Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Richer's Ghost]

Yeah, no shit but we're talking about the goalie situation, not the coaching.

I don't want the goalie situation to change unless it's some dimestore stopgap just to play the season out and give Daws a rest. Last thing I want is Markstrom coming in here winning games and breathing life into Lindy's job when everyone goes SEE IT WAS JUST THE GOALTENDING ALL ALONG.

NO THANKS.

 

[NiedermayerNades]

I don't want the goalie situation to change unless it's some dimestore stopgap just to play the season out and give Daws a rest. Last thing I want is Markstrom coming in here winning games and breathing life into Lindy's job when everyone goes SEE IT WAS JUST THE GOALTENDING ALL ALONG.

NO THANKS.

If the Devils arent acquiring Markstrom now they shouldn't be in the summer

Fitzgerald is in the business of making deals that work for us; not letting GMs of floundering teams with no real core try and bend us over a barrel

If Calgary wants to wait for more suitors than thats fine - let them find another home for the veteran. Zero reason to negotiate against ourselves for anything other than a top-5 goaltender, which he is not

Likely issue is Calgary wants Holtz and we wont move him; add in more contenders for the deal and all of a sudden Holtz isnt enough

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah...I'd much rather have Casey than a #28 through #32 draft pick.

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Nico, Bratt and Hughes are the core. They are the best part of this team.

Most of Fitz’s adds are bad.

Vitek: Bad
Graves: Everyone said he sucks.
Siegs: Bad for 1.5 seasons.
Marino: Bad this year.
Smith: Very bad/terrible penalties.
Luke: Will be good, no brainer pic.
Nemec: Rookie, great pic.

The defense is half the reason the Devils suck.

Mercer/Holtz our 3rd/4th line warriors: great picks.

Palat: Terrible contract, from the moment the ink hit the paper. Slow.
Meier: Should be a good signing, but hè red could end up worse than Palat.

Now do when he took over in 2020

Pavel Zacha
Wayne Simmonds
Nikita Gusev
Kevin Rooney
Expiring Kyle Palmieri
John Hayden

That was the good part now let's look at the goaltending and defense

PK Subban
Will Butcher
Sami Vatanen
Connor Carrick
Matt Tennyson
Dakota Mermis
Micro Mueller

Blackwood
Schneider
Domingue
Senn


This is the dog shit Fitz stepped into.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Nico, Bratt and Hughes are the core. They are the best part of this team.

Most of Fitz’s adds are bad.

Vitek: Bad
Graves: Everyone said he sucks.
Siegs: Bad for 1.5 seasons.
Marino: Bad this year.
Smith: Very bad/terrible penalties.
Luke: Will be good, no brainer pic.
Nemec: Rookie, great pic.

The defense is half the reason the Devils suck.

Mercer/Holtz our 3rd/4th line warriors: great picks.

Palat: Terrible contract, from the moment the ink hit the paper. Slow.
Meier: Should be a good signing, but hè red could end up worse than Palat.

Everyone was clicking last year and the team was healthy. Other teams picked up on how to play us and adjust. Lindy and his system/decision making didn't change enough. They tweaked the defensive system 50 games into the year when it should have been done earlier. You can't really claim that most of the moves Fitzgerald made were bad. The guy made big moves to make this a better team. It's a shame that not all of them will work out but right now Fitzgerald really deserve's the most flack for not firing Ruff. It's good to see a GM back his staff and support them but enough is enough. We can get upset after these losses and this season but you have to atleast be able to think clearly when the emotions settle down a bit. This team still has plenty of talent. They really just need to get a starting goalie and a new coach who will get these players back on track.

 

[JimEIV]

Everyone was clicking last year and the team was healthy. Other teams picked up on how to play us and adjust. Lindy and his system/decision making didn't change enough. They tweaked the defensive system 50 games into the year when it should have been done earlier. You can't really claim that most of the moves Fitzgerald made were bad. The guy made big moves to make this a better team. It's a shame that not all of them will work out but right now Fitzgerald really deserve's the most flack for not firing Ruff. It's good to see a GM back his staff and support them but enough is enough. We can get upset after these losses and this season but you have to atleast be able to think clearly when the emotions settle down a bit. This team still has plenty of talent. They really just need to get a starting goalie and a new coach who will get these players back on track.

