Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[NjDevsRR]

 

[JimEIV]

You literally won with the “this hand can’t win” in this scenario so your conclusion that thinking “any hand can win” is delusional is disproven by your own scenario.

To relate back to hockey, the other teams are playing crappy. They’ve given the chance for the Devils to find the straight when they should already be drawing dead.

Well it actually is very analogous to the situation we're in right now...because we need three or four teams ahead of us to play their hands like shit and we need a miracle 2 3 off to hit the flop perfectly so your analogy is spot on.

Just not probable.

 

[Andre Palot]

My prediction is an OT loss where everyone beats their chest over how well we play but since we never actually beat Winnipeg I can’t predict a win, then lose 4-2 on Saturday with Brady getting at least two goals

Knowing this team?

Toffoli hat trick or Miller goal. OR some scrub AHLer gets his first NHL goal.

 

[Triumph]

Made up? Athletes for as long as I can remember have talked about relishing being spoilers....what is that? Is that fake?

That's a shit team beating a good team ...a shit team with nothing to lose motivated by beating a better team with everything to lose....players talk about it openly in every sport in every year....it's not made up. I know people like you hate the unquantifiable like "clutch"...or anything that skews the final tally on the spreadsheet like garbage goals and junk time...but anyone watching knows these things are real....and it isfunny that we have had these conversations year after year....of course in garbage time .

As far as a 70 point team....This is a bad team and my guess is we'll finish somewhere around 82/84 points...a little worse or right around the same as the 2016 team final results.

That's MY point. Most players are playing to win all the time, whether they are on good teams or bad teams. Occasionally you can get a late season game between a team whose playoff spot is sewn up and a team that's playing out the string and yeah, that can mean less, but the Devils are in the playoff race, and they are trying to win games, and their opponents are largely in the playoff race, and they are trying to win games. This is the default mode of team sports. That's why 'garbage time' doesn't exist, there's no time when the 'pressure is off' - it all counts.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Probably have to move Mercer/Holtz, Casey, 1st, other pieces

I wouldn’t move Bratt, would be a lateral move in production

I'd move Bratt in a second. You're getting a Captain-type leadership guy who won't disappear in the playoffs and is less likely to get killed. I don't care if that means a few less regular season points.

 

[JimEIV]

That's MY point. Most players are playing to win all the time, whether they are on good teams or bad teams. Occasionally you can get a late season game between a team whose playoff spot is sewn up and a team that's playing out the string and yeah, that can mean less, but the Devils are in the playoff race, and they are trying to win games, and their opponents are largely in the playoff race, and they are trying to win games. This is the default mode of team sports. That's why 'garbage time' doesn't exist, there's no time when the 'pressure is off' - it all counts.

That's just not true...How many times have you seen a team just give up after a bad goal? It happens all the time...you are just way too dismissive of the human side


There are going to be games in the next bunch were players are actually going to be rested.

Just think of that act for a moment and what it represents.

There are going to be teams that believe this particular regular season game is not important enough to play my best players.

That's one tiny example. High end players getting reduced minutes, second goalies playing a little more frequently, sitting players that might a little banged up...those things are reducing the odds of a win....it happens all the time every year... that's just the strategic side...none of that address human nature and what any of that does to determination.

I would imagine if you are an extra coming in to replace a resting superstar you are going to be highly motivated to prove you belong ...but the superstar's linemates might not be all that motivated to playing without him. How are you you going to sweep these things under the rug? If your team is comfortably in the top 3 of the conference how motivated are you going to be to play 16th team in the conference in game 75 of the season? Maybe bonus thresholds? If I'm Boston I'm not all that excited to play Columbus on Tuesday night in April after I have locked up the division.

 

[My3Sons]

That's MY point. Most players are playing to win all the time, whether they are on good teams or bad teams. Occasionally you can get a late season game between a team whose playoff spot is sewn up and a team that's playing out the string and yeah, that can mean less, but the Devils are in the playoff race, and they are trying to win games, and their opponents are largely in the playoff race, and they are trying to win games. This is the default mode of team sports. That's why 'garbage time' doesn't exist, there's no time when the 'pressure is off' - it all counts.

There can be. It depends. In the old days, before wild cards, you either won the AL East or you didn't. Maybe the Yankees and Red Sox played games with playoff implications in September but if you were Toronto or Baltimore you were playing for pride by then. Sure, in any pro sport there is a level of pressure just be being there. Every team has piles of guys at virtually every position looking to take your spot. Look at a guy like Mercer. He's struggled this season and now he's got to negotiate a contract. In a different organization maybe he'd get traded. But some games are more meaningful than others in my view. It also depends upon whose point of view you look at. From the players point of view it always matters, as I'm suggesting. From the fans and management's point of view it's hard to say they see all games equally. Just my thoughts.

