Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Oneiro]

I don’t know if it even makes sense getting into the nuances this year.

Inexperience, injuries, bad system, bad goalies, slower roster, depth guys stalled out, were criminals or regressed hard for long stretches. I’m happy it’s ending like this as sick as it is. Change is coming to the system and the roster and whoever is teaching Luke, Bahl and Nemec will be better than what we’ve had, knock on wood. Taking the medicine is good.

Everyone was too young or disappeared for too long, via bad luck or inconsistency.Like Nico and Bratt are the only two I can sort of absolve this year - they both played hard and improved in many areas. But even they went too long without contributing given their stature.

 

[Guttersniped]

Artem Shlaine - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Artem Shlaine, 2002-03-07 Moskva, RUS USA. Most recently in the NCAA with Arizona State Univ.. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

I dont know what the problem. He will not find NHL team to sign and play in NHL right from the start. There are tonns of opportunities to play center role in AHL. And even on NHL level this team is not equipped with center position.
Its a curse for winning two 1OA picks and drafting two good centers.

It will be a bummer if he takes an AHL deal from a different team because often players take those from the teams that originally drafted them.

Will actively root against him if he signs elsewhere lol. (Yeah, I’m petty.)

 

[Triumph]

I’m going to push back on Shlaine being productive, he really hasn’t been.

He’s 22 and never been a point a game player in college after going all 4 years. You can find bunches of guys with that kind of production.

His team was rather weak offensively, though. He scored 10 goals and didn't play in every game, the rest of the team scored 73. The other productive player got an ATO with the Thunder/Comets and is tearing up Adirondack, but he is a 2019 draft year.

I do think his production lands him in the camp of top line ECHLer/bottom line AHLer and he's already 22. The trouble is the Devils haven't exactly been great at even finding these sorts of players elsewhere.

 

[My3Sons]

The poster was smarmy to me, so I'll be smarmy back. He was acting as if I don't know what I'm talking about, trying to say that I actually hadn't consulted the numbers.

If someone argues in good faith respectfully, I'll respond in kind. If not, same thing.

Is that kinda assholish? Yeah it is.

There is a language barrier that makes it difficult. It was a good discussion and I was trying to determine what made sense in it and while I tended to favor your thoughts I just found the direct assault was distracting and unnecessary. We are all Devils fans and need to stick together.

 

[Guttersniped]

Yes, we did. The Devils were 24-1-1 with a lead going into the 3rd period before the Buffalo game.



Could be the Devils' choice, Xavier Parent seems to occupy a similar niche on the Utica team right now. That said, while I don't think Shlaine will get an ELC, someone will definitely sign him to an AHL deal.

I can’t see how it’s possibly the Devils’ choice or how having Parent on a pretty barren AHL team blocks more additions.

1) Holy crap, do we desperately need centers in our minors system. We don’t have any center prospects coming and we have nothing much there currently.

Utica is constantly forced to 1) put wingers at center 2) play a bottom six AHL checking center too high or 3) try to fill the spots with UFA signings.

1) and 2) is why Utica is such a offensively challenged slog.

3) is hard to do even when you’re willing to throw around a little money (and we are). There are very few true centers on the UFA market and we aren’t one of top tier team’s in terms of attracting UFAs (for Utica).

And the AHL is a development league, you can only have a few vets. You need lesser prospects on ELCs or AHL deals in the minors to be a good team. Even if they don’t make it to the NHL, a better, deeper team makes a better development system.

The most consistently successful teams sign a good amount of FA talent every year, there’s always a ton of turnover. We signed Parent 2 years ago, he could leave in the off-season.

Wendt is a very nice signing but we need guys who are actually f***ing centers, took face-offs, played that position, all that good stuff, grr

Just to be clear, I’m screaming to the void here, not raging at you or your post. This drives me crazy every year around this time.

 

[Guttersniped]

I’m going to push back on Shlaine being productive, he really hasn’t been.

He’s 22 and never been a point a game player in college after going all 4 years. You can find bunches of guys with that kind of production.

His team was rather weak offensively, though. He scored 10 goals and didn't play in every game, the rest of the team scored 73. The other productive player got an ATO with the Thunder/Comets and is tearing up Adirondack, but he is a 2019 draft year.