I don't want to even give him flack for not firing Ruff....the team saw its first moments of legitimacy in 11 years last year under Ruff... even when we made the playoffs in 2018 we were Tampa's play toy in the first round.

With Ruff we set a franchise record for wins and won a playoff round....our Star player was seemingly very happy playing for him ...

How could a GM not be reluctant to move away from that?

 

[Guttersniped]

Devils arent missing out on a 23-yo whos regressed in his time in the KHL; odds are he will be back oversees by 2026, if he comes over in the first place

Wasnt worth signing to a 50-man roster spot

How f***ing valuable do think those 50 roster spots are?

Most teams don’t have all 50 spots taken and we have 47 after just signing a couple of guys.

It’s not like we’re going to have a gaggle of drafted prospects that we have to sign either. And I wish we attracted high-end NCAA & CHL FAs, but alas, we don’t.

This is the weirdest take. “Don’t waste that sweet contract slot on a 2 year ELC for the guy Wheeler just ranked as our 3rd best prospect.”

 

[MB3]

Fitz added Vitek, Hamilton, Marino, Siegenthaler, Graves drafted Luke and Nemec....added extras in Miller and Smith....the entire defense literally.

Brought in Palat, Haula, Toffolli, Meier, Lazar...drafted Mercer and Holtz.

Just need to verify that you’re considering the Palat, Graves, and Vanecek additions something worth celebrating. Word.

From the core, Nemec and Luke are Fitz’ additions. Luke, who is probably the most obvious pick in the history of the NHL draft, and Nemec, a guy he got because our rebuild fell so far off the rails they were bad enough to draft 2nd overall.

Then you laud him for Hamilton, a player he got simply because he offered him the most money on the most term. And you also laud him to Timo, a player I very much like but was undeniably an overpay — both in assets sent and in money handed out.

Mercer is great. Does he make up for choosing Chase Stillman? Or am I not allowed to be critical of shortcomings?

Marino was solid. Nice job Tommy. I don’t see a single other move he has made you can consider a slam dunk. In fact, I’d argue that entering this season with the goaltending situation as it was undoes any small shred of success he’s had in his time here.

 

[Triumph]

Agree to disagree when it comes to Casey - a 46th overall whos produced as he has likely raised his value to that of a late 1st

Not to mention its rare prospects are moved for 1sts in the first place; the idea is for his value to replace a 1st on our behalf, not to receive one

Its not at all far-fetched to assume a team wouldn't want a 1st rounder slotted 24-32 over Seamus Casey who'd be closer to an NHL debut and has progressed more than nicely.

It's far fetched to assume for several reasons - the reason why prospects don't move for 1sts is because teams like their prospects and other teams typically like other teams' prospects less; this is very obvious because of how the draft works where each team picks the guys they want. Teams think they can do better picking their guy than someone's else guy, and given that Casey was selected late in the 2nd round, most teams passed over him twice to select someone else.

I agree that Casey should be worth 24st-32ndish, but I don't think he is, and it's because if a GM is getting a 1st round pick in a trade and then using it, he's getting his guy, not someone else's guy. Plus he's letting the Devils cash out on someone to make a tidy profit, asset-wise. And why are they trading him, anyway? The history of prospects who were former 1st round picks who are traded ~2 years after being drafted is not very good. It's Filip Forsberg, Mikhail Sergachev, maybe a few other guys, and a lot of players who never made it.

The other major issue with dealing Casey is that as a college player he can just walk himself to UFA if he doesn't like where he's traded.

 

[Guadana]

Podkolzin, Turcott, Holloway would be good compensation for Toffoli. Sapovalov is an interesting option too. And Morozov's rights.

Kaliyev is a hard no.

 

[NiedermayerNades]

How f***ing valuable do think those 50 roster spots are?

Most teams don’t have all 50 spots taken and we have 47 after just signing a couple of guys.

