Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Guttersniped]

The Toronto example is always hilarious. Like they’ve been one of the best teams in the league for a while now and their playoff struggles are not because they’re paying their best players. Those players are the reason they’re as good as they are and they even come nearly as close as they have to doing something they haven’t done in decades.

Plus they’re paying their 4 best forwards about 40M. We’re talking worst case about paying our 4 best about 33M. 9M is a lot for both Bratt and Meier but it really not a big issue and they’re both elite wingers that we should absolutely keep around if possible (if we were to trade for Meier).

Toronto got f***ed by signing big money players, who were total mercenaries, right before the cap froze.

Tavares (7 years/ 11m) & Nylander’s (6 year/ 6.96m) deals started in 2018-19, when the cap was 79.5m. Matthews’ (5 year/ 11.64m) & Marner’s (6 year/ 10.9m) deals started in 2019-20, when the cap was 81.5m.

And the cap was frozen at 81.5m for two more years and now is at 82.5m.

Matthews only got a 5 year deal because that was only way Dubas could keep his AAV below McDavid’s 12.5m.

That’s pretty wild, considering McDavid won the Ross, Hart, etc before he signed his deal and Matthews didn’t.

So Matthews’ ask was brutal, but he was just being smarter about how salaries were going to (presumably) explode.

The cap went from 75m in 2017-18 to 79.5m in 2018-19, thanks to Vegas’ 1st season. So it was assumed the same bump was coming after Seattle’s 1st season in 2021-22, plus more money from the new US National TV deal starting the same year.

McDavid signed his deal a year before it started, in July 2017. If the pandemic had never frozen the cap McDavid’s deal would’ve become a completely absurd bargain, even with the escrow mess.

The Rangers signed both Panarin to a 7 year/11.64m deal and Trouba to a 7 year/8m deal in 2019-20 too.

The Sharks Karlsson to a 8 year/ 11.5m deal starting in 2019-20.
They signed Couture in 2018 and his 8 year/ 8m deal started in 2019-20.
They signed Vlasic in 2017 and his 8 year/7m deal started in 2018-19.

The Kings signed Doughty in 2018 and his 8 year/11m deal started in 2019-20.

Vegas signed Stone to a 8 year/9.5m deal starting in 2019-20.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Yeah I was so confused. I thought we got a trade or something.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Toronto got f***ed by signing big money players, who were total mercenaries, right before the cap froze.

Tavares (7 years/ 11m) & Nylander’s (6 year/ 6.96m) deals started in 2018-19, when the cap was 79.5m. Matthews’ (5 year/ 11.64m) & Marner’s (6 year/ 10.9m) deals started in 2019-20, when the cap was 81.5m.

And the cap was frozen at 81.5m for two more years and now is at 82.5m.

Matthews only got a 5 year deal because that was only way Dubas could keep his AAV below McDavid’s 12.5m.

That’s pretty wild, considering McDavid won the Ross, Hart, etc before he signed his deal and Matthews didn’t.

So Matthews’ ask was brutal, but he was just being smarter about how salaries were going to (presumably) explode.

The cap went from 75m in 2017-18 to 79.5m in 2018-19, thanks to Vegas’ 1st season. So it was assumed the same bump was coming after Seattle’s 1st season in 2021-22, plus more money from the new US National TV deal starting the same year.

McDavid signed his deal a year before it started, in July 2017. If the pandemic had never frozen the cap McDavid’s deal would’ve become a completely absurd bargain, even with the escrow mess.

The Rangers signed both Panarin to a 7 year/11.64m deal and Trouba to a 7 year/8m deal in 2019-20 too.

The Sharks Karlsson to a 8 year/ 11.5m deal starting in 2019-20.
They signed Couture in 2018 and his 8 year/ 8m deal started in 2019-20.
They signed Vlasic in 2017 and his 8 year/7m deal started in 2018-19.

The Kings signed Doughty in 2018 and his 8 year/11m deal started in 2019-20.

Vegas signed Stone to a 8 year/9.5m deal starting in 2019-20.

But they are still much better off with those players signed to those high caps than they would be otherwise.

 

[Hisch13r]

Agreed completely.

We really should just try and replace Bratt with someone like Barclay Goodrow or Zach Hyman. Or some kind of equivalent.

