Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[JimEIV]

You’re just naming bad hockey players and saying Fitz saved us from them, as if other GMs wouldn’t have also moved on from those bad hockey players. You mention Vanecek and say he’s better than Domingue — sure! But Domingue was a developmental goalie in a developmental season and it didn’t work out. I find that infinitely easier to apologize for than rolling with Vanecek in 2023, seeing how horrific Vanecek has been in 2023 and then failing to do anything to address it.

The team is built on the backs of terrible seasons resulting in high quality draft picks. I am happy for you that you attribute that success to Fitzgerald, but aside from Marino was there one move where you can point to and say “wow, hell of a job by Fitzgerald there.”

86, 13, and 63 were inherited. 17 and 43 were drafted at the top of the lottery. Who is the guy you’re hanging your hat on? Who is “Fitz’ guy!!!” that makes up for the fact that he sat with his thumb in his ass while his team flopped around like a dying bird?

The one thing I love about Fitz so far has been the contracts he handed out to the core. That took balls and it’s paying off. But having a young core playing on great contracts is a depreciating win, every year you flounder in the playoffs or miss them altogether makes your big win look less successful. (The ancillary contracts, like the ones he gave to Palat and Haula, don’t have the same smell).

There’s (still) no goalie. The defensive depth is absolutely horrific. The best young coach in the NHL was on the bench last season and left, while the team got another year of “has never won shit, will never win shit, drives for 24 miles with his left blinker on and leaves his reading glasses on the top of his car” Lindy Ruff.

This season is a failure of epic proportions and it is squarely on the shoulders of Tom Fitzgerald. The Devils lost Brunette and replaced him with Travis Green. They declined to re-sign Severson and Graves and replaced them with Colin Miller and an expanded role for Brendan Smith. They traded Sharangovich for Toffoli, which looks like a lateral move at best. Then, when the goalies couldn’t stop a beach ball and the system was getting openly mocked on every single sports broadcast in the US and Canada, he did absolutely nothing.

Oh wait, he traded a top organizational prospect for Cam Janssen.

This is the roster Fitz inherited.
Don't take my word for it. Look at roster

Look it over. It's dog shit

2019-20 New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

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Fitz was left with a 34 year old Travis Zajac, A 37 year old Andy Greene that was still far and away the teams best defender...and that's no saying much. A broken down Cory Schneider that already passed through waivers and no goaltender anywhere.

Fitz's first action was trading Coleman. Then Wayne Simmonds and Sami Vatanen.


Fitz immediately brought in Ryan Murray and Demetri Kulikov...2 better defenders than Shero brought in 5 years as GM...later on in 2021 he traded for Siegenthaler....

In 2020 Travis Zajac was still our Average Time on ice leader among forwards and Severson and Andy Greene led the the entire team in ATOI

The team Tom inherited was still Lou heavy with Zajac, Wood, Greene, Severson, Coleman....no goaltending, no defense...no forwards after Bratt, Nico and Jack.

Makes you wonder what the f*** was Shero doing for 5 years?

 

[Saugus]

Do Leach and Fitz have some connections in their life?

You guys need to create some party, send fake invitations, meet them, job done.

Leach played for the Devils once upon a time, but that probably doesn't mean much given how long ago it was.

I wonder if Fitz has any connection to Sullivan from his time in Pittsburgh. If Sullivan gets fired, that's where he might look.

 

[Mgd31]

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If we could close our eyes and age Luke/Nemec 3 years, I'd agree our defense is fine as-is. But since we can't, it's baffling that you think Hamilton (injured) - Marino (horrid year) - Miller (lmao) and Nemec (small, adorable tiny baby deer) is "incredible depth."

"Given what Fitz inherited" is exhausting. The Devils fired Ray Shero 4 years ago. The Devils have had 4 drafts and 4 offseasons loaded with cap space and draft picks to address the holes in the team's roster construction. Entering this season without replacing Severson or Graves with anyone other than Colin f***ing Miller was a disasterclass of a move.

Address those "too many inaccuracies" then. How many times has Brendan Smith been health bombed this year? An injury and a suspension are the only reasons he won't play a full slate of games this year. The fact that Tom Fitzgerald counted on him playing a key role on this hockey team after seeing what he did last year is baffling.

Keep going. There are so many inaccuracies. Address them! Or are you just going to "etc. etc." your way through another post without actually having any substance to those et ceteras?

How the hell does Hamilton getting injured and Marino having a weirdly off year have anything to do with Tom Fitzgerald? Miller has been a terrific low cost acquisition and was the far better option than the deal Severson signed, so I don’t get the snide remark.

What are you blathering about, we replaced Severson and Graves (both signed awful deals) with Luke, Miller, and Nemec? Nemec wasn’t even on the roster before our number 1 dman got hurt.

You’re obviously just basing all of this bullshit on hindsight. Wow, a team’s depth got tested when they lost their top defenseman. Show me an option that was better than Nemec to fill those minutes. Please, take the time to find a right handed dman that moved that is currently better than him.

