Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[JimEIV]

I’ve been riding the Chychrun train for years. Stylistically I love the fit, but one year away from UFA with Luke also likely getting a big payday next year scares me a little.

Maybe package Bahl in the deal for a goalie and then sign Dillon as a UFA or target McNabb from Vegas. Either way, Devils could use a veteran LHS defender on that left side, someone closer to Dougie’s experience.

I am definitely a fan of Chychrun. Have been for long time.

Only concern is his inability to stay healthy. And after this season that's not a minor concern.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I'm not one to hate on Bahl. I think he's been thrust into a heavier workload and he's done alright in managing it. If I have any criticism of his overall game, it's that I wish he would use his size more often. I feel he can get bullied off the puck in the corners a bit too easily for someone his size.

I think that it's been a trying year for everyone, and would like to see what can be done under a new coach. But I'm sure it would be tough for us to just "run it back" with the same group of defenders.

I could see Fitz convincing himself that running it back is fine in the sense that Hamilton barely played this year and the team looked better when he did. That's relying on Hamilton coming back and being very close to 100%, but I guess you pretty much have to hope that happens given his contract and just rely on Nemec as the contingency again. Sieg-Hamilton can win 20 ES minutes a night again and Luke and Nemec can be more consistent next year coupled with a better overall scheme and forward group, then all of a sudden Siegs-Dougie, Luke-Marino, Bahl-Nemec with a new veteran to split time with Bahl in the 6/7 role and the cheap AHL depth we already have looks not that far off from what we had last year.

That all hinges on three that could really go either way with Dougie, Luke, and Nemec, but Fitz may choose to focus his assets on goalie and forward improvements and hope those both do enough to mask some of the D shortcomings. It's also probably easier to pull off a mid-season trade for a D than he found it was for goalie this year if necessary. My first choice would be to upgrade at least one spot on D, but I see the merits Fitz may see there if he thinks totally overhauling the middle-six forwards is a better bet.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Feels like someone is going to have to go on defense if anything just to shake things up.

Luke and Nemec obviously aren’t going anywhere. Hamilton can’t go anywhere. Siegenthaler is a great duo with Dougie and on a terrific deal. Marino’s off the rush defending is almost a perfect fit for this team.

Unless the Devils look to swap out Marino for a Tanev/Carrier type to play with Luke, it feels like the next option would be to move Bahl for a more veteran guy (Chychrun?) to play with Nemec.

Siegenthaler - Hamilton
Chychrun - Nemec
Hughes - Marino
RHD depth (Stetcher, Brown, DeSimone)
————
Hatakka, Misyul, Casey? as call up options

I don't see Bahl as having any real value. His size and contract means someone is likely interested but Ottawa has a bunch of these borderline NHL players already.

I think NJ is gonna explore moving Siegenthaler and Marino this offseason. The Hanifin rumors and my own two eyes tell me the FO is concerned about the left side on defense moving forward and would move either to upgrade it.

 

[forceten]

I feel like ENGs should not count against +/-, just like PPG don't.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't see Bahl as having any real value. His size and contract means someone is likely interested but Ottawa has a bunch of these borderline NHL players already.

I think NJ is gonna explore moving Siegenthaler and Marino this offseason. The Hanifin rumors and my own two eyes tell me the FO is concerned about the left side on defense moving forward and would move either to upgrade it.

I don't see how we can afford Hanifin, address other issues and pay the young players that will need contracts in the next couple of years.... Hanifin is going get 6&1/2 to 7&1/2 maybe 8
would be my guess? It seems way too rich for us.

 

[forceten]

We don't need Hanifin. I'd rather sign Skjei.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I don't see how we can afford Hanifin, address other issues and pay the young players that will need contracts in the next couple of years.... Hanifin is going get 6&1/2 to 7&1/2 maybe 8
would be my guess? It seems way too rich for us.

Especially if NJ trades for Markstrom's full cap hit. Hanifin also is heavily rumored to want to sign in TB. In any case I just mean that the FO is rumored to have looked into upgrading the LD around the deadline (presumably offering Siegenthaler to get an extended Hanifin) so it's on their mind.

