it was SUCH a stretch and that people were being unreasonable.

I give this one more shot, the trade dynamic of these deals is this.

A bad team has high end older Player A with 0-1 years of team control left. They don’t want to resign him or he refuses to re-sign with them. So they put him on the market.

When a competitive playoff team trades for Player A at the TDL, they do it to get better in the short term. That’s why these trades involve picks and prospects.

If we take Mercer off the team then the addition of Meier makes this trade significantly less worthwhile for us now and in the future. That’s why teams don’t make trades like that at the TDL.

The “younger NHL players” included are typically lesser RFAs with not a lot of team control or fringier throw-ins. And they’re often about making the cap work. You don’t cut off a very good, highly valued piece of your roster to add a different one.

Teams don’t even trade their top prospects in these deals. Sharks fan might not enjoy it but that’s how it goes. Go look at any past TDL deal.

And there’s no way Devils management isn’t very high on Mercer, so this isn’t being contemplated.

And your projected some imaginary qualities on this team and Meier to make it seem like this is has to be done for the Cup.

Meier is very good player but he’s a scoring winger who’s an excellent possession player that drives play, that’s where his ok defensive numbers (this season) come from. He’s not what you would call a two-way player. (Like you claim without watching him.)

He’s having hell of a season, but his previous two weren’t so great, he can stretches where he’s completely invisible or does dumb shit. He has his flaws and he’s not a super star.

People on this board are pretty generous with what they’re willing to give up. Calling one forward (other than Jack Hughes) from the last five drafts untouchable, the C/W who’s our 5th leading scorer at 21, is very reasonable.

 

[Satans Hockey]

This makes me so happy.

I love seeing Gio back in the right colors.

Just a shame they have them in the newer pajama jerseys

 

[Goptor]

I imagine the Mercer discussion went something like this:

....
Fitz: OK, you're interested in our 1st round pick and prefer Kevin Bahl as a NHL ready defensive prospect. What else would it take for Meier?

Grier: Mercer

Fitz: Oh. OK. We like that Eklund kid you got. you can add him to Meier.

Grier: I don't want to trade futures in this deal.

Fitz: Mercer is the guy you really want to add for a cup run the next 2 years. You wont find anyone more valuable than him with his $900k cap hit. Sometimes you gotta give up futures if you really want to win the cup.

Grier: We aren't going to make the playoffs this year and we are not planning on making the playoffs next year.

Fitz: Oh.......................................................................................... Then why did you ask for Mercer?

Grier: I like the player.

Fitz Do your homework next time you try to negotiate trades.

 

[Guttersniped]

What do you pick between California Raisins or Max Headroom if you had to watch / listen to one for 48 hours straight

Easily Max Headroom. That’s a tv show vs whatever the f*** the California Raisins are (just commercials? Some other unholy tie-ins?)

 

[billingtons ghost]

I give this one more shot, the trade dynamic of these deals is this.

A bad team has high end older Player A with 0-1 years of team control left. They don’t want to resign him or he refuses to re-sign with them. So they put him on the market.

When a competitive playoff team trades for Player A at the TDL, they do it to get better in the short term. That’s why these trades involve picks and prospects.

If we take Mercer off the team then the addition of Meier makes this trade significantly less worthwhile for us now and in the future. That’s why teams don’t make trades like that at the TDL.

The “younger NHL players” included are typically lesser RFAs with not a lot of team control or fringier throw-ins. And they’re often about making the cap work. You don’t cut off a very good, highly valued piece of your roster to add a different one.

Teams don’t even trade their top prospects in these deals. Sharks fan might not enjoy it but that’s how it goes. Go look at any past TDL deal.

And there’s no way Devils management isn’t very high on Mercer, so this isn’t being contemplated.

And your projected some imaginary qualities on this team and Meier to make it seem like this is has to be done for the Cup.

Meier is very good player but he’s a scoring winger who’s an excellent possession player that drives play, that’s where his ok defensive numbers (this season) come from. He’s not what you would call a two-way player. (Like you claim without watching him.)