 

[Triumph]

That's just not true...How many times have you seen a team just give up after a bad goal? It happens all the time...you are just way too dismissive of the human side

And then how many times do you see that team come back and win the game? That happens too.

The are going to be games in the next bunch were players are actually going to be rested.

Just think of that act for a moment and what it represents.

There are going to be teams that believe this particular regular season game is not important enough to play my best players.

I didn't explicitly mention that but I was alluding to it. It makes up a tiny minority of games.

That's one tiny example. High end players getting reduced minutes, second goalies playing a little more frequently, sitting players that might a little banged up...those things are reducing the odds of a win....it happens all the time every year... that's just the strategic side...none of that address human nature and what any of that does to determination.

I would imagine if you are an extra coming in to replace a resting superstar you are going to be highly motivated to prove you belong ...but the superstar's linemates might not be all that motivated to playing without him. How are you you going to sweep these things under the rug? If your team is comfortably in the top 3 of the conference how motivated are you going to be to play 16th team in the conference in game 75 of the season? Maybe bonus thresholds? If I'm Boston I'm not all that excited to play Columbus on Tuesday night in April after I have locked up the division.

I'm sure Boston's not all that thrilled but guess what, sometimes they roll up on teams down in the standings regardless. I've seen enough Devils teams play out the string with some real dismal results to not think that hey, this isn't any different from any other time of year. Yes, sometimes teams rest their best players, that is rare and might happen in 40 total games, of which the Devils might play in 1 or 2 of them.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Jesper Bratt is a better player than Brady Tkachuk. Why would we trade Bratt straight up for him?

Over the past 2 years, Bratt has better advanced metrics and they basically have the exact same total # of points.

Again, I've said this before, I think Brady is a nice player. He is not his brother.

I would make that move bc I think he's likely to play more like his brother than Bratt would in the playoffs, and once games are meaningful and physical.

It isn't really surprising that some of our smaller guys disappeared down the stretch and got alligator arms after we played some games where we got physically pummelled.

Jack is having trouble holding on to the puck long enough to complete a pass and it seems like only Meier is thriving.

Only against super soft Pitt did we look like we are playing our game.

 

[NJDfan86]

I'd move Bratt in a second. You're getting a Captain-type leadership guy who won't disappear in the playoffs and is less likely to get killed. I don't care if that means a few less regular season points.

Brady Tkachuk has never even been to the playoffs, and is currently captaining the one of biggest disappointments in the NHL.

Also - the idea that anyone will be able to "kill" Jesper Brett has no basis in reality - no one has been able to catch him clean because he has fantastic spacial awareness and can move in circles around anyone, that's just as important as being big.

If Brady Tkachuk had a different last name people would care less about him - he is mildly interesting in that he hasn't seen a shot or hit he won't take/dish - regardless of the outcome.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Not sure if this was talked about but I mean if that's what Rags fans wanna waste their $25 on then good for Amanda but she really should have been able to figure out who it was for lol...

 

[AfroThunder396]

If the team thinks it's garbage time but still trots out Jack Hughes to play with one dangling arm, then everyone in the building from Fitzgerald to the janitor needs to be fired.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Brady Tkachuk has never even been to the playoffs, and is currently captaining the one of biggest disappointments in the NHL.

Also - the idea that anyone will be able to "kill" Jesper Brett has no basis in reality - no one has been able to catch him clean because he has fantastic spacial awareness and can move in circles around anyone, that's just as important as being big.

Less so, if you become a fairly useless perimeter player bc you are dancing out of the way all the time, don't make or cleanly receive passes bc you run out of time, and stop driving to the net.

I like Jasper Bratt more than I like most of our players and I'd keep him above almost all of our forwards, but I think it's pretty safe to project that Tkachuk is one of the few players that represent exactly what we are needing to win.

Wasn’t implying that. But I don’t think removing one of our captains best friends and one of the leagues best transition forwards is wise.

Adding Brady to what we have should be the goal


Tkachuk Hughes Bratt
Palat Hischier Meier

Oh My

If you can add without subtraction, 'oh my' is right.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I would simply not trade one of the best wings on one of the best value contracts in the NHL

 

[billingtons ghost]

i love how mercers 20 goals is a disappointment while the rangers 1st overall pick that year hit 20 playing with much better line mates and they’re celebrating his “breakout”

I think it's just the consistency.

