Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[FooteBahl]

If any of you guys/gals are traveling to Nashville tomorrow, be careful if you’re staying until Friday. I got some intel about a potential civil unrest on Friday in regards to the recent Memphis police killing. Rumor has it the body camera footage will be released Friday afternoon and it’s Rodney King-like

Edit: mods please don’t delete this. It’s slightly off topic, but it involves the potential safety of some the posters who may be in the area this weekend.

 

[Forge]

If any of you guys/gals traveling to Nashville tomorrow, be careful if you’re staying until Friday. I got some intel about a potential civil unrest on Friday in regards to the recent Memphis police killing. Rumor has it the body camera footage will be released Friday afternoon and it’s Rodney King-like

Not to get too off topic...but yeah, I expect it to be bad. They fired all of the cops involved I think, which kind of tells me a lot about what this is going to look like.

I dealt with some riots when I Lived in Cincinnati in the early 2000's...definitely be safe for those going

 

[FooteBahl]

Not to get too off topic...but yeah, I expect it to be bad. They fired all of the cops involved I think, which kind of tells me a lot about what this is going to look like.

I dealt with some riots when I Lived in Cincinnati in the early 2000's...definitely be safe for those going

Yes they were all fired. The only potential saving grace is that race is a non-factor in this.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Commissioner Gordon approves of the Brattman as well.

Rich Chere never had "scoops" like this.

 

[Bleedred]

Vitek will get us at least a point in the game he plays in this final set. I can feel it.

Not sure who will play what game

Blackwood is 0-2-0 against Dallas with a .907% and 0-1-1 with an .860% against Nashville. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't played Dallas since 19-20, but I remember he played Nashville last year once.

Vitek is 0-0-1 with an .833% against Nashville and that game was this year. Against Dallas he's 1-1-0 with a .942% and 1 shutout against Dallas.

Schmid was in net when we played Dallas this year.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Vitek will get us at least a point in the game he plays in this final set. I can feel it.

Not sure who will play what game

Blackwood is 0-2-0 against Dallas with a .907% and 0-1-1 with an .860% against Nashville. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't played Dallas since 19-20, but I remember he played Nashville last year once.

Vitek is 0-0-1 with an .833% against Nashville and that game was this year. Against Dallas he's 1-1-0 with a .942% and 1 shutout against Dallas.

Schmid was in net when we played Dallas this year.

2-1-1 out of this week is good enough for me

 

[Guttersniped]

I'll quibble with you a bit on Smith. He's not a good player, but he is a veteran presence and serviceable as a 6/7 type.

If the need at forward wasn't so glaring, and our cap space so limited, I would say that a depth defenseman to push him out of the lineup would be a smart deadline add.

Disagree. While Smith annoys the hell out of me at times, including letting Karlsson out-hustle him to the puck behind the net on the 2nd goal vs Vegas, teams typically don’t get these results at #6 for 1.1m in a hard cap world.

The results are usually worse even if the player is more expensive.

I also don’t know what cheap defensive defenseman is coming, and out-performing him, while being new to our system.

What depth defenseman that we can we afford will push Smith out of the line-up? Kulikov? Would he even be better? (And that’s assuming we can make his 2.25m cap hit work.)

 

[Guttersniped]

The charts about Seattle's skater depth were really interesting. There's been some movement on that in baseball in the last number of years: teams that might not be able to land superstars focus instead on making sure that ever spot in the lineup has a guy in it who's capable of producing at least or slightly above league average WAR, try to develop a few guys better than that, but in the meantime field a club that might not have huge gamebreaking talent in it, but also lacks any real holes or players actively harming their chances to win. Obviously you'd rather have superstars AND depth, but it's just not always possible. As hockey stats progress, have to think there'll be teams focusing on their fourth lines this way; the days of "well, it's the fourth line, they need to be defensive grinders because the puck will always be in their zone" are waning, anyway.

As for Timo...yeah, gotta give if you want to get. This team has the talent to make a run this year and numerous years after, and he'd be a key cog for it, so there aren't too many pieces off the table. Still, it'd be nice to not have to give up a total king's ransom; go ahead and trade the 1st rounder and see what you can get away with after that. SJ might like the pick even if its low: no reason why they couldn't accumulate a few picks in other deals and then trade up in a deep draft if they feel the need.

As for Wood, I kind of feel for the guy, really does seem like he hasn't been the same since getting hit, and sadly he just doesn't have the overall game to overcome any physical shortcomings he's playing through. His locker room presence might be making it tough to sit him out now, but maybe the All Star break will do him some good. There's no denying that the difference between the Devils being a dangerous playoff team and the Devils being an actual Cup contender is the production they get from the bottom six; during the early winning streak they played a big role in creating a relentless attack almost every shift, and that's something they'd had a hard time consistently doing for awhile now. Obviously getting Timo would help there since it'd slot a lot of people down a spot, but again, maybe the break will fix a few ills there.