Those are the real gritty winners.

lol Tbf Hyman is a legitimately good player and always has been. On pace for 100 pts this year (playing with McDrai must be nice)

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

i woke up from a nap, my last day of vacation, for this?!?!

 

[HBK27]

View attachment 644376

 

[Nubmer6]

i woke up from a nap, my last day of vacation, for this?!?!

You don't happen to be vacationing in Tulum, are you?

 

[Guttersniped]

I don’t understand, does Dawson Mercer have to die so Jesper Bratt can live?

 

[My3Sons]

Whats funny is seeing everyone try to dance around the proclamation that Mercer probably wont be better or as good as Bratt when they have literally nothing to stand on when saying that

Actually, I think what's funny is that you showed up on Dec. 27 and immediately lay into people like someone who's been here much longer but needed a change of identity or actually wanted a burner account.

 

[forceten]

This is getting ugly in here. We don't do breaks well, I don't think

I think this team is worse without Jesper Bratt or Dawson Mercer. To me they are part of the core.

Actually, I think what's funny is that you showed up on Dec. 27 and immediately lay into people like someone who's been here much longer but needed a change of identity or actually wanted a burner account.

I do not understand people doing this. It's a message forum. Admittedly I vanish for years at a time.

 

[Saugus]

Yeah I was so confused. I thought we got a trade or something.

Nah, a trade would have gotten a separate thread, so I knew it wasn't that.

But I thought maybe someone saw an Instagram post about a TikTok of Mike Grier's wife's dog barking at Nico Hischier's cat while on vacation together in Cabo, and deduced that something was imminent because of that.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Advanced stats are based on what happens during the game on the ice. I am sorry that you either A) don't understand them or B) dislike them for whatever reason....but they are relevant, whether you choose to believe it or not.

You say this frequently but it's very misguided. All stats are based on what happens on the ice (duh?). Their usefulness depends on whether or not they are measuring what is most relevant.

The question isn't whether or not advanced stats are factual. It's whether or not they are measuring the facts that matter most to winning and losing hockey games.

 

[My3Sons]

This is getting ugly in here. We don't do breaks well, I don't think

I think this team is worse without Jesper Bratt or Dawson Mercer. To me they are part of the core.



I do not understand people doing this. It's a message forum. Admittedly I vanish for years at a time.

I don't think the consensus disagrees with you. There are a few posters that are not big fans of Bratt for whatever reason. That's their right to an opinion. I do worry about Bratt's contract though. Something is holding it up and my concern is that the holdup is an impasse at this point. I'd be disappointed if the parties cannot find a compromise both can live with on a long term deal. If the reporting is correct that Bratt asked for above $8 mil per I'd be curious how much above $8 mil per he asked for. $8.05 mil per or $9.9. mil per as both would be accurately above Jack's $8 mil per x 8. If Bratt is overplaying his hand maybe he folds at the 11th hour but if Fitz has some sort of number in mind and won't bend that's a problem too. If they could have a meeting of the minds I'm not thrilled that it hasn't happened by now.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You say this frequently but it's very misguided. All stats are based on what happens on the ice (duh?). Their usefulness depends on whether or not they are measuring what is most relevant.

The question isn't whether or not advanced stats are factual. It's whether or not they are measuring the facts that matter most to winning and losing hockey games.

There is not one stat that is a be all end all. However, all stats when used properly, help to paint a picture about how good a player is. That much is basically indeniable.

 

[My3Sons]

This is getting ugly in here. We don't do breaks well, I don't think

I think this team is worse without Jesper Bratt or Dawson Mercer. To me they are part of the core.



I do not understand people doing this. It's a message forum. Admittedly I vanish for years at a time.

Yet you maintain your original account and live with whatever your interactions have been with the group. An angry aggressive newbie is a bit of a sign to me. My guess to others as well.

 

[Guttersniped]

But they are still much better off with those players signed to those high caps than they would be otherwise.

I’m not saying they should have traded Matthews lol, he squeezed them pretty hard though.

Signing a bunch of massive contracts right before the pandemic/cap freeze is just bad luck.

Salaries went down, they’re only now starting to get back up to what the numbers were in the 2018 & 2019 off-season.

The Toronto AAV’s were huge at the time and Dubas to less term to even get the numbers down to that.

He was counting on a rising cap to at least make his life easier and he didn’t even get that lol.