Mercer is straight up streaky, so like 9 of those goals came in one short stretch and he was invisible for sixty something games.

He plays last game like he was shot out of a cannon and you feel like he should score forty.

He's going to be a great player, especially in a couple of years with a little more strength and determination.

 

[JimEIV]

Brady Tkachuk has never even been to the playoffs, and is currently captaining the one of biggest disappointments in the NHL.

Also - the idea that anyone will be able to "kill" Jesper Brett has no basis in reality - no one has been able to catch him clean because he has fantastic spacial awareness and can move in circles around anyone, that's just as important as being big.

If Brady Tkachuk had a different last name people would care less about him - he is mildly interesting in that he hasn't seen a shot or hit he won't take/dish - regardless of the outcome.

I think it's more that he's 6'4'' 220 lbs, willing to fight, has scored 30 goals in each of the last 3 seasons on a bad team....than his last name

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

willing to fight? well damn that changes everything!!

You know, because there are so many fights in the playoffs.

 

[JimEIV]

If the team thinks it's garbage time but still trots out Jack Hughes to play with one dangling arm, then everyone in the building from Fitzgerald to the janitor needs to be fired.

I'd imagine that sentence would work with "if the team does not think it's garbage time " just the same.

I like Jasper Bratt more than I like most of our players and I'd keep him above almost all of our forwards, but I think it's pretty safe to project that Tkachuk is one of the few players that represent exactly what we are needing to win.

This is my thought exactly.

 

[MadDevil]

Ah, so we've moved on to the "Bratt is a small soft Euro who will always disappear in the playoffs" argument. Cool.

 

[Devs3cups]

Ah, so we've moved on to the "Bratt is a small soft Euro who will always disappear in the playoffs" argument. Cool.

Funny thing is I’ve never seen him as engaged physically as he’s been than this year. He’s been way more involved.

 

[Devils731]

Ah, so we've moved on to the "Bratt is a small soft Euro who will always disappear in the playoffs" argument. Cool.

 

[Blackjack]

Not sure if this was talked about but I mean if that's what Rags fans wanna waste their $25 on then good for Amanda but she really should have been able to figure out who it was for lol...

Thought this was mean. If they did it to Dano or someone like that, sure. But this is a team "reporter" that already gets bullied by her own fan base and apparently gets paid little enough that she takes gigs like this for $25. Typical Ranger fan, would probably post a video of themselves shoving someone out of a wheelchair and think it was cool.

 

[Patrik26]

Oh yea, I make jokes and tell other people it's over if someone ever asks "how the Devils doing," but I'm 100% watching the games with hope until it's mathematically impossible. Why not?

Because you're a fan. Same reason we're all here. Even when they shit the bed every other night it seems, we're back the next game. Hell, I'm considering going Saturday to the Ottawa game. Just to see how Brady Tkachuk is going to look in black and red on our home ice next season.

 

[My3Sons]

Funny thing is I’ve never seen him as engaged physically as he’s been than this year. He’s been way more involved.

I agree but he's also gone cold in the last stretch of games. I think being on the smaller side that the grind of a long season catches up with him more than some other guys. I think he's generally willing to go to tough areas but that will take a toll on him. I don't see any changes to his game suggesting he's shying away from contact or anything (which we see with Hughes to my eyes) but the results just aren't there. Shots are more likely to miss the net, passes are a bit off at times, Maybe not quite as much separation. Fatigue sort of stuff. I'm not critical of him, and he's an excellent player. My guess is that a shrewd coach would give him a breather for a week before the end of the season if they didn't absolutely need him to get seeding. Let's see how next season plays out.

 

[JimEIV]

I'll keep watching regardless. But letting yourself know there is still a chance, when there is, no matter how slim it is, is in no way delusional. Expecting to win out the year and expecting to 100% be in the playoffs would be delusional.

Buying a lottery ticket might be dumb, but checking your numbers the night of isn't delusional. Expecting to win because they are your lucky numbers would be.

We won't have hockey for a while after this, why not let yourself enjoy the very few games left that still "matter" no matter how small a chance? I'm not telling you to, btw. Everyone is free to be as excited or a miserable as they want, but calling others delusional is weird.

Hockey season is never over....we get to watch ping pong balls, someone else hoist the cup, then the draft, then free agency, then rookie camp, then the rookie tournament, then camp and preseason. Then Prague. That's May to the beginning of October.