He’s having hell of a season, but his previous two weren’t so great, he can stretches where he’s completely invisible or does dumb shit. He has his flaws and he’s not a super star.

People on this board are pretty generous with what they’re willing to give up. Calling one forward (other than Jack Hughes) from the last five drafts untouchable, the C/W who’s our 5th leading scorer at 21, is very reasonable.

Somebody get it off me! Ahhhhhhhhhhhj

 

[glenwo2]

Easily Max Headroom. That’s a tv show vs whatever the f*** the California Raisins are (just commercials? Some other unholy tie-ins?)

I think that was an animated (claymation-style) cartoon or was that something else? I miss those days where every Saturday morning on all local channels, there would be cartoons. *sad noises*

 

[Nico13]

Still no Meier.

Get your fingers off your ass Tom Fitzgerald.

 

[Guadana]

I *did* follow i up with this...

Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

Question. What’s the view on whether Jack is playing through a nagging injury? Upper body was pretty vague when he missed the 4 games. But from how he’s gotten softer on some of the physical battles I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that there is still something. Arm, shoulder, ribs, who knows.

forums.hfboards.com

TBH - I simply haven't seen Meier game for game although I've heard in addition to being a 35g scorer that he's pretty good in all zones. I love Mercer, and for sure he's looking terrific... and certainly after last night you are pretty much spot on in everything you say here...

I thought at the time that bringing in a perennial All Star who's putting up 35g on a crap team is a good add - and I just objected to the kinda home board mentality of the 'yeah, Grier can f*ck off' bc I think Mercer for Meier one for one is still a pretty good trade that would help both teams and might go either way ultimately.

I also think there's a bit of 'NOW' versus 'TOMORROW' here. I think we are in a pretty rare unicorn, team-of-destiny type year here. I wouldn't have said that before last months run of resilient, come-back, overtime wins...

And if I pay for the better player now bc it gets us closer to the cup at the expense of a guy that might even be better than what we get later.... well... I didn't think it was SUCH a stretch and that people were being unreasonable.

Is it… cherry sweeting?
its a bad trade and managemen. Devils should add the player, not change the player who is working well, his prime is under the team control and he cost less. It’s
Mercer is better player than Taylor Hall now. Mercer is better player than Meier was in his age. Mercer has 1 more year on ELC and 8 or 2/3/4+7/8 years on the next deals under team control after.
there is no “tomorrow“ or ”now”. Meier will get 8y deal. Mercer is very good and productive now. If it’s now - we will change productive player who cost less. We can call it “now” against ”today”. Because today we will get better player. Devils are inexperienced team to think about today, we are not Boston.
This chat has nothing with Mercers actual hot streak. Not trading him because he has good five games is a bad idea. Not trading him because he is young and core piece of this roster for the next 10 years is the reason to act how Fitz will gonna act.
This trade isn’t help both teams. Only SJ. Devils will add goal scoring on the short term and we don’t know how many years Meier will score 40+ and how many years Mercer will score 30-. Devils will add in one place and will cut in other place. Good and especially young teams don’t trade their good and young working pieces.
Dont deceive yourself - it’s a bad trade. Even if Mercer will never have 30 goals/70 points season. (Which is very doubtful now)

 

[Blackjack]

When a competitive playoff team trades for Player A at the TDL, they do it to get better in the short term. That’s why these trades involve picks and prospects.

It’s hilarious to me that teams used to do this in the 90s. I think the Rangers traded away Kovalev at the deadline in ‘94?

Meier is very good player but he’s a scoring winger who’s an excellent possession player that drives play, that’s where his ok defensive numbers (this season) come from. He’s not what you would call a two-way player. (Like you claim without watching him.)

He’s having hell of a season, but his previous two weren’t so great, he can stretches where he’s completely invisible or does dumb shit. He has his flaws and he’s not a super star.

The perception of Meier is so out of hand at this point. I’m worried that anything short of Kovalchuck impact will be a disappointment.

 

[glenwo2]

Still no Meier.

