Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Brooklyndevil]

The latter package might be a heavy price but if Timo is onboard with an extension I would definitely pull the trigger.

But no way would I be happy dealing Mercer.

If we were to trade Mercer and Bratt decides to go UFA, it would definitely hurt our forward depth even with Meier. Plus our first round included is a terrible deal. I see Mercer as a good player who will get better and has a high hockey IQ.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Trading Mercer? He’s a young good and smart player that will only get better. With the Bratt situation up in the air, I doubt Fritz would even consider including Mercer and add in our first rounder that’s a definite no go.

But realistically from San Jose’s perspective that’s the kind of player I’d be pushing for. And that’s the kind of thing a deal could get hung up on. Some of the other names we’ve mentioned may not be enticing enough to get a player of Meier’s caliber.

I would hesitate to include Mercer though too. I’ll be incredibly happy if Fitz can get a deal done centered around a mix of Sharangovich, Holtz and any other young guy/prospect not named Mercer, Nemec, or Hughes.

At the end of the day it comes down to what other teams are offering too and San Jose May end up with their back against the wall.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

I'm curious to see how much a Meier contract extension comes into play. I would think it would and he could almost pick where he wants to go like Fiala did. I like our chances a bit better in that scenario. It's been pretty obvious the last few years Fitz badly wants another top 6 wing.

 

[Oneiro]

I don't think they're going to hurt the roster at all in the deal. I doubt Mercer is in it.

Sharangovich for Meier is an upgrade, sure, but even there, I'm not sure he would make sense for SJ anyway.

 

[Oneiro]

Nothing you didn't already know.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

stop tickling our pickle and get this done already

 

[Eggtimer]

I know. We just aren't in position to win a cup yet, and our center and interior winger depth sucks. 2023 pick can help address that. We aren't ready to trade that level of pick in a draft like this, IMHO.

What? We are 3rd in the league . When is a good time to add ? 2023 pick will be a late pick and will be 3-4 years away from helping . Meier is exsctly what we need and when we need it .

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

And San Jose only has two salary retention slots now because the traded Burns is taking up one for 3 years. Teams like to keep those slots open.

It’s easy to say “they won’t mind” and “we can make it worth their while”.

If Carolina and/or Buffalo bids, they don’t need any salary retention or cap dumps. How much are we adding to beat them out and make SJ not mind? Can it work with their own current cap hell?

I don’t feel the need to figure out specifics because 1) cap shit sucks 2) I never predict any of this sort of stuff right ever, but there’s some wishful thinking involved when people simply assume San Jose will be incredibly accommodating with cap space in a Meier trade this early season.

Old fashioned? Gin and Tonic? Mojito? Tell the doctor and he’ll prescribe.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Just let it be Timo time

 

[Devs3cups]

But realistically from San Jose’s perspective that’s the kind of player I’d be pushing for. And that’s the kind of thing a deal could get hung up on. Some of the other names we’ve mentioned may not be enticing enough to get a player of Meier’s caliber.

I would hesitate to include Mercer though too. I’ll be incredibly happy if Fitz can get a deal done centered around a mix of Sharangovich, Holtz and any other young guy/prospect not named Mercer, Nemec, or Hughes.

At the end of the day it comes down to what other teams are offering too and San Jose May end up with their back against the wall.

Realistically who of the teams we know are interested could fit him long-term and offer something better than Holtz, Muk and a 1st? I honestly like our chances of being thee highest bidder here.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Realistically who of the teams we know are interested could fit him long-term and offer something better than Holtz, Muk and a 1st? I honestly like our chances of being thee highest bidder here.

if Carolina is offering their 1st + Jarvis (I have no idea if they are or aren't) that would beat us out, unless we include Mercer which we shouldnt be doing.

 

[Forge]

Nothing you didn't already know.

By god...is that Josh Anderson's music I'm hearing??!!!

 

[Devs3cups]

if Carolina is offering their 1st + Jarvis (I have no idea if they are or aren't) that would beat us out, unless we include Mercer which we shouldnt be doing.