It’s not like we’re going to have a gaggle of drafted prospects that we have to sign either. And I wish we attracted high-end NCAA & CHL FAs, but alas, we don’t.

This is the weirdest take. “Don’t waste that sweet contract slot on a 2 year ELC for the guy Wheeler just ranked as our 3rd best prospect.”

Its not about how valuable the contract slot is in general; its more about the contract slot given to a KHL player who Russian-local news has as likely staying another 2-3 years with SKA or Minsk

Id rather not give contract slot 47-48 to a player likely to never come over - or not until theyre guaranteed an NHL spot. And itd seem Fitz felt the same because I doubt there was any need to move out Zakhar without an inkling he wasnt coming over

 

[NiedermayerNades]

It's far fetched to assume for several reasons - the reason why prospects don't move for 1sts is because teams like their prospects and other teams typically like other teams' prospects less; this is very obvious because of how the draft works where each team picks the guys they want. Teams think they can do better picking their guy than someone's else guy, and given that Casey was selected late in the 2nd round, most teams passed over him twice to select someone else.

I agree that Casey should be worth 24st-32ndish, but I don't think he is, and it's because if a GM is getting a 1st round pick in a trade and then using it, he's getting his guy, not someone else's guy. Plus he's letting the Devils cash out on someone to make a tidy profit, asset-wise. And why are they trading him, anyway? The history of prospects who were former 1st round picks who are traded ~2 years after being drafted is not very good. It's Filip Forsberg, Mikhail Sergachev, maybe a few other guys, and a lot of players who never made it.

The other major issue with dealing Casey is that as a college player he can just walk himself to UFA if he doesn't like where he's traded.

It also stings, at least as a fan, that Seamus grew up a Devils fan

 

[JimEIV]

Just need to verify that you’re considering the Palat, Graves, and Vanecek additions something worth celebrating. Word.

I suppose we would better off with Domingue, Gusev and Micro Mueller....those stellar pieces to build around. Word.

But wait they're all out of hockey!

Nearly every piece Fitzgerald was left with is out of hockey today...some f***ing inheritance.

 

[Guttersniped]

Its not about how valuable the contract slot is in general; its more about the contract slot given to a KHL player who Russian-local news has as likely staying another 2-3 years with SKA or Minsk

Id rather not give contract slot 47-48 to a player likely to never come over - or not until theyre guaranteed an NHL spot. And itd seem Fitz felt the same because I doubt there was any need to move out Zakhar without an inkling he wasnt coming over

What local Russian news are you personally accessing that says he’s likely staying another “2-3 years”?

Is your “source” saying that’s 2-3 years after his contract is over in 2024-25?

He’ll be 24 when that deal ends in 2025, so now that I think about it, I believe he can only get a 1 year ELC.

And if Gritsyuk ends up re-signing for 2 more years after his current deal ends, you’re in luck, that means he’s most likely not coming over and will become an afterthought at best.

But if he doesn’t re-sign, and I’m a bit skeptical about your sources, I don’t see why we couldn’t give him a shot.

Your fear of giving a contract slot “to a player likely to never come over” is unwarranted, he’s not getting signed if he isn’t coming over.

If he comes over, and then it doesn’t work out and he wants to go back to the KHL, they can mutually terminate his contract.

The trade talk is just odd, Gritsyuk doesn’t have much trade value at all unsigned, certainly much less than Holtz or Daws.

And no, the Bardakov trade doesn’t mean Fitz “feels the same way” as you and believes whatever all this is.


Edit:

Really, don’t.

 

[NiedermayerNades]

What local Russian news are you personally accessing that says he’s likely staying another “2-3 years”?

Is your “source” saying that’s 2-3 years after his contract is over in 2024-25?

He’ll be 24 when that deal ends in 2025, so now that I think about it, I believe he can only get a 1 year ELC.

And if Gritsyuk ends up re-signing for 2 more years after his current deal ends, you’re in luck, that means he’s most likely not coming over and will become an afterthought at best.

