Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Bleedred]

I would not bring up stats when it comes to this player. Almost every model out there sees him as a piece of turd.

That's kind of my point here. If there's stats that paint the picture that he's not that bad and there's things he's good at, are there any players that are universally agreed upon by EVERY SINGLE STAT as being a bad player?

Like maybe Mason Geertsen or Cam Janssen?

 

[Devils731]

I guess we go with the eye test when it serves us.

Well yes, I’ve watched basically every game of Wood’s career. I see his numbers and explained why they likely poorly represent Wood.

Do you disagree that these criticisms are true of Wood? I don’t think you would if you’ve been watching him.

Or we could just blindly go by these 2 numbers and ignore any eye test or explanation. The numbers must be perfect and can never measure anything improperly.

 

[devilsblood]

I would not bring up stats when it comes to this player. Almost every model out there sees him as a piece of turd.

Like JFresh players cards? The name itself makes me skeptical.

No one here knows what actually goes into these models, yet roll them out as if they are of clear quality.

 

[devilsblood]

Well yes, I’ve watched basically every game of Wood’s career. I see his numbers and explained why they likely poorly represent Wood.

Do you disagree that these criticisms are true of Wood? I don’t think you would if you’ve been watching him.

Or we could just blindly go by these 2 numbers and ignore any eye test or explanation. The numbers must be perfect and can never measure anything improperly.

I do disagree. He's just not burying his chances.

And it's cool that you doubled the previous assertion that I posted 2 numbers. But I've posted a half dozen.

The irony here is it really comes down to one stat for the recent criticism. Lack of goals.

 

[Devils731]

Most metrics and models assume you and your team play the game in a mostly normal manner.

Wood is a unique player and is more likely than other players to be modeled poorly by the numbers.

How many other players in the league end up with a line whose option A or B is to blindly flip the puck to the player in the neutral zone and hope the player can skate around the defender.

If Wood receives that flip pass and the shoots the puck limply from the point it’s a scoring chance according to natural stat trick though. Most players wouldn’t repeatedly get an opportunity like that and it probably juiced Wood’s metrics.

 

[devilsblood]

That's kind of my point here. If there's stats that paint the picture that he's not that bad and there's things he's good at, are there any players that are universally agreed upon by EVERY SINGLE STAT as being a bad player?

Like maybe Mason Geertsen or Cam Janssen?

Holtz has reall bad numbers this year.

But guys want him in the lineup.

 

[Hisch13r]

Sam Steel?


I would've went with

Shara-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Hischier-Zetterlund
Tatar-Haula-Mercer
Boqvist-McLeod-Bastian

I like that. Another option I’d look at is moving Bratt to the 3rd line using him like Boston uses Hall. Then Palat with Jack/Yegor and Tatar back with Nico/Zetterlund

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Like JFresh players cards? The name itself makes me skeptical.

No one here knows what actually goes into these models, yet roll them out as if they are of clear quality.

Here’s the thing…I literally do not need any stats to see that Miles Wood doesn’t use his teammates effectively. His lines don’t function like basically every other line we put together because he lacks the ability to pass. And he’s also clueless defensively, has lost a step, and barely even plays with an edge anymore.

 

[Devils731]

I do disagree. He's just not burying his chances.

And it's cool that you doubled the previous assertion that I posted 2 numbers. But I've posted a half dozen.

The irony here is it really comes down to one stat for the recent criticism. Lack of goals.

You defended him using scoring chances, high danger chances, and expected goals per 60. Expected goals is mostly a function of the first 2 so it’s really just 2 numbers.

Wood doesn’t just have lack of goals recently, he barely looks dangerous.

The crappy defense and inability to elevate teammates is still in his game though.

 

[Hisch13r]

Wood was legitimately good in 2021. He hasn’t been an NHL caliber player for nearly 2 months now though.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Holtz has reall bad numbers this year.

But guys want him in the lineup.

Most want him in the AHL. Anyway, he has a goal from distance that Miles Wood only dreams he could have. He’s shown flashes of how he’ll score in his very limited opportunity. He probably isn’t ready to be a net positive player yet, but Miles Wood clearly isn’t that either.

 

[Bleedred]

Holtz has reall bad numbers this year.

But guys want him in the lineup.

I don't. I don't think he's been good at all.

I've been calling for him to be sent back to the AHL for 2 months now.

I also wouldn't mind if he's the centerpiece in a Timo trade.