 

[My3Sons]

Presumably they have some idea of how their cap will look with the next contracts for Luke Hughes, Nemec, Mercer, and Holtz and a Vanacek replacement and think that there is somehow room there for Toffoli on top of that. Otherwise, something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[FinnishDevil]

If Toffoli is signed to long term deal then Fitz needs to be fired into the sun.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

If Toffoli is signed to long term deal then Fitz needs to be fired into the sun.

Honestly starting to question him a lot. Keeping Toffoli is madness. The guy can’t move.

 

[RSeen]

I think if we were to act out of desperation we would have already.

But if we don't trade for Markstrom now, I don't think we'll trade for him in the off-season. I think we'll go the long-term route instead the short term fix

Problem is, it might be hard to find a long-term solution. Rumours are Markstrom is our #1 target, which doesn't make sense considering his age.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I am one of the few who would like to see Toffoli on the roster with some more structure, however if we're to extend him, it better be somewhat team friendly. I won't react either way until I see what the numbers would come out to be.

 

[MadDevil]

I'd rather trade Toffoli and get some assets, but I'm not going to lose it if they bring him back either, at least as long as it's only a 2-3 year deal. Anything longer would be bad.

 

[RSeen]

If Toffoli is signed to long term deal then Fitz needs to be fired into the sun.

Terrible. Just capitalize and move on. We don't need more bad contracts.

I'd rather trade Toffoli and get some assets, but I'm not going to lose it if they bring him back either, at least as long as it's only a 2-3 year deal. Anything longer would be bad.

What is the likelihood it is short-term? Toffoli has leverage here and hasn't had a massive payday yet.

 

[captainscott2]

This is the roster Fitz inherited.
Don't take my word for it. Look at roster

Look it over. It's dog shit

2019-20 New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Fitz was left with a 34 year old Travis Zajac, A 37 year old Andy Greene that was still far and away the teams best defender...and that's no saying much. A broken down Cory Schneider that already passed through waivers and no goaltender anywhere.

Fitz's first action was trading Coleman. Then Wayne Simmonds and Sami Vatanen.


Fitz immediately brought in Ryan Murray and Demetri Kulikov...2 better defenders than Shero brought in 5 years as GM...later on in 2021 year he traded for Siegenthaler....

In 2020 Travis Zajac was still our Average Time on ice leader among forwards and Severson and Andy Greene led the the entire team in ATOI

The team Tom inherited was still Lou heavy with Zajac, Wood, Greene, Severson, Coleman....no goaltending, no defense...no forwards after Bratt, Nico and Jack.

Makes you wonder what the f*** was Shero doing for 5 years?

you just listed 2 defensman that are better than anyone we have

If Toffoli is signed to long term deal then Fitz needs to be fired into the sun.

agreed

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I'd rather trade Toffoli and get some assets, but I'm not going to lose it if they bring him back either, at least as long as it's only a 2-3 year deal. Anything longer would be bad.

If they can’t get him signed to a friendly deal (and why would Toffoli do that anyway on likely his last big deal?) he HAS to be moved this week.

 

[Mgd31]

Toffoli had good underlyings (especially defensively) last year so maybe he will be better with a new coach/system.

But I would not want anything over 3 years. If not just trade him.

 

[Forge]

I'd rather trade Toffoli and get some assets, but I'm not going to lose it if they bring him back either, at least as long as it's only a 2-3 year deal. Anything longer would be bad.

I imagine at the very least he gets 4 years and I think there's probably a good chance he gets 5.

 

[captainscott2]

This is the roster Fitz inherited.
Don't take my word for it. Look at roster

Look it over. It's dog shit

2019-20 New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New Jersey Devils Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Fitz was left with a 34 year old Travis Zajac, A 37 year old Andy Greene that was still far and away the teams best defender...and that's no saying much. A broken down Cory Schneider that already passed through waivers and no goaltender anywhere.

Fitz's first action was trading Coleman. Then Wayne Simmonds and Sami Vatanen.


Fitz immediately brought in Ryan Murray and Demetri Kulikov...2 better defenders than Shero brought in 5 years as GM...later on in 2021 year he traded for Siegenthaler....

In 2020 Travis Zajac was still our Average Time on ice leader among forwards and Severson and Andy Greene led the the entire team in ATOI

The team Tom inherited was still Lou heavy with Zajac, Wood, Greene, Severson, Coleman....no goaltending, no defense...no forwards after Bratt, Nico and Jack.

Makes you wonder what the f*** was Shero doing for 5 years?