But if he doesn’t re-sign, and I’m a bit skeptical about your sources, I don’t see why we couldn’t give him a shot.

Your fear of giving a contract slot “to a player likely to never come over” is unwarranted, he’s not getting signed if he isn’t coming over.

If he comes over, and then it doesn’t work out and he wants to go back to the KHL, they can mutually terminate his contract.

The trade talk is just odd, Gritsyuk doesn’t have much trade value at all unsigned, certainly much less than Holtz or Daws.

And no, the Bardakov trade doesn’t mean Fitz “feels the same way” as you and believes whatever all this is.

It was doubly cited above by a poster with Russia as their location but it was rumored on a KHL fan site Zakhar has purchased property and was in contract negotiations with SKA.

Ive also yet to hear a reason why he was moved for a player who will get 2-4 minutes a game; so if that was somehow our third best prospect, according to whoever 'Wheeler' is, then that seems like quite the oversight on Fitzgerald's part

Odds are its your typical case of a Russian staying in the K and there isnt much to do about it; dont see why that is hard to believe considering it is the standard for such lower-end draft picks from there

And whoever 'Wheeler' is should probably take a second look at Bardakov because Im not quite sure what they're seeing; Gritsyuk is our third best prospect IMO behind Hameenaho and Casey

 

[Guttersniped]

I suppose we would better off with Domingue, Gusev and Micro Mueller....those stellar pieces to build around. Word.

But wait they're all out of hockey!

Nearly every piece Fitzgerald was left with is out of hockey today...some f***ing inheritance.

Hey, Fitzgerald built the foundation of our defense.

He got Bahl in the Hall trade and then he, uh… yeah, he got Bahl. That was cool.

Those lottery wins were something though, right?

 

[glenwo2]

Yeah, no shit but we're talking about the goalie situation, not the coaching.

Well getting Markstrom would be a mistake, first of all.

Unless you have another idea I haven't read here.....I'm all ears, man.


That's why I brought up Coaching as the more DO-able possibility.

 

[Guttersniped]

It was doubly cited above by a poster with Russia as their location but it was rumored on a KHL fan site Zakhar has purchased property and was in contract negotiations with SKA.

Ive also yet to hear a reason why he was moved for a player who will get 2-4 minutes a game; so if that was somehow our third best prospect, according to whoever 'Wheeler' is, then that seems like quite the oversight on Fitzgerald's part

Odds are its your typical case of a Russian staying in the K and there isnt much to do about it; dont see why that is hard to believe considering it is the standard for such lower-end draft picks from there

And whoever 'Wheeler' is should probably take a second look at Bardakov because Im not quite sure what they're seeing; Gritsyuk is our third best prospect IMO behind Hameenaho and Casey

Wheeler is the Athletic prospect writer and he said Gritsyuk was our 3rd best prospect.

It’s a bit late and I can’t tell when you’re talking about Bardakov vs when you’re talking about Gritsyuk, so I’m going to give up trying to follow what you’re saying.

I didn’t know you went from “trade Gritsyuk” to talking about a guy we already traded.

 

[NiedermayerNades]

Wheeler is the Athletic prospect writer and he said Gritsyuk was our 3rd best prospect.

It’s a bit late and I can’t tell when you’re talking about Bardakov vs when you’re talking about Gritsyuk, so I’m going to give up trying to follow what you’re saying.

I didn’t know you went from “trade Gritsyuk” to talking about a guy we already traded.

It is late so thats understandable. I originally posted about Casey and Gritsyuk as useable assets for a goaltender or defenseman; this then parlayed into a conversation about trading for a goon, in which I felt Bardakov had negative value as an empty contract slot and hence was included in the deal where Colorado has extra spaces due to a lack of prospects

Bardakov is very likely staying in Russia with SKA as I said was rumored and would not have came over; thus Fitzgetald moved on as an effort to save a contract slot in the summer IMO, where we may acquire more.. 'rosterable' talent than we move out

Bardakov didnt play as well this season IMO and regressed, all while being bumped up the lineup. Id argue he was worth less than a 7th as an overager far from coming over

 

[MadDevil]

Fitz didn't have a great season but let's calm down a bit with the he should be fired or didn't do a good job of building a team that just had a franchise best regular season a year ago talk. He obviously misjudged the goaltending and probably the difficulty in working young defenseman into key roles (although a completely healthy Dougie and last year's versions of Marino and Siegenthaler would likely have helped alleviate some of that).

