Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[glenwo2]

Can't even get excited for this coming season knowing it could be the last for Bratt as a Devil......meh.

 

[My3Sons]

Can't even get excited for this coming season knowing it could be the last for Bratt as a Devil......meh.

It’s the reality of the modern NHL. The lifer or at least long term player will be the exception not the rule. As a fan you can only let yourself get so attached to any player before it wil become a disappointment.

 

[Nubmer6]

Can't even get excited for this coming season knowing it could be the last for Bratt as a Devil......meh.

Honestly, I can't see us giving him up without a fight.

 

[My3Sons]

Honestly, I can't see us giving him up without a fight.

I realize you are a bigger guy but didn’t you see the way Bratt took on Marchand? Don’t bite off more than you can chew.

 

[Guttersniped]

Well, he was there before Lou, which I had actually forgotten about until you pointed that out a few weeks back.

But yeah, he'll probably be ousted too, as he's the AGM and the new GM will wanna bring in his own new partner. I knew he was with the Islanders before Lou, but didn't realize he was the assistant GM for an entire year before Lou got there and Garth Snow was still the GM. He's listed as director of player personnel for the Islanders in 16-17 and assistant GM/GM of Bridgeport in the years since.

A guy like him should have no problems finding a job in the league doing something, if not just as a scout somewhere. He did go the entire 15-16 season without a job though, as he's not listed as part of any team staff for that year.

I know Chris was there before Lou, I’ve mentioned it before, but he was also hired when the new owners came in.

Making him Assistant GM & GM of Bridgeport the year before they hired Lou was an obvious set up for Lou’s arrival. At that point it was obvious Lou wasn’t staying in Toronto after his 3 year contract was up.

Maybe the original hire for Director of Player Personnel wasn’t them just playing the long game to get Lou too. Snow was always handcuffed by lack of money and even the AGMs he had, when he one on skeletal staffs, were young scouts or Doug Weight (while coaching), so Chris was a step above in terms of managerial experience. Snow was also dead man walking at that point so they weren’t trying to help him for the future.

Not suggesting CL is unemployable but I also don’t see him as an GM or AGM if Lou isn’t involved. I could be wrong.

I’m genuinely curious to find out what happens to Chris post-Lou. It’s amusing to see some Islander fans have the same dark visions as some Devils fan had back in the day with Chris succeeding his father as GM.

Also, how the Devils do has no effect on our ability to make judgements on other teams. We weren’t granted special leave to judge teams in our Cup years. I don’t think Tampa fans have more rights to opinions, or better ones, than Sabres fans now. Not how it works for me. And I’ve never cared what other fans said about the Devils at any point in time.

Lou did some good things in Toronto but that’s the one job where he didn’t rule alone on an island so it’s hard to make out what happened. Shanahan brought in a bunch of people, Mark Hunter and Babcock were voices in the room as well as Shanahan.

Humorously, part of the idea was for Lou to mentor Dubas. You would think Lou having a non-existent direct management tree after 30 years would have been a clue that he doesn’t do that sort of thing. He reportedly didn’t even talk to Dubas.

People somewhat overrate the turnaround under the Isles because everything went wrong the season before in 2017-18.

They made the playoffs 3 out 5 times in previous years, with two 100 points seasons. The two best regular seasons under Lou were when they managed to squeeze most the offense out of that team, and the 2018-19 team was the peak of the team defensively. Not sure what happens this season, they arguably have the best goalie tandem in the NHL.

The Islanders do have a problem with what the Islanders fans are saying about their team. Not sure if the Coyotes scorched earth rebuild will work but they are building a team for their new arena. Making the ECF twice before moving in and then having 2021-22 happen in the UBS Center was not ideal timing. Fans turn quickly and bitch about everything.

I liked their draft, Odelius and George were two of my favorite defensemen in the draft, but they have a very thin pool and Lou simply makes zero effort to get extra assets as always.

I too used to be sensitive about Lou’s long term rep back in the day, but it’s clear that’s obviously safe and sound at this point so people need to chill when he gets criticized. High profile management gets criticized, if they didn’t want that then they wouldn’t take those jobs.

Lou beefed up the Isles organization with the new ownership’s money and it really needed it. He didn’t fire the people already there, just like Shero didn’t fire the people who preceded him. The changes are slower than people think. He did build up the NYI analytics dept to one of the biggest in the NHL, from, not surprisingly, not having paid analysts under Snow.

 

[mdj12784]

Yeah, so..... Is it possible that this is the year that Kovy finally returns to the Devils?

He's still got a f***in hell of a shot and can bring that veteran leadership and experience we need on a still young team.

Maybe he's that missing piece to really push us into the playoffs and beyond?

Thanks for an awkward time to get erect…

 

[Guadana]

Very excited for this coming season. And I don't expect to reach the playoffs yet.