Shero built up unlimited cap space for fitz to play with ... shero deserves a lot of credit for the freedom it allowed for fitz... jury will still be out on fitz but shero deserves a lot of credit for making the hard choices and being patient

 

[forceten]

It is late so thats understandable. I originally posted about Casey and Gritsyuk as useable assets for a goaltender or defenseman; this then parlayed into a conversation about trading for a goon, in which I felt Bardakov had negative value as an empty contract slot and hence was included in the deal where Colorado has extra spaces due to a lack of prospects

Bardakov is very likely staying in Russia with SKA as I said was rumored and would not have came over; thus Fitzgetald moved on as an effort to save a contract slot in the summer IMO, where we may acquire more.. 'rosterable' talent than we move out

Bardakov didnt play as well this season IMO and regressed, all while being bumped up the lineup. Id argue he was worth less than a 7th as an overager far from coming over

I think Bardakov slotted into the bottom six checking center role quite well in the KHL. He was never thought to be an offensive player, but a solid 3C/4C which **checks notes** our system ENTIRELY lacks, from the NHL down. He was one of the rare centers in our depth pool anywhere. If any kid in Russia had the chance to step in and make an NHL roster from the KHL tomorrow it was him.

Also, you keep making the error of confusing reserve list slots (of which a team has 90) and NHL contract slots (of which a team has 50 and as @Guttersniped pointed out, most teams don't have 50 signed and when they do they toss away some in trades to ease it, which is how we got 4 additional players from the Sharks in the Meier trade and lucked out with Hatakka being able to get healthy again and being a legitimate NHL prospect).

If Bardakov came over and made the NHL team, he would take up a roster slot but on the NHL team. He would not be taking up a roster spot playing in the EIHL for Leeds.

 

[captainscott2]

Toffoli had good underlyings (especially defensively) last year so maybe he will be better with a new coach/system.

But I would not want anything over 3 years. If not just trade him.

Taffoli is a good player its not that... its do we need this type of player eating up a lot of cap space... if we can unload palat somehow I am all for it..

 

[MB3]

How the hell does Hamilton getting injured and Marino having a weirdly off year have anything to do with Tom Fitzgerald? Miller has been a terrific low cost acquisition and was the far better option than the deal Severson signed, so I don’t get the snide remark.

What are you blathering about, we replaced Severson and Graves (both signed awful deals) with Luke, Miller, and Nemec? Nemec wasn’t even on the roster before our number 1 dman got hurt.

You’re obviously just basing all of this bullshit on hindsight. Wow, a team’s depth got tested when they lost their top defenseman. Show me an option that was better than Nemec to fill those minutes. Please, take the time to find a right handed dman that moved that is currently better than him.

You seem to be under the misimpression that I am a qualified NHL General Manager and upset I wasn't selected for this role.

Of f***ing course I'm basing this on hindsight. How else should a residential architect in Florida evaluate his favorite team's moves? I don't get paid millions of dollars to run things.

The right side of the Devils defense is fine, I haven't argued that point. The left side is an unmitigated disaster, with Luke very obviously not ready to eat major minutes Fitz absolutely needed to bring someone else in. I will die on that hill even if you won't.

I'm "blathering" about the fact that Fitz came into this season without replacing 2 major minute-eating defenseman, without making any additions to the goaltending, and without keeping our future-jack-adams-winning coach instead of a guy who still orders rice pudding.

I'm blathering about the fact that when the season started, and Dougie went down, and the goalies posted game-after-game-after-game-after-game lines of 17 S, 4 G, and the coaching staff became an absolute mockery, he did nothing. This season could have been salvaged. He let it get away.

 

[Triumph]

Until the deadline, nothing means anything in terms of rumors. We do know that Fitz has been somewhat reluctant to sell certain players in the past and has preferred instead to keep players if he's not getting the price he wants.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Not sure if anyone saw this quick tidbit from Jeff Marek’s blog post today:

• Is the New Jersey Devils' bigger issue goaltending or a lack of blueliners who can defend? Some around the league believe the Devils' goalies are getting an unfair ride when the real issue exists in front of them.

Food for thought. I mean I don’t disagree but I think the goaltending certainly cannot be overlooked at all because it’s still probably the crux of the issues. But I would say also comes back to coaching and lack of any true structure to fall back on.

Never believe it's just one thing still a team game usually every part of the team is dependent on the other....The Coach is problem number 1....

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I'd rather trade Toffoli and get some assets, but I'm not going to lose it if they bring him back either, at least as long as it's only a 2-3 year deal. Anything longer would be bad.

I can't see it being less than 4, but I'm thinking more likely 5.

 

[Devils731]

Until the deadline, nothing means anything in terms of rumors. We do know that Fitz has been somewhat reluctant to sell certain players in the past and has preferred instead to keep players if he's not getting the price he wants.

I was just about to post the same.

It’s smoke screen season everyone.

The Devils may want to keep Toffoli but even if they want to trade him, they’re going to say they’re planning on keeping him.

 

[Zippy316]

On the latest 32 thoughts, Friedman is saying the Markstrom deal may have fallen apart because Calgary just backed out thinking they could make the playoffs. Markstrom was definitely told about the trade though, so it must have been agreed upon or damn close to it.

Says a source questions the idea that retention killed the deal.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I think this is a ploy to up the package for him.