He's obviously looking to address goaltending if we were rumored to be in on Saros and are willing to take Markstrom at full price. Now I do think he should have shown a little more urgency in at least doing something to help it, even if he's not willing to bite the bullet on a bigger move there are cheaper options that could potentially have helped (although it's always a crapshoot with those types).

I do wonder how much him not getting a goalie plays into him not getting rid of Ruff yet. If he thinks he didn't give Ruff the horses to win, he might be cutting him more slack. Which obviously isn't a great look on Fitz, but he deserves a chance to fix those mistakes before even considering making a GM change. Yet another failed rebuild would look really bad on this ownership group, but I guess that opens that can of worms too. Is there any pressure from above Fitz to make changes?

 

[Guttersniped]

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Nico, Bratt and Hughes are the core. They are the best part of this team.

Most of Fitz’s adds are bad.

Vitek: Bad
Graves: Everyone said he sucks.
Siegs: Bad for 1.5 seasons.
Marino: Bad this year.
Smith: Very bad/terrible penalties.
Luke: Will be good, no brainer pic.
Nemec: Rookie, great pic.

The defense is half the reason the Devils suck.

Mercer/Holtz our 3rd/4th line warriors: great picks.

Palat: Terrible contract, from the moment the ink hit the paper. Slow.
Meier: Should be a good signing, but hè red could end up worse than Palat.

“Graves: Everyone says he sucks”

Well then, who can argue with that?

 

[NiedermayerNades]

I suspect Fitzgerald's biggest mistakes this year were the following;

1) not having the foresight to see the historical change in standings was more talent based than coaching (who could have?) and letting Brunette go

2) playing hardball too long with Cheveldayoff and giving Hellebyuck time to see change from within (PLD as well as assistant coaching)

3) (tied in to part 1) not moving on from Ruff around early January when the writing was on the wall with goaltending and the defense post-Hamilton

He will do alright to fix this up but it will now cost us some assets we'd have saved otherwise; patience is a virtue but too much of it is a detriment

Id move Toffoli and Miller for whatever we can get and reassess; perhaps let Ruff go now but that could end up more of a pain than itd help. Id pull the trigger but what do I know

 

[dzubrus8]

I think I remember seeing he compares pretty favorably to some of the good players to come out of the KHL at the same age.

That’s good. The performance gap is very real across the high performing KHLers that have moved out here - Panarin, Kaprizov, Shipachyov, Gusev, Radulov, Dadonov, etc etc

 

[NiedermayerNades]

I also dont see a world where Ruff is let go this year if he hasnt been already, unfortunately

Question then is how many games does he get next season to right the ship? Or if he is let go in the offseason.. why didnt you do it during the playoff race?

Though these are questions I doubt we ever get answers to - what with Fitzgerald being one of the least outgoing or publicly-available GMs in the league

 

[Lou is God]

Well getting Markstrom would be a mistake, first of all.

Unless you have another idea I haven't read here.....I'm all ears, man.


That's why I brought up Coaching as the more DO-able possibility.

Dude, wtf are you talking about? When the hell did I say we should trade for anyone let alone Markstrom. Maybe go back and reread what I said.

 

[glenwo2]

Dude, wtf are you talking about? When the hell did I say we should trade for anyone let alone Markstrom. Maybe go back and reread what I said.

Excuse me...but why don't you calm down and stop giving me attitude, huh?

I'm trying to be civil here but you're making things very difficult.

I was merely stating the obvious.

I was not accusing you of anything.


I'm just pointing out what can be done at this juncture.

Yes, we're talking about goaltending but I am also talking about Coaching, too.

It's not an either/or situation.

Not sure why I'm getting my head chewed off here for stating my two cents.....