Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[severian]

Lou absolutely deserves his flowers from the org.

Terrible post 2012 years aside, the guy was such an incredible figure in Hockey. He is The Manager, I've always likened him to Sir Alex Ferguson (for any football fans here). The only blemish is that Sir Alex knew when to go out on a high, Lou didn't.

Lou's post-2012 hasn't been bad. Obviously some lots of old school moves that don't seem to make sense in the new NHL, but he has turned both the Leafs and Isles into competitive franchises where before they were laughing stocks. He ran the Devils into the ground at the end trying to keep a good thing going, but that's what often happens after long term runs of success.

 

[Bleedred]

They are supposed to suggest that he is not a terrible defensive player as you implied? When he is on the ice, the opponent is generating chances less often than the average forward.

You are acting as if this dude is incompetent defensively, when the numbers say otherwise. He is also tremendous at taking the puck away from the other team.

He's really bad at defense because the goalies that have played here for pretty much all of his NHL career so far have really sucked.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Speaking of usernames . Perhaps ‘MVP Haula’ or something catchier like ‘Haula at your boy’ would suffice?

How about…

We Dumped Zacha Because We Gave Him a Million Opportunities and It’s Not a Matter if He’s Better Than Haula or Not?

Too wordy/long?

 

[Bleedred]

I'm sure Kyle Dubas was thinking about this when he traded for Murray and signed Samsonov.

''Well.... we made the playoffs anyway despite having below league average goaltending, so we can obviously do it again and just cross our fingers come playoff time. We have a former two time cup winner now who we just acquired. The only goalie to ever win the cup twice as a rookie. That's gotta be worth something!''.

But in all seriousness, Campbell was solid last year. Mrazek and Kallgren both had an .888% and combined for 30 starts and 34 appearances between the two of them. Coming into this year it looks like they don't even have a good goalie on the roster. I always knew Mrazek was a shit pail, even before the terrible season last year. Dubas was suckered by a small sample of .923% goaltending the year before, despite pretty poor goaltending since 2016-2017 from this player. He should have never given him a THREE year deal. This is where GM's are DUMB and this is why we're are certainly qualified to critique these guys and call them out on their errors.

But at least they had one good goalie on their roster coming into last season. It doesn't look like they have that this year. Matt Murray is an .899% since the start of the 19-20 season and hasn't even played 40 games in any of those seasons because he's a f***ing chronic injury case and can't stay on the ice.

Samsonov could benefit from a change of scenery. He had a solid 19-20 seasons, but it was a small number of games played, due to having to sit behind Holtby (who he was massively better than that season) who they were just giving starts based on who he used to be, despite knowing full well they weren't retaining him anyway after that year. But his last two years have sucked and he could never take the starting job from Vanecek. Maybe a change of scenery helps, but then you still got an injury case/poorly performing goalie over the last 3 years that was only not bought out by Ottawa (according to Friedman) because he wasn't yet medically cleared for a buyout before the trade.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Sure, but they were playing in meaningful hockey games.

So to say they haven’t played a meaningful game in a decade is nonsense.

Uh. I mean. Not soooo ridiculous, really?

The Hall thing was nice, but shit man, I've been invested every year since prolly '87 and there hadn't been much to like or care about since Kovy, Clarkie and Parise left. Except for us winning lotteries which has been lots of fun but not much for winning games.

Hall was such a weird case of: oh look some clown GM just gave us a superstar. We had no biz being in the playoffs.

I think my favorite moments over the last ten years was Hughes throwing his stick over the boards in OT, and that's sadly kinda gross.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Uh. I mean. Not soooo ridiculous, really?

The Hall thing was nice, but shit man, I've been invested every year since prolly '87 and there hadn't been much to like or care about since Kovy, Clarkie and Parise left. Except for us winning lotteries which has been lots of fun but not much for winning games.

Hall was such a weird case of: oh look some clown GM just gave us a superstar. We had no biz being in the playoffs.

I think my favorite moments over the last ten years was Hughes throwing his stick over the boards in OT, and that's sadly kinda gross.

Playing for the playoffs late in the season is meaningful hockey. Full stop.

 

[Devils731]

Playing for the playoffs late in the season is meaningful hockey. Full stop.

But if you take out the meaningful games there have been no meaningful games.

Take out Hall winning MVP and the Devils have never had a player win MVP too.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Playing for the playoffs late in the season is meaningful hockey. Full stop.