I do think his production lands him in the camp of top line ECHLer/bottom line AHLer and he's already 22. The trouble is the Devils haven't exactly been great at even finding these sorts of players elsewhere.

“You can find bunches of guys with that kind of production”

Yeah, just to piggy back on @Triumph here, if the Devils can find other centers like this, and get them into Utica, that would be great.

 

[Guadana]

It will be a bummer if he takes an AHL deal from a different team because often players take those from the teams that originally drafted them.

Will actively root against him if he signs elsewhere lol. (Yeah, I’m petty.)

I will join this root against team. We will buy shirt with "Foolishlaine" sign on it. Sounds like some "stop word" from "Eurotrip" movie.

I’m going to push back on Shlaine being productive, he really hasn’t been.

He’s 22 and never been a point a game player in college after going all 4 years. You can find bunches of guys with that kind of production.

Where? Why Devils cant find them? Why we are talking about center depth problem for 3 years straight? His production was still good enough for some role in AHL. We spent pick for him. Why we cant try to gain some useful from him? From McCarthy? Moynihan? Edwards in one step away from the same path. Devils should do something with their scouting or/and management.

 

[Devils731]

“You can find bunches of guys with that kind of production”

Yeah, just to piggy back on @Triumph here, if the Devils can find other centers like this, and get them into Utica, that would be great.

They arguably just signed a better one, not that I expect either to make a real difference to the NHL team.

Shlaine isn’t in the top 75 in the nation in points per game so it’s hard to tell how many other guys produced like him but it’s a lot and that’s limiting the search to only the college ranks.

Back to the original point, his production isn’t impressive. It’s fine but there are lots of guys like him out there.

 

[Guttersniped]

They arguably just signed a better one, not that I expect either to make a real difference to the NHL team.

It was a good signing, but not a center, and we don’t have much of anything at that position.

They can play Wendt there but forcing him to switch positions this late isn’t going to help his production. He was a 1RW this season.

Top teams who are successful year after year attract a good crop of FA talent every off-season for their minors systems.

It helps enormously with player development, with attracting better FAs in the future, and provides NHL depth. You don’t sign a guy every two years and call it a day.

People obviously don’t have care about this like I do, or pay attention to it like I do. I’m not pushing for people to get in the weeds with me, because I get way in there with following this market, but I stand by it being a useful part of a successful franchise.

It’s early April, I’m not burying the team here, but I’ll definitely want more. I assume they’re trying to get guys to sign AHL deals.

And my guess is Schlaine turned down an AHL deal from us.

 

[Devils731]

Where? Why Devils cant find them? Why we are talking about center depth problem for 3 years straight? His production was still good enough for some role in AHL. We spent pick for him. Why we cant try to gain some useful from him? From McCarthy? Moynihan? Edwards in one step away from the same path. Devils should do something with their scouting or/and management.

Where? Everywhere. I can’t tell you why the Devils do or do not sign guys for AHL depth but they’re out there.

Devils used a 5th round pick on Shlaine, that’s effectively nothing. Shlaine may be good enough for an AHL role but if he won’t sign an AHL contract then what are you going to do? Making a big deal over something that isn’t a big deal doesn’t make sense to me.

Hand wringing over other late round draft picks that didn’t work out, just like almost every other late round draft pick just seems like wasted energy.

Top teams who are successful year after year attract a good crop of FA talent every year for their minors systems.

That’s fine. I’d love the Devils to attract top rookie free agents too.

Shlaine isn’t a top free agent once he gets there though.

 

[My3Sons]

It's not hard to understand why a guy drafted by an organization would feel rebuffed if they did not sign him by his senior year. Why not see if there is a better fit somewhere else? They had three years to sign him and passed for whatever reason.

 

[Guadana]

Where? Everywhere. I can’t tell you why the Devils do or do not sign guys for AHL depth but they’re out there.

Devils used a 5th round pick on Shlaine, that’s effectively nothing. Shlaine may be good enough for an AHL role but if he won’t sign an AHL contract then what are you going to do? Making a big deal over something that isn’t a big deal doesn’t make sense to me.