I don't think they'd do that

 

[SKNJD9]

To add some context to that tweet. Lebrun is posting an interview with Fitzy tomorrow where he specifically states about looking for that winger ( top 6 winger )

 

[MasterofGrond]

I don't think they'd do that

yeah. for the same reason we don't include mercer. They're similarly valuable.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

To settle my own curiosity I looked into what the team might look like if they trade for Meier (assume Holtz is included), he signs his qualifying offer, and they are forced to give team unfriendly contract to Bratt (9m x 5):

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Really tight, but they can bring back Tatar at the same cap hit, extend Sharangovich at 4m and fill out the rest of the lineup as I suggest here. It's doable but not ideal.

Edit: I don't fully get the bonus circumstances so I can't comment on that, but it's also important that if they trade for Meier without an extension, that they can credibly do this. If they can't credibly eat his qualifier then Meier's agent has them over a barrel on the extension negotiations. If this is right, then they can possibly credibly eat his qualifier even with Bratt not signed.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Agreed. I don't even understand the logic of bringing in another top 6 center when we have Hughes and Hischier, two of the best in the game currently.

Unless all that time playing Jack with Haula has warped Fitz and Ruff's brains into thinking that Hughes is a winger long term, and they want Horvat to center him instead, so Haula can go back to the third line where he belongs.

Meier fits our need better. I hope this talk of Horvat is just meaningless noise.

The logic for NJ to acquire Horvat is for Horvat to play the 'Huala role' on Jack's line. Play left wing but take face-offs.

I think this is the backup option if Meier is traded elsewhere.

I think your second point about Fitz thinking Hughes being a winger long term is not true. I think they still think he is a center but have possibility giving up on Hughes improving his faceoff % to a respectable number. And that he is going need help with this long term.

It wouldn't be the first center with this issue. JT Miller took faceoffs for Elias Petterson on Vancouver.

 

[Zippy316]

Whatever this Meier deal ends up being, if the Devils acquire him it’s going to be incredibly complicated.

Cap is going to be an issue for the Devils. Contract in and contract out is another issue for the Sharks. So even the logical let’s include Johnsson for cap purposes will need to be balanced by Sharks sending back a contract.

If Devils are giving up multiple players, they have to take back the same amount of contracts. Probably another NHL player coming back in the deal (Bonino?, Nuutivaara’s contract, Harrington?) and then that has cap implications in itself.

To settle my own curiosity I looked into what the team might look like if they trade for Meier (assume Holtz is included), he signs his qualifying offer, and they are forced to give team unfriendly contract to Bratt (9m x 5):

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

View attachment 642100

Really tight, but they can bring back Tatar at the same cap hit, extend Sharangovich at 4m and fill out the rest of the lineup as I suggest here. It's doable but not ideal.

I think Sharangovich ends up going in any deal for Meier primarily just cause it takes out 3-4 million you would have to pay him next year.

The issue there is the Devils can’t be giving up too many NHL options if the deal Holtz too so they need to be careful to not gut the teams depth.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Realistically who of the teams we know are interested could fit him long-term and offer something better than Holtz, Muk and a 1st? I honestly like our chances of being thee highest bidder here.

I mean most teams could it’s just gonna come down to who’s the most willing. And it could be that San Jose wants a good contributing young player and another team is willing to offer one.

Yes the devils probably have the most to offer in total but we can’t assume that SJS are that interested in Holtz or our other prospects.
If I were them I would be pushing for someone like Mercer or even Nemec.

If it’s a team like Buffalo I’m probably starting with a Jack Quinn and/or Peterka. If it’s Toronto I might be starting with a Sandin or Liljegren. From Carolina maybe I’m pushing for Jarvis. All of these guys are more valuable than Holtz as talented young players already having some success at the NHL level. And given how good of a player Meier is a team out there will very possibly be willing to give up such a player.

From our end we hope that they really like Holtz, another prospect, and/or Mukhammadullin or that no one else is willing to offer more but it’s very possibly they get more.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

To settle my own curiosity I looked into what the team might look like if they trade for Meier (assume Holtz is included), he signs his qualifying offer, and they are forced to give team unfriendly contract to Bratt (9m x 5):

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

View attachment 642100

Really tight, but they can bring back Tatar at the same cap hit, extend Sharangovich at 4m and fill out the rest of the lineup as I suggest here. It's doable but not ideal.