Yes, you are right of course. I wish that I had adopted some sort of false belief in that team. That run at the end was pretty good drama and our chips fell the right way, and there are teams that haven't sniffed the playoffs in a while... But even the frigging Yotes have had more meaningful games, so the last ten years overall have been butt ass ugly.

 

[Eggtimer]

Yes the Hall MVP year and playoffs was awesome but you knew it would be short lived and we were still far away from being legit cup contenders. Maybe you guys think differently but I knew it was a lucky and weird set of circumstances where the stars aligned properly for us to sneak into the playoffs .

 

[NJDevs26]

Yes the Hall MVP year and playoffs was awesome but you knew it would be short lived and we were still far away from being legit cup contenders. Maybe you guys think differently but I knew it was a lucky and weird set of circumstances where the stars aligned properly for us to sneak into the playoffs .

That’s irrelevant to the concept of ‘meaningful’…of course those games were meaningful, you guys are continually glossing over DevsRR’s point.

And sure nobody expected THAT team to repeat what it did the next year, the hope was that Shero would improve off that foundation (he didn’t), we’d get more run out of guys like Hall, Vatanen and Palms (not so much) and more kids would eventually come up (not in time for Shero)

 

[FinnishDevil]

Yeah, so..... Is it possible that this is the year that Kovy finally returns to the Devils?

He's still got a f***in hell of a shot and can bring that veteran leadership and experience we need on a still young team.

Maybe he's that missing piece to really push us into the playoffs and beyond?

Most of my "I wish he plays for the Devils one day" players ended up in NYR but still so glad we got Kovy back when we did. He's probably the most entertaining player to play for the Devils that I've seen. The leg strength he had, the size, the shot, that one time he beat the shit out of a Flyer, was it Schenn? Oh boy was he a treat to watch.

 

[Bleedred]

Yes the Hall MVP year and playoffs was awesome but you knew it would be short lived and we were still far away from being legit cup contenders. Maybe you guys think differently but I knew it was a lucky and weird set of circumstances where the stars aligned properly for us to sneak into the playoffs .

Schneider’s turn for the worst starting right around the time the team could have been competitive certainly set us back. The goaltending really ripped us apart right after the playoff year (it almost did in the playoff year and almost cost us the playoffs), but we won the Hughes lottery that year, so I have no regrets.

And if Blackwood doesn’t come close to pre-covid levels of play then that’s also gonna put a damper on things. Unless Vanecek can give us something big.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Crazy to think that he would still have 3 years remaining on that contract.

Loved him in 2012. Electrifying player.

Man, he actually seemed to be a little bit of a leader and put in a good defensive effort in 2011-12. I guess that's what separates the good leaders from the bad....they lead by example and put in the effort during the bad times along with the good.

Speaking of Zacha, he was one of the players that seemed like gave up very early on during the shitshow last season. You just have to get rid of a guy like that if you want a culture change.

 

[glenwo2]

Yes the Hall MVP year and playoffs was awesome but you knew it would be short lived and we were still far away from being legit cup contenders. Maybe you guys think differently but I knew it was a lucky and weird set of circumstances where the stars aligned properly for us to sneak into the playoffs .

I will forever be bitter at Hynes for not playing Bratt in 4 of the 5 games (only playing in a meaningless elimination game when it was a foregone conclusion that Tampa would win).

We would've had a better idea at how he would fare in a Playoff environment with a bigger sample size.

Would he have made a difference? Probably not but then again, we'll never know, will we? F*** HYNES.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I will forever be bitter at Hynes for not playing Bratt in 4 of the 5 games (only playing in a meaningless elimination game when it was a foregone conclusion that Tampa would win).

We would've had a better idea at how he would fare in a Playoff environment with a bigger sample size.

Would he have made a difference? Probably not but then again, we'll never know, will we? F*** HYNES.

Bratt looked cooked down the stretch of that season though, which was understandable as it was his first NA season. Lots of people on this board were calling for him to sit in the playoffs.

 

[Devs3cups]

Most of my "I wish he plays for the Devils one day" players ended up in NYR but still so glad we got Kovy back when we did. He's probably the most entertaining player to play for the Devils that I've seen. The leg strength he had, the size, the shot, that one time he beat the shit out of a Flyer, was it Schenn? Oh boy was he a treat to watch.

1:08. Legendary!

 

[glenwo2]

Bratt looked cooked down the stretch of that season though, which was understandable as it was his first NA season. Lots of people on this board were calling for him to sit in the playoffs.

Which was a dumb decision, imo.

Whether he was "cooked" or not, it's the playoff EXPERIENCE that he missed out on, which pissed me off.