Get your fingers off your ass Tom Fitzgerald.

 

[NJDevs26]

It’s hilarious to me that teams used to do this in the 90s. I think the Rangers traded away Kovalev at the deadline in ‘94?



The perception of Meier is so out of hand at this point. I’m worried that anything short of Kovalchuck impact will be a disappointment.

I wish they had, dude had the most important goal of Game #6…maybe you’re thinking of Tony Amonte

 

[Blackjack]

I wish they had, dude had the most important goal of Game #6…maybe you’re thinking of Tony Amonte

Yes, thank you, it was Amonte.

 

[theoptimist]

Jim better wake up and capitalize on that joke

 

[Triumph]

It’s hilarious to me that teams used to do this in the 90s. I think the Rangers traded away Kovalev at the deadline in ‘94?

The trading was all different but one thing that I think gets kinda slept on as a reason why that stuff got so crazy is that there were fewer teams out of the playoffs. In 94, only 10 teams missed the playoffs, and of those, 4 were recent expansion teams with not much to offer. I also think unrestricted free agency didn't quite exist yet but I'm not certain of that. Regardless, in reviewing the trade deadline, almost no deals involved a player going from a non-playoff team to a playoff team. The three big ones are Kasatonov to STL from ANA, MacTavish to NYR from EDM, and Ysebaert to CHI from WPG.

 

[bigd]

Still no Meier.

Get your fingers off your ass Tom Fitzgerald.

I'm feeling confident that we are going to get him and keep Mercer.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Is it… cherry sweeting?
its a bad trade and managemen. Devils should add the player, not change the player who is working well, his prime is under the team control and he cost less. It’s
Mercer is better player than Taylor Hall now. Mercer is better player than Meier was in his age. Mercer has 1 more year on ELC and 8 or 2/3/4+7/8 years on the next deals under team control after.
there is no “tomorrow“ or ”now”. Meier will get 8y deal. Mercer is very good and productive now. If it’s now - we will change productive player who cost less. We can call it “now” against ”today”. Because today we will get better player. Devils are inexperienced team to think about today, we are not Boston.
This chat has nothing with Mercers actual hot streak. Not trading him because he has good five games is a bad idea. Not trading him because he is young and core piece of this roster for the next 10 years is the reason to act how Fitz will gonna act.
This trade isn’t help both teams. Only SJ. Devils will add goal scoring on the short term and we don’t know how many years Meier will score 40+ and how many years Mercer will score 30-. Devils will add in one place and will cut in other place. Good and especially young teams don’t trade their good and young working pieces.
Dont deceive yourself - it’s a bad trade. Even if Mercer will never have 30 goals/70 points season. (Which is very doubtful now)

You and @Guttersniped are like pitbulls and I'm the fool mailman taking a backward step.

Okok I give, you win, it's a stupid trade

 

[Guadana]

You and @Guttersniped are like pitbulls and I'm the fool mailman taking a backward step.

Okok I give, you win, it's a stupid trade

Walking on this forum isn`t easy road. We were built to bite. Guttersniped is my missing pitbull twin, we were separated in our childhood and I was sent to gulag, learned english to make traditional propoganda, and Guttersniped were sent to the chaotic US and learn statistic analysis to make amerika great again in the modern way of course. And look at us, everything we can is only bite people on hockey forum. Abort the mission.
At least we are makin it competently!

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I *did* follow i up with this...

Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

Question. What’s the view on whether Jack is playing through a nagging injury? Upper body was pretty vague when he missed the 4 games. But from how he’s gotten softer on some of the physical battles I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that there is still something. Arm, shoulder, ribs, who knows.

forums.hfboards.com

TBH - I simply haven't seen Meier game for game although I've heard in addition to being a 35g scorer that he's pretty good in all zones. I love Mercer, and for sure he's looking terrific... and certainly after last night you are pretty much spot on in everything you say here...

