Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
  • We are currently aware of "log in/security error" issues that are affecting some users. We apologize and ask for your patience as we try to get these issues fixed.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I've used this argument before too but the one thing we're missing that Vegas has is structure and commitment to defense. Their forwards are also all two way guys for the most part, the next coach will have to get buy in from our stars to come close what Vegas has with the no name goalies.
I completely agree that's why I also want Fitz this offseason to put a premium on two way play, especially if they have speed or physicality. As bad as this year has been this team still has a great core in place and just needs a few tweaks to get back to last season's caliber of play.
 
Ignoring the fact that LA is coming off back to back playoffs and were clearly aiming to be contenders with the PLD trade, what does that even have to do with my point? Do you not think getting above average goaltending for cheap is something a cup contender should strive for? What about the team you ignored in Vegas? Were they not in a cup contention window last season? And how did going with a backup goalie in Adin Hill and a 2nd year goalie in Logan Thompson work out for them last season?
It has everything to do with your point, which was that average goaltending is more than enough and investing in a known commodity like Markstrom is foolish for a team that is otherwise on the cusp of a legitimate cup window yet has no other plausible internal options

Vegas is cherry picking, the exception that proves the rule.

By your logic it’s stupid to pick a QB high - the Pats got Brady in the seventh, right?

Of course unexpectedly catching lightning in a bottle is a good thing.

Expecting to do so is no way to manage anything.
 
Last edited:
Apart from not being sure about Marty's #4 and #5 choices (no Saros or Helle?) it's really interesting he has Markstrom on that list...
Goalies have ego's and perhaps Brodeur likes goalies that play like him? Most of those are pretty athletic goalies, Meanwhile Helle has a sportsnet article about how boring his style is.
 
Here’s the deal.

2 seasons of Markstrom at 6M, might actually be a deal. (Regardless of age)

Bob (35):10m
Vasilevskiy (29): 9.5m
Helly (30): 8.5
Ullmark (30): 5M (will be 32)
Saros 28: 5m (will be 30)
Sarokin 28: 8.25

Ullmark/Saros are the best alternatives to Markstrom, but they are top goalies who will be in their 30s making north of 6m. Thats if Fitz waits until they are UFAs. There is still the issue with trades.

This summers (2024)goalie market is bleak. I don’t see any upgrades. Next summer (2025) its Sarros, Ullmark, maybe Vejmelka.
 
It has everything to do with your point, which was that average goaltending is more than enough and investing in a known commodity like Markstrom is foolish for a team that is otherwise on the cusp of a legitimate cup window yet has no other plausible internal options
1. Of course average goaltending could be enough. Colorado got average goaltending during their Stanley Cup run where they steamrolled through the playoffs and went 16-4. You also have situations like with Vegas last year and St Louis in 2019 where you get goalies who have a hot stretch/year out of nowhere (Hill in 2023, Binnington in 2019).

I don't have a problem with investing in known commodities at goalie (I'm very in favor of making a big offer for Saros and looking to extend him), my problem is investing in a 35 year old goalie that just last season had a below average year in Markstrom.

Also just because there's no plausible internal options doesn't mean there's no other external options. LA got a good goalie tandem for less than $2M in one offseason with Rittich and Talbot. The Maple Leafs found a good goalie in Joseph Woll, Red Wings signed Alex Lyon, Joey Daccord came out of nowhere to have a great year for Seattle. There's clearly other options apart from Markstrom.

Vegas is cherry picking, the exception that proves the rule.

By your logic it’s stupid to pick a QB high - the Pats got Brady in the seventh, right?

Of course unexpectedly catching lightning in a bottle is a good thing.

Expecting to do so is no way to manage anything.
Comparing QBs to Goalies is downright insane. Go look at where the top QBs were drafted and go look where the top Goalies were drafted. The variance in goaltending performance from year to year changes wildly, especially once you get out of the top 10. Where as the top QBs from year to year in terms of performance are largely static.

You also use these terms lightning in a bottle or exception to the rule as if there's not a large number of teams from year to year that somehow catch lightning in a bottle. Daccord in Seattle, Lyon in Detroit, Talbot/Rittich in LA, Ingram in Arizona, Woll in Toronto, UPL in Buffalo, all goalies that were either acquired cheap or had little expectation going into this season that have performed above average or better this season. You also had Georgiev, Hill, Gustavson, Andersson/Raanta all acquired for cheap recently who went on to have big seasons on playoff teams.

I guess Vegas, Colorado, Carolina, LA and Toronto haven't gotten to their contention window yet.
 


maybe Marty is driving the Devils to get him lol

Or maybe they like that Markstrom has 2 more years whereas Saros/Ullmark have only 1 more season. But this is another reason who a deal longer than 2 years for Toffoli would be hard for the Devils to do if they want a high priced goalie

The first three are all home grown. Took Sorokin a few years to get going with NYI
 
The first three are all home grown. Took Sorokin a few years to get going with NYI

He didn’t come over until he was 25. He never even played an AHL game.

And what do I think of Marty’s picks? Rogalski is proof enough that Marty’s picks suck.

Good list other than Adin Hill……..

Adin Hill is a decent to solid goalie, but he wasn’t this good before he got to Vegas. But like I said in the other thread, I think every goalie is gonna look better there/under Bruce Cassidy. Rask went from elite to just average, before a late career renaissance under Cassidy. Halak looked really good under him compared to how he looked on the Islanders before that.