 

[Xirik]

Well I don't know much about NJ but ______ is a beautiful place, ______ player would love to play there.

Why do so many trade NJ trade proposals end up like this?

 

[FooteBahl]

Thanks for an awkward time to get erect…

I hope your not at a 6 year old dance recital lol

 

[glenwo2]

Honestly, I can't see us giving him up without a fight.

I realize you are a bigger guy but didn’t you see the way Bratt took on Marchand? Don’t bite off more than you can chew.

How do you know he's bigger?

 

[glenwo2]

I hope your not at a 6 year old dance recital lol

 

[mdj12784]

I hope your not at a 6 year old dance recital lol

No no no. Lol.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I hope your not at a 6 year old dance recital lol

 

[My3Sons]

How do you know he's bigger?

He talked about it in the thread about hat size.

 

[glenwo2]

He talked about it in the thread about hat size.

Riiight.

"hat" size.

Got it.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Dammit, no more slap jokes

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Dammit, no more slap jokes

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Dammit, no more slap jokes

No no, the opposite, more slap jokes!

 

[tailfins]

I know Chris was there before Lou, I’ve mentioned it before, but he was also hired when the new owners came in.

Making him Assistant GM & GM of Bridgeport the year before they hired Lou was an obvious set up for Lou’s arrival. At that point it was obvious Lou wasn’t staying in Toronto after his 3 year contract was up.

Maybe the original hire for Director of Player Personnel wasn’t them just playing the long game to get Lou too. Snow was always handcuffed by lack of money and even the AGMs he had, when he one on skeletal staffs, were young scouts or Doug Weight (while coaching), so Chris was a step above in terms of managerial experience. Snow was also dead man walking at that point so they weren’t trying to help him for the future.

Not suggesting CL is unemployable but I also don’t see him as an GM or AGM if Lou isn’t involved. I could be wrong.

I’m genuinely curious to find out what happens to Chris post-Lou. It’s amusing to see some Islander fans have the same dark visions as some Devils fan had back in the day with Chris succeeding his father as GM.

Also, how the Devils do has no effect on our ability to make judgements on other teams. We weren’t granted special leave to judge teams in our Cup years. I don’t think Tampa fans have more rights to opinions, or better ones, than Sabres fans now. Not how it works for me. And I’ve never cared what other fans said about the Devils at any point in time.

Lou did some good things in Toronto but that’s the one job where he didn’t rule alone on an island so it’s hard to make out what happened. Shanahan brought in a bunch of people, Mark Hunter and Babcock were voices in the room as well as Shanahan.

Humorously, part of the idea was for Lou to mentor Dubas. You would think Lou having a non-existent direct management tree after 30 years would have been a clue that he doesn’t do that sort of thing. He reportedly didn’t even talk to Dubas.

People somewhat overrate the turnaround under the Isles because everything went wrong the season before in 2017-18.

They made the playoffs 3 out 5 times in previous years, with two 100 points seasons. The two best regular seasons under Lou were when they managed to squeeze most the offense out of that team, and the 2018-19 team was the peak of the team defensively. Not sure what happens this season, they arguably have the best goalie tandem in the NHL.

The Islanders do have a problem with what the Islanders fans are saying about their team. Not sure if the Coyotes scorched earth rebuild will work but they are building a team for their new arena. Making the ECF twice before moving in and then having 2021-22 happen in the UBS Center was not ideal timing. Fans turn quickly and bitch about everything.

I liked their draft, Odelius and George were two of my favorite defensemen in the draft, but they have a very thin pool and Lou simply makes zero effort to get extra assets as always.

I too used to be sensitive about Lou’s long term rep back in the day, but it’s clear that’s obviously safe and sound at this point so people need to chill when he gets criticized. High profile management gets criticized, if they didn’t want that then they wouldn’t take those jobs.

Lou beefed up the Isles organization with the new ownership’s money and it really needed it. He didn’t fire the people already there, just like Shero didn’t fire the people who preceded him. The changes are slower than people think. He did build up the NYI analytics dept to one of the biggest in the NHL, from, not surprisingly, not having paid analysts under Snow.

The problem I have with the Lou criticism is that so much of it is wrong. It has the "theory" of being right, but in actuality it's wrong. Everyone said Lou was screwed when Tavares left (conveniently left out of your review of the Isles team that Lou took over). Then when they continued to win, it was unsustainable goaltending. Then it was that they only made the playoffs because of the "play-in". Two ECFs later, it's now, "well he took over a very good team" and "all he did was hire Trotz". Along with lots of talk of how the Isles are screwed for the future. Which is being taken as the new gospel.

I don't really care that the criticism is about Lou. (I am emotionally invested in what he did here, so I care somewhat.) Still, my bigger issue is criticism of someone who's actively trying to win.