To me it’s kind of unbelievable what Edmonton lost out on by the cap freezing. The McDrais contracts would have been ridiculously good if salaries kept going up and up.

Everyone thought the cap was going way up fast, that’s why there were all the platform bridge deals with the ridiculous QO for the top RFAs. Oopsie.

 

[Billdo]

I don't think the consensus disagrees with you. There are a few posters that are not big fans of Bratt for whatever reason. That's their right to an opinion. I do worry about Bratt's contract though. Something is holding it up and my concern is that the holdup is an impasse at this point. I'd be disappointed if the parties cannot find a compromise both can live with on a long term deal. If the reporting is correct that Bratt asked for above $8 mil per I'd be curious how much above $8 mil per he asked for. $8.05 mil per or $9.9. mil per as both would be accurately above Jack's $8 mil per x 8. If Bratt is overplaying his hand maybe he folds at the 11th hour but if Fitz has some sort of number in mind and won't bend that's a problem too. If they could have a meeting of the minds I'm not thrilled that it hasn't happened by now.

I wonder what the hold up is as well. If they offered him Jacks deal and he turned it down I'd imagine it would be something they could work around quickly if he wants say 8.5, but if that number is north of 9, that's where it gets tricky.

 

[glenwo2]

So you knew Bratt was gonna become this at 21?

Let me send over my portfolio, youll make me a lot of money

dude..just give it a rest.

You're fighting a losing battle here.

 

[Guttersniped]

Actually, I think what's funny is that you showed up on Dec. 27 and immediately lay into people like someone who's been here much longer but needed a change of identity or actually wanted a burner account.

I do not understand people doing this. It's a message forum. Admittedly I vanish for years at a time.

Forceten:

 

[My3Sons]

I’m not saying they should have traded Matthews lol, he squeezed them pretty hard though.

Signing a bunch of massive contracts right before the pandemic/cap freeze is just bad luck.

Salaries went down, they’re only now starting to get back up to what the numbers were in the 2018 & 2019 off-season.

The Toronto AAV’s were huge at the time and Dubas to less term to even get the numbers down to that.

He was counting on a rising cap to at least make his life easier and he didn’t even get that lol.

To me it’s kind of unbelievable what Edmonton lost out on by the cap freezing. The McDrais contracts would have been ridiculously good if salaries kept going up and up.

Everyone thought the cap was going way up fast, that’s why there were all the platform bridge deals with the ridiculous QO for the top RFAs. Oopsie.

Toronto is the NY Yankees of hockey. Few really want to play there for the romance and history. Even Tavares wanted the big money from them. If there was a hard cap in baseball the Yankees would be mediocre until they figured out they actually had to live with the cap. Toronto is no different. If you could play somewhere that a "For Sale" sign doesn't show up on your lawn after a big loss or someone throws a rock at your car (since everyone in the area knows who you are and what you look like and where you live) when you miss a penalty shot for similar money you'd probably opt to go elsewhere.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Toronto is the NY Yankees of hockey.

As is A24 is to the film industry with The Lighthouse being holy grail.

 

[glenwo2]

And your proof that Bratt is 'a significantly better skater' is where?

Mercer can skate but not like him.

 

[My3Sons]

As is A24 is to the film industry with The Lighthouse being holy grail.

If by holy grail you mean something that didn't garner attention at the time it was made and that was later reduced to a minor plot point in a glorified children's movie then yes, the Lighthouse fits that bill.

 

[Guttersniped]

And your proof that Bratt is 'a significantly better skater' is where?

Or are you going to seriously compare the skating strength of now a grown ass man to that of a guy who just was able to buy his first legal beer three months ago?

Right. Just like everybody knew Jacks shot would increase to 60+ goal pace territory... its almost like they didnt know. Because maybe, just maybe, players can develop their game.

You want “proof” that Jesper Bratt is a better skater than Dawson Mercer?

Have you considered watching them both skate?

 

[Bleedred]

lol Tbf Hyman is a legitimately good player and always has been. On pace for 100 pts this year (playing with McDrai must be nice)

That was merely a mock at a very reminiscent poster who talked those two players up.

One of those two players is and always has been and probably always will be better than the other, who is an overpaid or at least overtermed 3rd liner, that's overrated by a certain sect of fans and hockey people, particularly for being on those two TBL cup winners.