Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Saugus]

You can be unhappy with how Niedermayer left the team and still think he belongs in the rafters.

HHoF defenseman, integral part of 3 Cup winning teams, and probably the fifth guy just missing out on the Devils' Mt Rushmore (after Dr McMullen, Lou, Brodeur, and Stevens).

It would be a travesty if we didn't retire his number.

 

[NJDevs26]

Nieds didn’t leave because of any contentious contract negotiations, he left cause we beat the Ducks in ‘03 and Rob was left out in the cold with zero Cups to his three. That’s literally the least annoying reason a guy could ever leave, unless of course you walk out on a contract to join your brother (cough Brent cough).

 

[Devils731]

Has anyone put themselves out there yet? I'll do it.

Jack Hughes is going to be on the same tier as Connor McDavid.

I don't understand why people put a cap on his talent. The sky is the limit for this kid. Not only does he have the top 1% of talent in the league, he's got the confidence he can be the best and has the work ethic to back it up.

His growth has been vertical since he's entered the league. He's constantly overcome any shred of doubt in his game. "He hasn't played against men" -> "he forces plays too much" -> "ya, he generates offense but he doesn't finish".

That last one is my favorite. We knew Jack was going to learn how to finish plays. Did any of us think he would be an elite goal scorer at any point in his career? Much less in two years? The rate of his improvement is insane.

The #1 thing that blows me away about McDavid is how he comes into camp and his teammates are always like, "McDavid is even better than he was last season". Every year I think there is no way that's possible. "What could he possibly work on to get exponentially better?" McDavid comes to camp this year, says he worked a ton on one-timers, and now he's leading the league in goals. Every year McDavid finds something that can elevate his game. He combines his top 1% talent with exceptional work ethic and confidence to become elite at it in an incredibly short time frame.

I say the above because Jack still has a ton to his game he can become elite at, even though he's already pacing at 50g & 100p as a 21 year old. How could there possibly be a ceiling for this kid? Imagine Jack deciding he's going to become elite at one-timers during an off-season. Can anyone really say he wouldn't be able to do it now, after he drastically improved his shot at a rapid pace?

To conclude my ranty post, Jack has the combination of incredible rare and special talent, high confidence, exceptional work ethic, develops skills at an incredibly fast rate, and has no shortage of skills he can improve upon. Jack is as bullish as it gets and no one should be calling the top on him.

Hughes, so far, has an ability similar to Crosby in that they can focus on 1 thing in the offseason and turn it from a weakness into a neutral or a strength.

Can Hughes keep doing that? Nobody knows but it’s exciting to imagine a 26 year old Hughes that was able to drastically improve 1 thing every offseason.

The difficulty in saying “this guy will be better than everyone” is that there is only 1 guy ever at that level and so even many great players have never achieved it. What if Bedard is even better than we think possible? Then Hughes could get to a McDavid level and still not be “the best”.

I think you just take the players for whomever they are and not worry too much about comparisons to other players. If a player ends up in the conversation for top 5 then don’t worry about if people put the player at 1 or not.

 

[glenwo2]

Marchand at $6.125 million per has been a massive bargain tbh, he has put his money where his mouth is

Why do you keep doing this?

Stop wrecking my narrative with Facts, goddammit!!

 

[HBK27]

Hughes, so far, has an ability similar to Crosby in that they can focus on 1 thing in the offseason and turn it from a weakness into a neutral or a strength.

Can Hughes keep doing that? Nobody knows but it’s exciting to imagine a 26 year old Hughes that was able to drastically improve 1 thing every offseason.

The difficulty in saying “this guy will be better than everyone” is that there is only 1 guy ever at that level and so even many great players have never achieved it. What if Bedard is even better than we think possible? Then Hughes could get to a McDavid level and still not be “the best”.

I think you just take the players for whomever they are and not worry too much about comparisons to other players. If a player ends up in the conversation for top 5 then don’t worry about if people put the player at 1 or not.