Seattle’s roster is decidedly shaped by an expansion draft that happened with an unexpected roster freeze. They were also aggressive buyers on a soft UFA market.

The biggest lesson from recent years is the most disposable thing in the NHL is non-elite wingers. When the cap got tight teams borderline gave them away and sometimes couldn’t even do that. Don’t invest too much in too many because there’s always some available.

Seattle is also successful in part because they got Beniers and he’s better than some people thought. Centers are the most valuable skaters always, they make the world go round.

Also RHD is harder to get than LHD. And goalies *checks notes* are voodoo.

 

[Bleedred]

Disagree. While Smith annoys the hell out of me at times, including letting Karlsson out-hustle him to the puck behind the net on the 2nd goal vs Vegas, teams typically don’t get these results at #6 for 1.1m in a hard cap world.

View attachment 641528

The results are usually worse even if the player is more expensive.

I also don’t know what cheap defensive defenseman is coming, and out-performing him, while being new to our system.

What depth defenseman that we can we afford will push Smith out of the line-up? Kulikov? Would he even be better? (And that’s assuming we can make his 2.25m cap hit work.)

I didn't really like the 2 year deal, just because I knew he would be an every night defenseman, while a lot of people here thought he'd just be the 7th and I'm not sure why. He's been a healthy scratch just once this year. Don't get me wrong, I always thought he'd be fine as an every nighter, just didn't really think he'd also be a fine as an every nighter next year as well.

That said, I really don't have much issue with him. I thought he had a TERRIBLE game last night. Maybe he had stagefright playing against his brother lol. He has a tendency to take bad penalties and he's pretty slow, but he's a lot better than some of the guys I see other teams icing.

Travis Hamonic played over 20 minutes tonight for Ottawa and has averaged 3 more minutes per game this season than Smith has. We could do so much worse than him.

I went through a Bahl phase (that sounded kind of weird, didn't it?) earlier in the year, but I'm way over him and really don't think I'd ever scratch Smith for him again, barring a really significant drop from Smith.

 

[Guttersniped]

-

Yeah - this is actually the reason to hold onto Severson. It's that you need depth through the playoffs. No way you can count on Dougie and Marino being healthy throughout. Having someone like Severson who can step in and lead the team in minutes is a HUGE luxury.

It's actually the kind of luxury that almost demands you try to win the Cup.

It's why I'd like them to trade for Timo before / at the deadline vs after the season. Even if it costs slightly more to make the Sharks an offer they can't refuse. It's just not clear when the Devils will have a defense like this again. Maybe in 3-4 years when Luke and Nemec are fully integrated?

I feel like there’s a slight chance for a Severson trade out of nowhere if we need to make the cap space for a Meier trade.

SJ has zero cap flexibility too and I doubt they would be particularly enthusiastic about taking back a cap dump or retaining salary.

Maybe they do.

But we could be competing with an offer from Carolina that doesn’t require them to take a cap dump back or retain any salary. That offer sounds better because of that.

 

[tailfins]

I feel like there’s a slight chance for a Severson trade out of nowhere if we need to make the cap space for a Meier trade.

SJ has zero cap flexibility too and I doubt they would be particularly enthusiastic about taking back a cap dump or retaining salary.

Maybe they do.

But we could be competing with an offer from Carolina that doesn’t require them to take a cap dump back or retain any salary. That offer sounds better because of that.

Cap flexibility (for the Sharks and other teams) is the reason I think Timo is t moved until the off-season.

That said, I don’t see why the Sharks would balk at retaining plus taking back Johnsson. The Devils just have to make it worthwhile for the Sharks to pull the trigger.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Smiths bad, but a manageable level of bad. I’ll yell at him but he’s not in the top 3 biggest problems on the roster.

I just don’t get why people claim he’s actually good or that they would rather him than Luke, even straight outta Michigan.

 

[jkrdevil]

Vitek will get us at least a point in the game he plays in this final set. I can feel it.

Not sure who will play what game

Blackwood is 0-2-0 against Dallas with a .907% and 0-1-1 with an .860% against Nashville. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't played Dallas since 19-20, but I remember he played Nashville last year once.

Vitek is 0-0-1 with an .833% against Nashville and that game was this year. Against Dallas he's 1-1-0 with a .942% and 1 shutout against Dallas.

Schmid was in net when we played Dallas this year.

It is a 3 in 4, you give the middle game to the backup.