I thought at the time that bringing in a perennial All Star who's putting up 35g on a crap team is a good add - and I just objected to the kinda home board mentality of the 'yeah, Grier can f*ck off' bc I think Mercer for Meier one for one is still a pretty good trade that would help both teams and might go either way ultimately.

I also think there's a bit of 'NOW' versus 'TOMORROW' here. I think we are in a pretty rare unicorn, team-of-destiny type year here. I wouldn't have said that before last months run of resilient, come-back, overtime wins...

And if I pay for the better player now bc it gets us closer to the cup at the expense of a guy that might even be better than what we get later.... well... I didn't think it was SUCH a stretch and that people were being unreasonable.

Appreciate your opinion we just disagree...That is still a good thing to agree and disagree makes for good discussion....

 

[Rhodes 81]

View attachment 656478


Walking on this forum isn`t easy road. We were built to bite. Guttersniped is my missing pitbull twin, we were separated in our childhood and I was sent to gulag, learned english to make traditional propoganda, and Guttersniped were sent to the chaotic US and learn statistic analysis to make amerika great again in the modern way of course. And look at us, everything we can is only bite people on hockey forum. Abort the mission.
At least we are makin it competently!

This is my favorite post I've ever read

 

[Bleedred]

Pettersson is apparently better than Hughes to some people……

I had to remember where I was though. The land of where Shane Doan is better than Patrik Elias.

The ONLY place where Shane Doan could be be better than Patrik Elias.

 

[HoliksGhost]

Assuming we don’t get Timo and the Canes do, Rangers add Kane, the irony would be both the Rangers and Canes getting knocked out in the first round.

 

[Hisch13r]

Pettersson is apparently better than Hughes to some people……

I had to remember where I was though. The land of where Shane Doan is better than Patrik Elias.

The ONLY place where Shane Doan could be be better than Patrik Elias.

He’s not better but that’s also nowhere near as absurd as Doan>Elias

 

[Bleedred]

He’s not better but that’s also nowhere near as absurd as Doan>Elias

Agreed.

That was the dumbest shit claim I've seen in the history of internet hockey.

I think it was some Yotes fan and then I remember Jackass#94 (or whatever that Rags fan's name was who hated the Devils more than he liked the Rangers) piling on.

 

[Devilsfan992]

This makes me so happy.

I love seeing Gio back in the right colors.

They had the event right next door to my apartment. I decided to have a few drinks inside the restaurant bar downstairs and saw some guys passing in and out. There was one guy sitting next to us who from his conversations with the waiter was part of the team. I couldn't recognize most of them because I was young at the time and a lot of them are now in there 50s. But I did see the Maven pass by!

 

[Guttersniped]

This is actually a pretty great draft class for the Rangers but Neil Smith traded everyone.

Everyone traded almost everybody but keeping Kovalev for 7 years was the closest to a (non-goalie) Rangers home grown star they got since Leetch and that’s it in the 1990s.

Zubov got 165 GP as Ranger. He was shipped off to Pittsburgh in the terrible Luc Robitaille/ Ulf Samuelsson trade in August 1995, so there isn’t a “but the Cup and Matteau’s goal” aspect that’s used to defend the not good at all Amonte trade. (The Pens traded Zubov a year later to Dallas for Kevin Hatcher though lol.)

Weight got them Esa Tikkanen.

The trade was a huge win for the Oilers, in the sense that Rangers were constantly raiding them for established players they couldn’t afford, and this time they got a franchise stalwart out of it.

There’s a “but the Cup” with Tikkanen, even though he was much better with the Rags in the 1997 playoffs than in the 1994 playoff. (Including two OT goals in a 97 series vs Florida.)

Of course, they didn’t have Tikkanen the entire time from the 1995 playoffs to the 1997 playoffs because this is the 1990s.

(And I’m not writing all this out lol.)

And the Rangers only had a 23 year old Nedved for 46 GP plus 10 playoff games, because he’s part of the terrible Zubov trade, but they traded to get him back later too.

And yes, they traded Alex Kovalev for Nedved in 1998. But they can’t quit him either.

That shit was wild. (Not sure how much the players liked it.)