I'll believe this once Jack's FO% is above 50%

 

[JimEIV]

Hughes, so far, has an ability similar to Crosby in that they can focus on 1 thing in the offseason and turn it from a weakness into a neutral or a strength.

Can Hughes keep doing that? Nobody knows but it’s exciting to imagine a 26 year old Hughes that was able to drastically improve 1 thing every offseason.

The difficulty in saying “this guy will be better than everyone” is that there is only 1 guy ever at that level and so even many great players have never achieved it. What if Bedard is even better than we think possible? Then Hughes could get to a McDavid level and still not be “the best”.

I think you just take the players for whomever they are and not worry too much about comparisons to other players. If a player ends up in the conversation for top 5 then don’t worry about if people put the player at 1 or not.

I know this is going to be taken wrong especially after that amazing OT pass the other night...

But I still don't think that Jack utilizes his linemates effectively. I still think he's doing too much individually...it certainly has been fun to watch but I think he needs to distribute much more than he currently is.

 

[R8Devs]

I think what Fitz is looking at is the Bruins model:



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I don't think Fitz can demand a lot of discounting, but I think the point is that Fitz would want players who value being here as part of the package. The Devils shouldn't have to outbid other teams at this point.

If Bratt wants top dollar, then I think Fitz would be right to let him go / trade him. Bratt's a great player, but some shared sacrifice is needed to build a great culture. If Bratt's not willing to bend at all, then he doesn't fit.

Fitz didn't give Hamilton or Palat below market value and now you're basically buying out Bratt's UFA years. There's no need for a discount on Bratt's contract, you can save elsewhere in the lineup but if you're not replacing Bratt with an ELC guy that actually produces near Bratt's level you would be spending more in assets/cap space just to replace him and that's an if.

 

[Devils731]

I'll believe this once Jack's FO% is above 50%

He agrees they aren’t important to focus on over other things! Come at me board!

 

[R8Devs]

Marchand at $6.125 million per has been a massive bargain tbh, he has put his money where his mouth is

He also signed that deal with his career high being 61 points in 77 games and had 103 points in his previous 154 games. He broke out to what he is now after signing that deal.

 

[Devs3cups]

Why do you keep doing this?

Stop wrecking my narrative with Facts, goddammit!!

Bergeron signing for 2.5 mil this summer is also a good one. Also signed an 8 year deal at 6.875$ mil AAV in 2013, a major underpay.

 

[Better Call Sal]

That is adorable haha.

 

[Devils731]

I know this is going to be taken wrong especially after that amazing OT pass the other night...

But I still don't think that Jack utilizes his linemates effectively. I still think he's doing too much individually...it certainly has been fun to watch but I think he needs to distribute much more than he currently is.

Hughes routinely sets up teammates for good scoring chances. If his linemates were to bury their chances at a reasonable rate then I don’t think you’d feel this way.

The best way for Hughes to act is to carry the puck as often as possible until a passing or shooting opportunity opens up.

By carrying the puck Hughes disrupts the other teams defensive shape, gets all the defenders eyes locked on him, and opens up passing lanes which Hughes often takes advantage of. Hughes certainly takes some low percentage shots at times but that’s often because a better play never developed and he’s choosing between a handful of low percentage plays.

Usually you’re pretty happy if a guy shooting ~15.5% finds a way to shoot often.

 

[Devs3cups]

Hughes routinely sets up teammates for good scoring chances. If his linemates were to bury their chances at a reasonable rate then I don’t think you’d feel this way.

The best way for Hughes to act is to carry the puck as often as possible until a passing or shooting opportunity opens up.

By carrying the puck Hughes disrupts the other teams defensive shape, gets all the defenders eyes locked on him, and opens up passing lanes which Hughes often takes advantage of. Hughes certainly takes some low percentage shots at times but that’s often because a better play never developed and he’s choosing between a handful of low percentage plays.

Usually you’re pretty happy if a guy shooting ~15.5% finds a way to shoot often.