Hand wringing over other late round draft picks that didn’t work out, just like almost every other late round draft pick just seems like wasted energy.


That’s fine. I’d love the Devils to attract top rookie free agents too.

Shlaine isn’t a top free agent once he gets there though.

He will not sign NHL deal anywhere.

5th round pick is still an asset, it still an opportunity to draft and develop players. Even good enough only for AHL.

So lack of good center depth show me that its not that easy to sign centers. At least for this organisation. May be its a lack of good centers, may be its an administration problem, may be someone in the management doesnt work with prospects enough to build clear and interesting path for them. Especially in case of Schleine where player will not have a chance to sign NHL deal. but would easily achieve good role in AHL if he is good enough in the organisation where he was drafted.

Its not a fresh news that Fitz or Fitz group are very passive in their AHL/depth prospects management. And Im not happy about it. Because "there are many centers on the market" isnt an excuse for wasting late picks and prospects they drafted by this picks.

 

[TrufleShufle]

It's not hard to understand why a guy drafted by an organization would feel rebuffed if they did not sign him by his senior year. Why not see if there is a better fit somewhere else? They had three years to sign him and passed for whatever reason.

Can I understand and sympathize while still hating him for the choice he made and feel personally attacked? All while forgetting he was even in the system until just now?

 

[forceten]

Wow, you folks are prolific posters in this thread over the last day or so. Difficult to catch up and I went to reply to a few things but realized it would be digging up zombies.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Wow, you folks are prolific posters in this thread over the last day or so. Difficult to catch up and I went to reply to a few things but realized it would be digging up zombies.

Thats what we do

 

[NjDevsRR]

I may need to get a Lazar road jersey. I like the player and the person

 

[NJDevs26]

Hmmmmm…

That would be the ultimate troll move if the Devils hired Bylsma now after everyone was waiting for Shero to do it here.

 

[Bad Goalie]

May be. But our center depth somewhere on the bottom of the sea. He could have a role in AHL. As you mentioned I dont think there is any team in NHL that will give him any opportunity in NHL now. So I dont understand why Devils are okay to let ~0.8 ppg(in his two last seasons) NCAA center go. Even with Parent in the roster.

Parent is not a center. He has played both the RW and the LW after just a couple looks at center. If they even thought there was a chance at center with the their obvious lack of centers he would have been playing there all season. Be has been jockeyed all over the 3 forward spots and up and down the lines like an afterthought. It has really affected his production. The NJ brass cannot pass up decent center prospects if they are right in their hands.

May be. But our center depth somewhere on the bottom of the sea. He could have a role in AHL. As you mentioned I dont think there is any team in NHL that will give him any opportunity in NHL now. So I dont understand why Devils are okay to let ~0.8 ppg(in his two last seasons) NCAA center go. Even with Parent in the roster.

You are so correct on the center issue.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I can’t see how it’s possibly the Devils’ choice or how having Parent on a pretty barren AHL team blocks more additions.

1) Holy crap, do we desperately need centers in our minors system. We don’t have any center prospects coming and we have nothing much there currently.

Utica is constantly forced to 1) put wingers at center 2) play a bottom six AHL checking center too high or 3) try to fill the spots with UFA signings.

1) and 2) is why Utica is such a offensively challenged slog.

3) is hard to do even when you’re willing to throw around a little money (and we are). There are very few true centers on the UFA market and we aren’t one of top tier team’s in terms of attracting UFAs (for Utica).

And the AHL is a development league, you can only have a few vets. You need lesser prospects on ELCs or AHL deals in the minors to be a good team. Even if they don’t make it to the NHL, a better, deeper team makes a better development system.

The most consistently successful teams sign a good amount of FA talent every year, there’s always a ton of turnover. We signed Parent 2 years ago, he could leave in the off-season.

Wendt is a very nice signing but we need guys who are actually f***ing centers, took face-offs, played that position, all that good stuff, grr

Just to be clear, I’m screaming to the void here, not raging at you or your post. This drives me crazy every year around this time.