 

[jkrdevil]

I feel like there’s a slight chance for a Severson trade out of nowhere if we need to make the cap space for a Meier trade.

SJ has zero cap flexibility too and I doubt they would be particularly enthusiastic about taking back a cap dump or retaining salary.

Maybe they do.

But we could be competing with an offer from Carolina that doesn’t require them to take a cap dump back or retain any salary. That offer sounds better because of that.

I don’t see why they wouldn’t take expiring money coming back any retained or expiring contract comes off the books after the season.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t take expiring money coming back any retained or expiring contract comes off the books after the season.

They have no space, they are currently under the cap because of LTIR.

They are also at the contract limit. A third team might need to get involved no matter where he goes

 

[Bleedred]

Smiths bad, but a manageable level of bad. I’ll yell at him but he’s not in the top 3 biggest problems on the roster.

I just don’t get why people claim he’s actually good or that they would rather him than Luke, even straight outta Michigan.

That’s why I didn’t like the 2 year deal. I think Luke will be better next year and he’s probably better right this second, but he’s not available to us at the moment.

 

[Bleedred]

It is a 3 in 4, you give the middle game to the backup.

The Nashville Saros are also the weaker team.

Keyword though: Saros

You just have to beat their goalie.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Guttersniped]

That’s why I didn’t like the 2 year deal. I think Luke will be better next year and he’s probably better right this second, but he’s not available to us at the moment.

Who knows if he signs at all, much less for the same amount, if it’s not 2 years.

1.1m is fine because they can bury his ass in the AHL if they have too so I don’t have a problem with a 2 year deal.

I would like to see Okhotiuk play more but there isn’t a coach in NHL history that’s reticent about playing non-elite rookie defensemen.

And, again, I can’t stress enough how often Smith genuinely annoys me during actual games. But what do you want for 1.1m. In this economy?

 

[jkrdevil]

They have no space, they are currently under the cap because of LTIR.

They are also at the contract limit. A third team might need to get involved no matter where he goes

But they are going to be trading away a guy who has a $6 million cap hit. They can take back or retain any combination that adds up to $6 million.

Plus I would guess they move a guy like Bonino that open up more flexibility for them.

 

[Bleedred]

I only even know who those players are because of how much they sucked. Especially O’Brien.

Upshall for being a colossal bust, on top of him tweeting out a picture of him at the beach (I think?) or on vacation somewhere during the 2012 lockout.

I might have the wrong player, but I’m pretty sure it was him and tweeting out #lockoutproblems. Just poor taste. Right up there with Modano’s “I can’t afford to feed my dog” comments from 2005 and then there was James Neal’s comments about having to hand out smaller candy bars for trick or treaters because the lockout caused him not to able to afford the big stuff lol.

 

[Guttersniped]

They have no space, they are currently under the cap because of LTIR.

They are also at the contract limit. A third team might need to get involved no matter where he goes

And San Jose only has two salary retention slots now because the traded Burns is taking up one for 3 years. Teams like to keep those slots open.

It’s easy to say “they won’t mind” and “we can make it worth their while”.

If Carolina and/or Buffalo bids, they don’t need any salary retention or cap dumps. How much are we adding to beat them out and make SJ not mind? Can it work with their own current cap hell?

I don’t feel the need to figure out specifics because 1) cap shit sucks 2) I never predict any of this sort of stuff right ever, but there’s some wishful thinking involved when people simply assume San Jose will be incredibly accommodating with cap space in a Meier trade this early season.

 

[My3Sons]

I only even know who those players are because of how much they sucked. Especially O’Brien.

Upshall for being a colossal bust, on top of him tweeting out a picture of him at the beach (I think?) or on vacation somewhere during the 2012 lockout.

I might have the wrong player, but I’m pretty sure it was him and tweeting out #lockoutproblems. Just poor taste. Right up there with Modano’s “I can’t afford to feed my dog” comments from 2005 and then there was James Neal’s comments about having to hand out smaller candy bars for trick or treaters because the lockout caused him not to able to afford the big stuff lol.

That’s tone deaf and petty and why the average person has little sympathy for the players when labor strife happens. I’m not sure that the owners are any better but they don’t usually thumb their noses directly at the fans. They are clever enough to lie to us.

 

[njdevils1982]

That’s tone deaf and petty and why the average person has little sympathy for the players when labor strife happens. I’m not sure that the owners are any better but they don’t usually thumb their noses directly at the fans. They are clever enough to lie to us.

it's hard to say what's enough to retire but there are guys that have it made already.

(E Kane, et al notwithstanding)

 

[MadDevil]

I mean, just look at this hard hitting piece of analysis from them...