You need to be under the cap by a few million if Luke and Nemec are on the roster. Devils need to accrue cap space next year to account for potential performance bonuses and they absolutely cannot start the season using LTIR like they did this year.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You need to be under the cap by a few million if Luke and Nemec are on the roster. Devils need to accrue cap space next year to account for potential performance bonuses and they absolutely cannot start the season using LTIR like they did this year.

pretty sure bonuses are already accounted for...hence ~$3.8 million for bonuses in the top right

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Whatever this Meier deal ends up being, if the Devils acquire him it’s going to be incredibly complicated.

Cap is going to be an issue for the Devils. Contract in and contract out is another issue for the Sharks. So even the logical let’s include Johnsson for cap purposes will need to be balanced by Sharks sending back a contract.

If Devils are giving up multiple players, they have to take back the same amount of contracts. Probably another NHL player coming back in the deal (Bonino?, Nuutivaara’s contract, Harrington?) and then that has cap implications in itself

Not sure it’s too complicated. If SJS retain 50% of the contract which they should be perfectly willing to do it’s not far off even cap wise with Sharangovich or Johnsson included in any deal. And then it’s likely filled in with prospects and such.

If the cap is close and it’s just a matter of then being full contract wise I’m that’s not too difficult to figure out whether it’s sending a contract or two back or dumping elsewhere.

Do agree that Sharangovich being included in any deal might make sense because it would somewhat even the cap but I think that really comes down to whether SJS is interested in him as a player. We’re not gonna include him in the deal to even out the cap if SJS don’t view him as a valuable and notable part of the deal. It’s more likely Johnsson if that’s what we’re trying to do.

 

[Eggtimer]

By god...is that Josh Anderson's music I'm hearing??!!!

Dont you even dare mess around with possibly cursing us and it happens

 

[Eggtimer]

Not sure it’s too complicated. If SJS retain 50% of the contract which they should be perfectly willing to do it’s not far off even cap wise with Sharangovich or Johnsson included in any deal. And then it’s likely filled in with prospects and such.

If the cap is close and it’s just a matter of then being full contract wise I’m that’s not too difficult to figure out whether it’s sending a contract or two back or dumping elsewhere.

Do agree that Sharangovich being included in any deal might make sense because it would somewhat even the cap but I think that really comes down to whether SJS is interested in him as a player. We’re not gonna include him in the deal to even out the cap if SJS don’t view him as a valuable and notable part of the deal. It’s more likely Johnsson if that’s what we’re trying to do.

If we offer enough , the beancounters and cap specialists will figure it out. I’m not that worried about that aspect of things . What I am concerned about are teams in a simular situation as we are ( Buffalo ,Canes ,Red Wings ) where we all have tons of good young prospects , picks , and looking to turn the corner and add one of the final pieces. Only saving grace is that I think Buffalo sees themselves as one year out still from trading assets out to add to current roster plus they are stacked at forward and need D more. Same with Canes. They were rumoured to want a D (before Patches was hurt ) and a C (Horvat / O’Reilly ) makes more sense for them. Red Wings - no real rumors they are interested , mostly fan speculation and can’t see them risk trading their 1st when they are currently out of the playoffs . Plus I thimk they are still a year away from movig asstets to top off their roster .
Rags - cant see them give up required assets on a rental (no way they let Miller , Chytil , Laff walk to extend Meier ).
I heard some speculation that the Jets could be interested… I dont see it . They need to replace Dubois after he walks . A defendman or C makes more sense for them.
Kraken…can’t see it . They are still in building phase and can’t really afford to give up assets yet.
???? Not sure what other teams could be in on Meier based off of needs , have the assets , cap room , to pull a trade off

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

pretty sure bonuses are already accounted for...hence ~$3.8 million for bonuses in the top right

Those performance bonuses would knock down the 24-25 cap which the Devils would not risk. If you look at the next page there is 55.6 for Fs, 20.6 for D, 4.2 for G and 2.3 Dead. That is $82 and change. They need more of a cushion for next year. I really do not know what that Bonus number represents TBH