How many times have we posted these points in the past 3 seasons? My head has so many permanent lumps from banging my head on this wall. I guess we just have to keep on trying. Maybe at some point someone with some pull will turn on management's light. I have to place a lot of concern in the lap of ASST GM MacKinnon, who holds the title of the Utica Comets GM.

 

[Guadana]

Parent is not a center. He has played both the RW and the LW after just a couple looks at center. If they even thought there was a chance at center with the their obvious lack of centers he would have been playing there all season. Be has been jockeyed all over the 3 forward spots and up and down the lines like an afterthought. It has really affected his production. The NJ brass cannot pass up decent center prospects if they are right in their hands.


You are so correct on the center issue.

Reason why I can’t understand why we are letting Boqvist go, trade Bardakov for barely Hockey player and do nothing with Schleine when AHL team is playing without any center depth, best center prospect is Salminen now, and NHL team can’t do shift when one of our top two centers are starting to cough.

 

[Bad Goalie]

It was a good signing, but not a center, and we don’t have much of anything at that position.

They can play Wendt there but forcing him to switch positions this late isn’t going to help his production. He was a 1RW this season.

Top teams who are successful year after year attract a good crop of FA talent every off-season for their minors systems.

It helps enormously with player development, with attracting better FAs in the future, and provides NHL depth. You don’t sign a guy every two years and call it a day.

People obviously don’t have care about this like I do, or pay attention to it like I do. I’m not pushing for people to get in the weeds with me, because I get way in there with following this market, but I stand by it being a useful part of a successful franchise.

It’s early April, I’m not burying the team here, but I’ll definitely want more. I assume they’re trying to get guys to sign AHL deals.

And my guess is Schlaine turned down an AHL deal from us.

I'm very comfortable in the weeds. If we aren't there, help will never come.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Reason why I can’t understand why we are letting Boqvist go, trade Bardakov for barely Hockey player and do nothing with Schleine when AHL team is playing without any center depth, best center prospect is Salminen now, and NHL team can’t do shift when one of our top two centers are starting to cough.

I told this site on day 1 3 seasons ago that here were no centers in Utica if NJ comes calling. I was told, "So many of the Devils forwards are also centers. They won't need anyone from Utica." I believe that philosophy was shared by Fitz and company. How did that work out?

 

[Guadana]

I told this site on day 1 3 seasons ago that here were no centers in Utica if NJ comes calling. I was told so many of the Devils are also centers. They won't need anyone from Utica. I believe that philosophy was shared by Fitz and company. How did that work out?

We svck.
If Fitz will not fill the organization by centers on this draft, it will be very bad. It was year ago - I could offer normal centers for 4th-5th rounds. But in the same time we need in goalies. So Fitz should work a lot on the market in many different ways(NHL, AHL, prospects depth), or The hole being dug will get deeper and deeper. Potentially, we have Gritsyuk and Hameenaho for the third line, but we do not have a player in the system at all who could potentially play with them for the long term.

 

[Triumph]

I can’t see how it’s possibly the Devils’ choice or how having Parent on a pretty barren AHL team blocks more additions.

1) Holy crap, do we desperately need centers in our minors system. We don’t have any center prospects coming and we have nothing much there currently.

Utica is constantly forced to 1) put wingers at center 2) play a bottom six AHL checking center too high or 3) try to fill the spots with UFA signings.

1) and 2) is why Utica is such a offensively challenged slog.

The reason why it could be the Devils' choice is precisely because the need is so high that it seems like it's a good fit, and it could only be the team thinking that maybe it isn't a good fit for it not to happen. There's no shortage of opportunity in Utica and there's good wingers to play with, so unless e.g. the Devils didn't want him to transfer or something else went awry in their relationship, it doesn't fully add up. I forget if Shlaine was at dev camp this past summer.

 

[Triumph]

It's not hard to understand why a guy drafted by an organization would feel rebuffed if they did not sign him by his senior year. Why not see if there is a better fit somewhere else? They had three years to sign him and passed for whatever reason.

I think most 4 year collegiate players that sign still sign with the organization that drafted them. Very few that go UFA get ELCs. It still makes the most sense to sign with the drafting organization, usually - they have the most familiarity with the player's game.

Mark Fayne went UFA and ended up signing with the Devils anyway.