Erik Haula, 4 goals, 12 expected goals. Oh my gaahhhdd.

 

[Azathoth]

Why do you keep doing this?

Stop wrecking my narrative with Facts, goddammit!!

TBF though, when Marchand inked that deal, he was coming off a 36g 61 pt season (in 77 games). Up until that point he was averaging about .63 ppg in his career and it wasn't until after he signed that deal that he became a ppg+ forward. Maybe his deal back then was comparable to a higher deal today, but I think Boston got a bit lucky that he continued to evolve as a player and outplayed the contract.

 

[Devs3cups]

I have a hard time believing we’re not frontrunners.

 

[Tundra]

The sharks want way too much last I heard. I'd walk away.

 

[imMagnum]

I know this is going to be taken wrong especially after that amazing OT pass the other night...

But I still don't think that Jack utilizes his linemates effectively. I still think he's doing too much individually...it certainly has been fun to watch but I think he needs to distribute much more than he currently is.

I agree with you to an extent. Remember his first two seasons where he utilized his teammates a ton and they couldn't finish? He almost had to force plays to teammates because he couldn't beat goalies. Now that he can score, he's done a 180. If he has reliable linemates that can finish, I'm sure he distributes the puck more.

When Jack comes down the left circle on the PP, I have no idea if he's shooting, going cross ice to Bratt, or going high to Dougie. 5v5 however, it's pretty much a given Jack is shooting, unless he's playing with Yegor. I think at this point, I'd rather him take the shot over forcing one to Haula, Tatar, or Mercer. I think if we get a Bratt or Meier on Jack's line, we will see more utilization of teammates.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Heard Haula sings the same song during his shifts

 

[NJDevs26]

He also signed that deal with his career high being 61 points in 77 games and had 103 points in his previous 154 games. He broke out to what he is now after signing that deal.

That 61 point high included 37 goals. A guy with 37 goals on an elite first line and his ‘intangibles’ would have easily got another couple million more per in FA, especially factoring in the year he had in what would have been his walk season.

 

[Devs3cups]

The sharks want way too much last I heard. I'd walk away.

Was more info released? Last we’ve heard the ask was a young player who’s established (most likely forward), a good prospect and a 1st round pick. We can easily do that. Meier is worth it.

 

[Tundra]

Was more info released? Last we’ve heard the ask was a young player who’s established (most likely forward), a good prospect and a 1st round pick. We can easily do that. Meier is worth it.

There was a tweet citing that they wanted 4 credible pieces. I'll try to find it.

Mercer, Muk, Boqvist & a first. Would any of us do that for Meier?

 

[Devs3cups]

There was a tweet citing that they wanted 4 credible pieces. I'll try to find it.

Mercer, Muk, Boqvist & a first. Would any of us do that for Meier?

Mercer’s a no-go. As much as I love Yegor, I’d do Rango, Holtz and a 1st for a signed Meier. I’d add Muk if that was what it took.

 

[R8Devs]

That 61 point high included 37 goals. A guy with 37 goals on an elite first line and his ‘intangibles’ would have easily got another couple million more per in FA, especially factoring in the year he had in what would have been his walk season.

He signed an 8 year deal as a 28 year old, the fact he's producing is a benefit of that contract but I doubt at the time of the deal they were saying this will be a steal of a contract when he's 34. But instead using the 8 years to lower the AAV. I'm not saying he couldn't have gotten more but I doubt at that time (before his 17-18 season) you would look at that deal as someone leaving millions in AAV on the table.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

There's no way Mercer can be included, even if Meier says he'll sign a 8m x 7 year extension.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Mercer’s a no-go. As much as I love Yegor, I’d do Rango, Holtz and a 1st for a signed Meier. I’d add Muk if that was what it took.

Rango and Holtz and a first okay. No to adding Muk. Keep our young players. We are getting too carried away about Meier. You don't buy too high in a seller's market. That's how you blow your rebuild which is going just fine right now.