 

[theoptimist]

Ok good. Just a vibe check.

 

[Zippy316]

I don't see Bahl as having any real value. His size and contract means someone is likely interested but Ottawa has a bunch of these borderline NHL players already.

I think NJ is gonna explore moving Siegenthaler and Marino this offseason. The Hanifin rumors and my own two eyes tell me the FO is concerned about the left side on defense moving forward and would move either to upgrade it.

Bahl is a young defenseman with size and pretty solid defensive metrics. He will definitely have some value to a team out there.

I think he’s going to be a good defender in this league for a while. I just wonder whether the Devils see him as the easy guy to move and want to replace with some experience considering Marino & Siegenthaler are pretty green by defender standards and Luke/Nemec are still developing. Trying to develop yet another defender is a bit much in that situation.

I don’t disagree on looking at Siegs/Marino moving. Just think the Siegenthaler - Hamilton chemistry and his deal makes him a tough sell to move on from. I could see Marino getting dealt in a hockey trade and free up some salary. Hell maybe if Sullivan ends up being the coach that’ll force Marino out.

 

[Call Me Al]

bahl is not a finished product and still has the potential to be a very good 2nd or 3rd pairing d man by his late 20s. he is movable for sure, but i don’t know that you win that deal.

i’m comfortable with the d pairings set for next year as

siegs-hamilton
hughes - marino
bahl-nemec

as long as we have a league average goalie, good d structure and defensively responsible forwards.

as pathetic as this team is we’re still a bubble team, those changes should make them good enough to make the playoffs.

i worry that fitz is going to try and swing for the fences on the goalie front and create deficiencies in other areas, like a dumb ass whack-a-mole game

 

[Devs3cups]

Kucherov: “Winner, Cup champion, great leader, mature veteran.”

Jack Hughes: “Immature, temper tantrum haver.”

 

[JimEIV]

bahl is not a finished product and still has the potential to be a very good 2nd or 3rd pairing d man by his late 20s. he is movable for sure, but i don’t know that you win that deal.

i’m comfortable with the d pairings set for next year as

siegs-hamilton
hughes - marino
bahl-nemec

as long as we have a league average goalie, good d structure and defensively responsible forwards.

as pathetic as this team is we’re still a bubble team, those changes should make them good enough to make the playoffs.

i worry that fitz is going to try and swing for the fences on the goalie front and create deficiencies in other areas, like a dumb ass whack-a-mole game

That's a dangerous defense to go into the season with in my opinion. It's just too inexperienced in my opinion. There needs be something more stable in the top 4.

Depending on who the 7th is, that defense is one injury away from disaster.

It could go well with the young guys fast tracking their development or it can completely fall apart again... it's too big of gamble.

 

[Aurinko]

I don't see Bahl as having any real value. His size and contract means someone is likely interested but Ottawa has a bunch of these borderline NHL players already.

I think NJ is gonna explore moving Siegenthaler and Marino this offseason. The Hanifin rumors and my own two eyes tell me the FO is concerned about the left side on defense moving forward and would move either to upgrade it.

Bahl had highest +/- as D (yes im a believer nerd) and piss cheap contract. I think Bahl played way above his paygrade, and while he has done some mistakes lately, looking at him will not be the answer. Even if he would turn out worse next season, the contract will STILL be above average in value.

The D need time to get used to eachother. I'm seeing the main problem being with the forwards who are not doing good enough job supporting: Mercer just scoring to get decent contract, Hughes hurt and Meier just severely underperforming for the price. Not having M.McLeod sucks. IMO, He had been the highest value player of the team by a mile and not having him around hurts.