I mean...look at the situation now.

4 seasons(Years) and no playoffs since then for Bratt.

He only has one single f'n Playoff game to his credit.

That's what gets me annoyed looking back on that decision.

 

[OmNomNom]

1:08. Legendary!

schenn got the last laugh w his career tho lolol

 

[SempreMilan]

Hell yes. Not to mention the fact that he still should get a banner of some kind in the Prudential Center...

1000000%

 

[SempreMilan]

Lou's post-2012 hasn't been bad. Obviously some lots of old school moves that don't seem to make sense in the new NHL, but he has turned both the Leafs and Isles into competitive franchises where before they were laughing stocks. He ran the Devils into the ground at the end trying to keep a good thing going, but that's what often happens after long term runs of success.

Nothing wrong with trying to keep the old school alive imo. Average Joe Beerguts opinion really means literally nothing. It's just a game and people take it WAAAAAY too seriously. Lou could run 10 organizations into the ground and would still be more important to hockey than 100% of the posters on this board. Hope he gets a statue.

 

[JK3]

I don't care what anyone says about Kovalchuk, contract shananagins aside, the dude was such an absolute beast. No one has come close to bringing me out of my seat when he carried the puck up ice like a thoroughbred on steroids than he did. If we won the cup in 2012 he would of went down as one the most memorable Devils players for us ever, he literally carried the team on his broken back the whole playoffs.

 

[SempreMilan]

I don't care what anyone say about Kovalchuk, contract shananagins aside, the dude was such an absolute beast. If we won the cup in 2012 he would of went down as one the most memorable Devils players for us ever, he literally carried the team on his broken back the whole playoffs.

Most exciting transaction in Devils history IMO. I'll always have a little love for Kovy

 

[RSeen]

Have to wonder what our PP looks like under Brunette. It was a serious weak point the last while.

PP1 could be Jack, Bratt, Nico, Dougie and Palat/Mercer

PP2 could be Yegor, Holtz, Bastian/Wood, Severson and Mercer/Palat.

Lots of options, even without considering Haula/Boqvist for PP2.

 

[Bleedred]

Lou's post-2012 hasn't been bad. Obviously some lots of old school moves that don't seem to make sense in the new NHL, but he has turned both the Leafs and Isles into competitive franchises where before they were laughing stocks. He ran the Devils into the ground at the end trying to keep a good thing going, but that's what often happens after long term runs of success.

Lou was a complete figurehead, in-name-only GM in Toronto. If Lou were really pulling the strings there like he did here and like he is with the Islanders, they would have never have tanked for Matthews. I do think he had some control there, like the Patrick Marleau contract was definitely his. That had Lou all over it. A 3 year deal for a 38 year old player. The Leafs also kicked their media off the team planes (which was how things were over here while Lou was here, I'd assume it's the same for the Islanders) and made them fly commercial separately. The facial hair stuff also applied over there. He was a placeholder/figurehead/transition GM there for Dubas. It's obvious Shanny was running things for the most part and Lou never had the control Dubas now does.

The Isles ''Competitive'' window looks to have been nothing but a short burst. They're on track to be even worse than Garth Snow left them.

I would say his last two-three years here were more than ''Hasn't been bad''. It's arguable that even before 2012 he was losing it, but I'll just focus post-2012. He did a shitty poor job of replacing Parise and Kovalchuk. His best attempt was a 41 year old Jagr, who did a tremendous job, but I don't think it was a safe bet he would have been as good as he was. He traded the 9th overall pick for a goalie who he allowed his head coach to sit for close to half the games, all so he could placate a washed up legend, who really didn't have much of anything left anymore, all because of who he USED TO BE and not what he then was. And I'm sure he participated in this placating himself and backed it. That's not even touching ''Matteau! Matteau! Matteau!'' in 2012.

And the 2014 draft was an embarrassment. So yeah, even if Lou wanted to blow it up, we could have just as easily failed with that, as you see the drafting that was happening in his later years. Luck would probably have it that we would have gotten one or two more good players just with more accumulated picks, but what we got with what we were working with was embarrassing.

 

[Nubmer6]

Have to wonder what our PP looks like under Brunette. It was a serious weak point the last while.

PP1 could be Jack, Bratt, Nico, Dougie and Palat/Mercer

PP2 could be Yegor, Holtz, Bastian/Wood, Severson and Mercer/Palat.

Lots of options, even without considering Haula/Boqvist for PP2.

Ya, there's tons of options for the PP. I think the only givens are Hamilton and Severson on PP 1 and 2.