Logan Thompson might be ECHL caliber after all, but he’s played like a decent to solid NHL caliber goalie there.

No way I’m convinced Adin Hill is one of the five best goalies in the league. I think the playoffs/cup win last year is the only thing really fueling that.
 
Goalies have ego's and perhaps Brodeur likes goalies that play like him? Most of those are pretty athletic goalies, Meanwhile Helle has a sportsnet article about how boring his style is.

Adin Hill plays like nothing like Marty lol
 
He didn’t come over until he was 25. He never even played an AHL game.

And what do I think of Marty’s picks? Rogalski is proof enough that Marty’s picks suck.

Good list other than Adin Hill……..

Adin Hill is a decent to solid goalie, but he wasn’t this good before he got to Vegas. But like I said in the other thread, I think every goalie is gonna look better there/under Bruce Cassidy. Rask went from elite to just average, before a late career renaissance under Cassidy. Halak looked really good under him compared to how he looked on the Islanders before that.

Logan Thompson might be ECHL caliber after all, but he’s played like a decent to solid NHL caliber goalie there.

No way I’m convinced Adin Hill is one of the five best goalies in the league. I think the playoffs/cup win last year is the only thing really fueling that.
Why I am not in favor of giving a lifetime contract to another teams home grown goalie. I think about Cory Schneider. I’d rather Daws/Schmid be the future and we get them a legit 1A. Bernier/Crawford did not work out, but I supported both decisions. If Markstrom is the guy, it might make sense to acquire him now because price differentials now vs summer are obvious. It is true Calgary is also trying to win a Stanley cup next season
 
  • Like
Reactions: My3Sons
okay so is our solution to NOT get a goalie?
Not what I’m saying at all…just saying he’s not that much of a sure thing where if his play falls off it’s automatically because of the team being bad. We’ve seen this script with Cory already where he crapped out before Markstrom’s current age.
 
  • Like
Reactions: My3Sons
You guys want a unicorn you’re never gonna find
Goalies are voodoo. We literally see random goalies pop off every season.

People thought Adin Hill was an Arizona bum. Then he suddenly becomes "elite" and wins a Stanley Cup. Vegas used like 6 goalies last year, each with varying degrees of usefulness.

Look, if the defensive performance remains as bad as it's been, there is no goalie that will bail this team out anyway (and Rogulski will work to ruin him in his spare time too). In this situation, I don't see a point in paying a haul for a goalie who might implode anyway.

Make multiple, smart cheap bets. Fitz hasn't done this. He made one moderate bet in Vanecek and otherwise decided to throw some rookie goalies to the wolves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guitarguyvic
Both of these arguments are nonsense. You 100% get Markstrom if the retention aspect is out the window. Calgary is not getting their supposed "haul" if they don't have that in but you also don't just scoff at a guy like Markstrom because of his age.
I scoff at Markstrom because it's entirely likely he reverts to below-average next season anyway.

He's done it for multiple seasons. Has a good season, convinces people he's "elite, then teams adjust and he looks like trash the next season. Repeat.
 
Goalies are voodoo. We literally see random goalies pop off every season.

People thought Adin Hill was an Arizona bum. Then he suddenly becomes "elite" and wins a Stanley Cup. Vegas used like 6 goalies last year, each with varying degrees of usefulness.

Look, if the defensive performance remains as bad as it's been, there is no goalie that will bail this team out anyway (and Rogulski will work to ruin him in his spare time too). In this situation, I don't see a point in paying a haul for a goalie who might implode anyway.

Make multiple, smart cheap bets. Fitz hasn't done this. He made one moderate bet in Vanecek and otherwise decided to throw some rookie goalies to the wolves.
I agree with most of this but re: the last paragraph he signed Bernier and Crawford to two year deals and they played like a combined ten games for us, it was never really Fitz’s plan to throw kids to the wolves.
 
I agree with most of this but re: the last paragraph he signed Bernier and Crawford to two year deals and they played like a combined ten games for us, it was never really Fitz’s plan to throw kids to the wolves.

And it’s a big reason why I can never get on Fitz for the goaltending situation. He has tried to solve it every season he’s been in charge.

I know people don’t like that he hasn’t made a move to this point, but as I’ve stated before, the goaltending market league wide has been stagnant due to the sellers controlling the market. No one has blinked yet on a goalie who is worth a damn.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Devs3cups
I scoff at Markstrom because it's entirely likely he reverts to below-average next season anyway.

He's done it for multiple seasons. Has a good season, convinces people he's "elite, then teams adjust and he looks like trash the next season. Repeat.
Markström's age is a problem, but he has one poor and one mediocre season, otherwise he has been consistently good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guttersniped
Markström's age is a problem, but he has one poor and one mediocre season, otherwise he has been consistently good.
Without a new (better) coach and major overhauls to the skaters…Markstrom will absolutely look mediocre or poor on this team. And the usual people will still blame him…his age will make it an easy excuse and they’ll be on here screaming that if we just get that next “average” goalie that will solve the problem.
 
Without a new (better) coach and major overhauls to the skaters…Markstrom will absolutely look mediocre or poor on this team. And the usual people will still blame him…his age will make it an easy excuse and they’ll be on here screaming that if we just get that next “average” goalie that will solve the problem.
Completely unknowable and probably false. Goaltending skill exists. The Flames and Devils both give up 3.1 xGA per game all strengths. They aren’t some great defensive team.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Ad