 

[Guadana]

bahl is not a finished product and still has the potential to be a very good 2nd or 3rd pairing d man by his late 20s. he is movable for sure, but i don’t know that you win that deal.

i’m comfortable with the d pairings set for next year as

siegs-hamilton
hughes - marino
bahl-nemec

as long as we have a league average goalie, good d structure and defensively responsible forwards.

as pathetic as this team is we’re still a bubble team, those changes should make them good enough to make the playoffs.

i worry that fitz is going to try and swing for the fences on the goalie front and create deficiencies in other areas, like a dumb ass whack-a-mole game

Bahl is good 3rd pair game. The problem is with Luke in the roster Bahl should play "second pair" defensive role, especially in case of injuries. His mechanics are not good for that, his decision making isnt there. at least yet. If Nemec would be LD and Luke would be RD, we would not have a problem to use Bahl as our 3LD, but its not our case. Bahl is good against bottom lines but when he faced tougher opponents - he isnt ready in many cases. And it is translating very good in metrics. So its better for him and for a team to trade him and sign more experienced player who can play against tougher opponents. Bahl and Marino faced most of GA 5 on 5. If we will replace Siegs for other defenseman we can face the same situation of what we have this season. May be its reasonable to find two better LD in the next 1-12 months.

That's a dangerous defense to go into the season with in my opinion. It's just too inexperienced in my opinion. There needs be something more stable in the top 4.

Depending on who the 7th is, that defense is one injury away from disaster.

It could go well with the young guys fast tracking their development or it it can completely fall apart again... it's too big of gamble.

Siegs-Dougie
Dillon-Nemec/Marino
Luke-Marino/Nemec
Misyul, Hattaka.

Dillon is an easy option to sign from the market. We can invest in Skjei or trade Dumolin.
There are good options like Kulikov and DeHaan for third pair role.

 

[JimEIV]

Bahl is good 3rd pair game. The problem is with Luke in the roster Bahl should play "second pair" defensive role, especially in case of injuries. His mechanics are not good for that, his decision making isnt there. at least yet. If Nemec would be LD and Luke would be RD, we would not have a problem to use Bahl as our 3LD, but its not our case. Bahl is good against bottom lines but when he faced tougher opponents - he isnt ready in many cases. And it is translating very good in metrics. So its better for him and for a team to trade him and sign more experienced player who can play against tougher opponents. Bahl and Marino faced most of GA 5 on 5. If we will replace Siegs for other defenseman we can face the same situation of what we have this season. May be its reasonable to find two better LD in the next 1-12 months.


Siegs-Dougie
Dillon-Nemec/Marino
Luke-Marino/Nemec
Misyul, Hattaka.

Dillon is an easy option to sign from the market. We can invest in Skjei or trade Dumolin.
There are good options like Kulikov and DeHaan for third pair role.

Dillion turns 34 at the beginning of next season. But he would solve some problems... defense, size , PK....

Just 34 years old makes me nervous. Someone who is in and out of the lineup with injuries creates a ton of instability that I don't think our defense can handle...and that's likely from a 34 year old.

 

[bossram]

I am definitely a fan of Chychrun. Have been for long time.

Only concern is his inability to stay healthy. And after this season that's not a minor concern.

I'm not a fan of Chychrun. He's had a very poor season this year. And defensively he's never been that good - the kind of defenseman Fitz should be bringing in is someone who can lock it down.

He's more tilted toward being an offensively-inclined, shoot-first defenseman. He's basically the knock-off version of Dougie. That's not the archetype they should be looking at with Hamilton, Luke, and Nemec already here long-term.

My top choice is a PIT defenseman trade redux. I'd pay a hefty price for Marcus Pettersson.

 

[theoptimist]

Bahl is good 3rd pair game. The problem is with Luke in the roster Bahl should play "second pair" defensive role, especially in case of injuries. His mechanics are not good for that, his decision making isnt there. at least yet. If Nemec would be LD and Luke would be RD, we would not have a problem to use Bahl as our 3LD, but its not our case. Bahl is good against bottom lines but when he faced tougher opponents - he isnt ready in many cases. And it is translating very good in metrics. So its better for him and for a team to trade him and sign more experienced player who can play against tougher opponents. Bahl and Marino faced most of GA 5 on 5. If we will replace Siegs for other defenseman we can face the same situation of what we have this season. May be its reasonable to find two better LD in the next 1-12 months.