That said, people saying he hasn't been given a chance have a legitimate gripe. I don't like the way he's been handled. Healthy scratch more often than not, they won't send him to the AHL except for basically a conditioning stint when he didn't play a single game anywhere for a month and then they play him with guys that really aren't going to help him when they actually do play him.

 

[devilsblood]

Most metrics and models assume you and your team play the game in a mostly normal manner.

Wood is a unique player and is more likely than other players to be modeled poorly by the numbers.

How many other players in the league end up with a line whose option A or B is to blindly flip the puck to the player in the neutral zone and hope the player can skate around the defender.

If Wood receives that flip pass and the shoots the puck limply from the point it’s a scoring chance according to natural stat trick though. Most players wouldn’t repeatedly get an opportunity like that and it probably juiced Wood’s metrics.

I'd say the models paint a more negative picture of Wood then is actually true.

I don't really point to the models, given I don't know what goes into the models, but if anyone does know what goes into those models, that would help the discussion.

The stats are much more clear cut.

The limp point shot is just some made up stuff though.

 

[Devils731]

Holtz has reall bad numbers this year.

But guys want him in the lineup.

Holtz scores goals at a better per 60 clip in all situations than Wood so I guess Holtz is the better player now.

If we define good play as just this number then Holtz is better.

 

[Eggtimer]

Here’s the thing…I literally do not need any stats to see that Miles Wood doesn’t use his teammates effectively. His lines don’t function like basically every other line we put together because he lacks the ability to pass. And he’s also clueless defensively, has lost a step, and barely even plays with an edge anymore.

True. Rifht now Wood to me is almost useless. He is good for trying to skate under a lob pass or beat out an icing. When he does get the puck it’s either whip it on goal or rim it around the boards back to the D. He has zero “vision“ . Zero . And zero creativity and hockey IQ. With having these negatives , you’d hope he can bring other things to jis game like a furious forecheck but … it’s just not there ?
I homestly thjmk him gettig blown up by Romanov screwe’d him up

 

[Devils731]

I'd say the models paint a more negative picture of Wood then is actually true.

I don't really point to the models, given I don't know what goes into the models, but if anyone does know what goes into those models, that would help the discussion.

The stats are much more clear cut.

The limp point shot is just some made up stuff though.

I don’t know how you can’t see Wood is a serial limp shooter. It’s shocking a Devils fan wouldn’t know Wood routinely takes weak shots much more often than other NHL players.

 

[devilsblood]

Most want him in the AHL. Anyway, he has a goal from distance that Miles Wood only dreams he could have. He’s shown flashes of how he’ll score in his very limited opportunity. He probably isn’t ready to be a net positive player yet, but Miles Wood clearly isn’t that either.

You are right on Holtz. -4 5v5.

Incorrect on Wood . +4 5v5.

 

[devilsblood]

Holtz scores goals at a better per 60 clip in all situations than Wood so I guess Holtz is the better player now.

If we define good play as just this number then Holtz is better.

This again goes back to people acting like I'm posting one stat. I'm not. There are multiple stats which say Wood is playing well, just not burying chances. And even without burying his chances of late he is +4 5v5. Holtz is a negative.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You are right on Holtz. -4 5v5.

Incorrect on Wood . +4 5v5.

I knew that was coming. This team is an absolute wagon this season and he’s a -1 and not even getting 50% of shot attempts.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Can it be Timo time yet?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This again goes back to people acting like I'm posting one stat. I'm not. There are multiple stats which say Wood is playing well, just not burying chances. And even without burying his chances of late he is +4 5v5. Holtz is a negative.

You cannot possibly believe Miles Wood is playing well. I refuse to believe that’s something you think.

 

[GameSeven]

Can it be Timo time yet?

Is it too soon to spam these?

 

[Cheddabombs]

Can it be Timo time yet?

It's honestly rude of them at this point

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

There's so many stats he's bad at that I think they would cancel those out.

This is reminding me of Bryce Salvador's last year or two in the NHL where most people would say he sucked, but one poster would come in and say ''Well, actually he doesn't, because in this stat he's actually very good and he also is in that stat as well. He really isn't a net negative player and does more good than bad''. I think it was the same with Dainius Zubrus in his last year or two.

And that poster's name: Bryce Salvador

 

[devilsblood]

You cannot possibly believe Miles Wood is playing well. I refuse to believe that’s something you think.

I do think he has lost some jump since the hit. But it's mostly that he is not burying chances.

Hopefully the AS break gives him a chance to freshen up.