All teams eventually hit rough patches. You can continue to forecast that any team will be bad. Eventually, you'll be right. Does that make up for the other X times you were wrong?

At what point do people say they were wrong in their interpretations?

(Note: This is a criticism of the fans, not the Devils. IMO, Fitz does seem to be trying to win. But, I think the Devils fans here have - by and large - been ok with losing for many years.)

Edit: added in the Trotz hire

 

[MartyOwns]

i feel victimized.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Can't even get excited for this coming season knowing it could be the last for Bratt as a Devil......meh.

That's how I was with Parise as a kid tbh. He was my favorite Devil since I started following in 2008 but after that 3 year span of losing him, Kovy, and Marty, I don't think any Devils departure could ever get me sad or angry. With how the NHL works, there's always guys on rosters that you can rally around as a player. I do think Bratt signs long term though, if it made arbitration I'd be singing a different tune.

 

[NjDevsRR]

 

[Guttersniped]

The problem I have with the Lou criticism is that so much of it is wrong. It has the "theory" of being right, but in actuality it's wrong. Everyone said Lou was screwed when Tavares left (conveniently left out of your review of the Isles team that Lou took over). Then when they continued to win, it was unsustainable goaltending. Then it was that they only made the playoffs because of the "play-in". Two ECFs later, it's now, "well he took over a very good team" along with lots of talk of how the Isles are screwed for the future. Which is being taken as the new gospel.

I don't really care that the criticism is about Lou. (I am emotionally invested in what he did here, so I care somewhat.) Still, my bigger issue is criticism of someone who's actively trying to win.

All teams eventually hit rough patches. You can continue to forecast that any team will be bad. Eventually, you'll be right. Does that make up for the other X times you were wrong?

At what point do people say they were wrong in their interpretations?

(Note: This is a criticism of the fans, not the Devils. IMO, Fitz does seem to be trying to win. But, I think the Devils fans here have - by and large - been ok with losing for many years.)

I don’t know how I suddenly represent all the criticisms of Lou and/or the Islanders on the board.

I didn’t even dump on him or NYI in the post. I said the Islanders arguably have the best goalie tandem in the NHL this season. Not sure how that can be interpreted as “unsustainable goaltending”.

They did most likely only make the playoffs in 2019-20 because of the shutdown and unique qualifying round. By March they had dropped out of a playoff spot and were bad in pretty much every way possible. That’s just true.

Their 2018-19 scoring by committee was really coming from unexpected places, Cizikas was more of a 3C but their 4C, Filppula, scored 17 goals to go with his 20 that season.

Looks like I overestimated the offense that season though, it was definitely how much they kept GA down in the regular season that was the difference in their best seasons:

SEASON: GF/GP GA/GP
2021-22: 2.79 (22nd-tie) 2.82 (7th-tie) .512%
2020-21: 2.71 (21st) 2.23 (2nd) .634%
2019-20: 2.78 (22nd) 2.79 (9th) .588%
2018-19: 2.72 (22nd) 2.33 (1st) .628%

Statistically speaking, those super low GAs are harder to maintain and the team needs more offense.

You’re assigning me generic alleged ‘board takes’ about the NYI here though. I don’t make all that many forecasts about any team, or as I like to call them, guesses. You can get on a high horse if you predicted the NYI not making the playoffs this season, and also Trotz getting fired, plus correctly guessing what will happen next season. If not, then your guesses are as good as anyone else’s.

I don’t even particularly dislike the Islanders, at least compared to other OG divisional rivals (earmuffs @Bleedred ). I was enthusiastically rooting against them in the PO but we had picks at stake.

I know we got lectures about the Islanders being contenders that we were supposed to be in quiet unquestioning awe of… or something to that effect. Those lectures were switched to the Rangers this season tho.

People on this board aren’t required to be extra vigilant or scrupulously fair when discussing other GMs or teams.

Post-Devils Lou reminds of things that I do and don’t like about his approach. I just made a few comments, it wasn’t a exhaustive overview. When I said people might overrate the turnaround, he got the GM of the Year award both times they had their playoff runs.

I’m not against him winning those either, though I loath that award. Hell, I consider myself a borderline Lou apologist. I find some of the anti-Lou ranting amusing but they lost, when he retires the Devils org will slobber all over him.

Side Note: I did claim what others say about the Devils never bothers me, but that’s not true. The “Devils ruined hockey” narrative is so rage inducing, I can’t discuss it. I mean, WTF?

I just want to make everyone who says that head explode Scanners style.

So that definitely still bothers me.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

 

[Andre Palot]

Adam Aron is a partner? Why, he's the AMC CEO.

I demand AMC memestock...memes! Damnit, whose funding our meme division around here