Siegs-Dougie
Dillon-Nemec/Marino
Luke-Marino/Nemec
Misyul, Hattaka.

Dillon is an easy option to sign from the market. We can invest in Skjei or trade Dumolin.
There are good options like Kulikov and DeHaan for third pair role.

Dillon is too lateral. I prefer a clear upgrade on Siegenthaler, or just keep him so I have someone to roast next season. I also want to keep Bahl in the 3LD role.

 

[bossram]

Bahl is a young defenseman with size and pretty solid defensive metrics. He will definitely have some value to a team out there.

I think he’s going to be a good defender in this league for a while. I just wonder whether the Devils see him as the easy guy to move and want to replace with some experience considering Marino & Siegenthaler are pretty green by defender standards and Luke/Nemec are still developing. Trying to develop yet another defender is a bit much in that situation.

I don’t disagree on looking at Siegs/Marino moving. Just think the Siegenthaler - Hamilton chemistry and his deal makes him a tough sell to move on from. I could see Marino getting dealt in a hockey trade and free up some salary. Hell maybe if Sullivan ends up being the coach that’ll force Marino out.

Even if they add a defensemen, I don't see the necessity of moving Bahl. Injuries are going to happen. Performance from other guys can dip. Siegs might not be able to bounce back, and they could need Bahl to be a regular by default.

 

[theoptimist]

Siegenthaler-Dougie is the grinch who stole christmas. We keep fantasizing about the 22-23 "glory days." The pairing is done.

 

[Guadana]

Dillion turns 34 at the beginning of next season. But he would solve some problems... defense, size , PK....

Just 34 years old makes me nervous. Someone who is in and out of the lineup with injuries creates a ton of instability that I don't think our defense can handle...and that's likely from a 34 year old.

agree. I want Skjei and Dumolin much more but Im not so sure we will go this way.

Dillon is too lateral. I prefer a clear upgrade on Siegenthaler, or just keep him so I have someone to roast next season. I also want to keep Bahl in the 3LD role.

I dont see the same LD squad as a good decision to go next year. Dougie was hurt two years in three season, we cant go the same D next season, even taking in the mind that Nemec and L Hughes will make next step. We cant be sure how far they will make this step. Both need baby sitters. Hamilton isnt baby sitter. And we cant have one more player Bahl to live with his mistakes.
At least we need massive upgrade over Siegs but he would be perfect player to play in second to third pair role if we will upgrade Bahl. And in injury cases we will have good insurances. With Bahl we have no insurance.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm not a fan of Chychrun. He's had a very poor season this year. And defensively he's never been that good - the kind of defenseman Fitz should be bringing in is someone who can lock it down.

He's more tilted toward being an offensively-inclined, shoot-first defenseman. He's basically the knock-off version of Dougie. That's not the archetype they should be looking at with Hamilton, Luke, and Nemec already here long-term.

My top choice is a PIT defenseman trade redux. I'd pay a hefty price for Marcus Pettersson.

Fair points on Chychrun...and he doesn't kill penalties... I still think he's a more well rounded defender than your giving him credit for.

But I'm listening...

What are you saying a Holtz for Pettersson...a Bahl for Pettersson?

Bahl would seemingly have to go?

 

[Rhodes 81]

I could see a lot of the moves coming down to how secure Fitz feels in his job. If he thinks he's done without a great year next season, he may choose to shoot for the stars at the cost of long-term flexibility. Going for a signing like Hanifin in addition to trading for a "big game" goalie and filing out the forwards (including at least 1 top-6er) is something you do if you're trying to maximize next year and accept you're going to have to start selling guys back off after that.

 

[Forge]

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I don’t think we need to make any big moves on D. We’re going to go as Luke and Nemec go — we cannot afford another high price D when they’re due for deals (unless Dougie is being moved). Just get some stop gaps and get Doug healthy.

Getting more supportive forwards with speed will impact the team D too.

 

[Cheddabombs]

The reinforcements are coming