Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[Diehard Devil]

At the deadline unless we're solidly in a playoff spot then we'll keep him as Fitz wont want to undercut the kids legit shot at a playoff spot. If we're a bubble team he's gone

That seems risky. Losing both Graves and Severson to free agency for nothing

What could we get for Severson before the season starts? We have a full right side anyway without him, don't we?

 

[NJDevs26]

If the Devils are looking for a big time winger next year than this season did not go well.

Or we know once and for all Bratt's outta here next offseason

 

[MauDevils]

That seems risky. Losing both Graves and Severson to free agency for nothing

What could we get for Severson before the season starts? We have a full right side anyway without him, don't we?

We wouldn't have a 2nd PP QB. He wouldn't be moved until the deadline.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That seems risky. Losing both Graves and Severson to free agency for nothing

What could we get for Severson before the season starts? We have a full right side anyway without him, don't we?

It isn’t that risky when you look at what we’ll have and have coming in. Hughes and Nemec will very likely be on the team and Bahl and Okhotiuk have shown well so far and it’s fair to think that at least one of them or both will show to be capable NHL defensmen. And then there’s Smith for depth and Mukhammadullin coming in as a dark horse to make the team or depth option. And those guys will just have to fill in behind Hamilton, Siegenthaler, and Marino.

Next season
LD:
Siegenthaler
Hughes
Okhotiuk
Bahl
Smith
Mukhammadullin?

RD:
Hamilton
Marino
Nemec



We also won’t trade Severson before the start of the season. Maybe at the deadline depending on where we are standings wise

 

[Rhodes 81]

If the Devils are looking for a big time winger next year than this season did not go well.

Or it went very well and we're looking to add one more piece to push us into a cup contender.

 

[JimEIV]

It isn’t that risky when you look at what we’ll have and have coming in. Hughes and Nemec will very likely be on the team and Bahl and Okhotiuk have shown well so far and it’s fair to think that at least one of them or both will show to be capable NHL defensmen. And then there’s Smith for depth and Mukhammadullin coming in as a dark horse to make the team or depth option. And those guys will just have to fill in behind Hamilton, Siegenthaler, and Marino.

Next season
LD:
Siegenthaler
Hughes
Okhotiuk
Bahl
Smith
Mukhammadullin?

RD:
Hamilton
Marino
Nemec



We also won’t trade Severson before the start of the season. Maybe at the deadline depending on where we are standings wise

I have high hopes for both Nemec and Luke...but it's going to take some time for these players to acclimate and gain experience. Ideally we would have stable partners for both of these guys while they gain their footing...but it's going to take some time and I kind of think that I'd like to Graves around a little longer... it would be suicide to roll with 3 rookie/ limited experienced Dmen in the lineup at one and I think that would hurt their growth.

 

[Diehard Devil]

It isn’t that risky when you look at what we’ll have and have coming in. Hughes and Nemec will very likely be on the team and Bahl and Okhotiuk have shown well so far and it’s fair to think that at least one of them or both will show to be capable NHL defensmen. And then there’s Smith for depth and Mukhammadullin coming in as a dark horse to make the team or depth option. And those guys will just have to fill in behind Hamilton, Siegenthaler, and Marino.

Next season
LD:
Siegenthaler
Hughes
Okhotiuk
Bahl
Smith
Mukhammadullin?

RD:
Hamilton
Marino
Nemec



We also won’t trade Severson before the start of the season. Maybe at the deadline depending on where we are standings wise

I meant more along the lines of not getting back any value for either of them. Risky was probably a bad choice of word for that

Losing Graves for free isnt a big deal idt, he wouldnt get a 1st probably. But Severson could and so idk how Id feel letting him walk for free too, just to lose in round 1 in a 5-6 game series (or barely miss the playoffs).

We arent quite good enough yet to be letting go two top-4 dmen for nothing coming back idt

I have high hopes for both Nemec and Luke...but it's going to take some time for these players to acclimate and gain experience. Ideally we would have stable partners for both of these guys while they gain their footing...but it's going to take some time and I kind of think that I'd like to Graves around a little longer... it would be suicide to roll with 3 rookie/ limited experienced Dmen in the lineup at one and I think that would hurt their growth.

With both being such high picks, Id guess one of them probably steps up quickly and proves their worth early on. The other might struggle a bit.

If I had to guess Luke probably struggles and Nemec will be more solid to start

 

[JimEIV]

I meant more along the lines of not getting back any value for either of them. Risky was probably a bad choice of word for that

Losing Graves for free isnt a big deal idt, he wouldnt get a 1st probably. But Severson could and so idk how Id feel letting him walk for free too, just to lose in round 1 in a 5-6 game series (or barely miss the playoffs).

We arent quite good enough yet to be letting go two top-4 dmen for nothing coming back idt


With both being such high picks, Id guess one of them probably steps up quickly and proves their worth early on. The other might struggle a bit.

If I had to guess Luke probably struggles and Nemec will be more solid to start

Even really good rookie Defensemen usually aren't very good defensemen.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I have high hopes for both Nemec and Luke...but it's going to take some time for these players to acclimate and gain experience. Ideally we would have stable partners for both of these guys while they gain their footing...but it's going to take some time and I kind of think that I'd like to Graves around a little longer... it would be suicide to roll with 3 rookie/ limited experienced Dmen in the lineup at one and I think that would hurt their growth.

If Graves isn’t better this season than he finished last season then Bahl and Okhotiuk could surpass him. It would not be suicide whatsoever if Nemec and Hughes are ready and Bahl or Okhotiuk plays well this season to show themselves as capable NHL dman. If Bahl or Okhotiuk walks into the next season with over 80 games as a solid NHL defensmen then I don’t see why there’s any reason to worry about having two highly talented and ready rookie dmen in the lineup.

 

[JimEIV]

If Graves isn’t better this season than he finished last season then Bahl and Okhotiuk could surpass him. It would not be suicide whatsoever if Nemec and Hughes are ready and Bahl or Okhotiuk plays well this season to show themselves as capable NHL dman. If Bahl or Okhotiuk walks into the next season with over 80 games as a solid NHL defensmen then I don’t see why there’s any reason to worry about having two highly talented and ready rookie dmen in the lineup.

Ryan Graves played 20:43 ATOI this season in 75 games.

Bahl played 15:45 for 17 games

Okhotyuk played 15:05 for 5 games

Butcher could look effective playing those minutes.


Those players are nowhere close to being able to play those kind of minutes over a prolonged period of time. Hell, we don't if Siegenthaler can do it effectively over the course of a full season.,.he hasn't before but at least he has shown he could over some time.

 

[Bleedred]

I modeled the 23-24 season with $8 million for Bratt, $5 million for Yegor, and $4 million for Blackwood, we end up with somewhere around $6-7 million to play with. Rather than fork it over to some over the hill winger I hope we hang onto to it and save it for a rental because good grief if we’re not a playoff team by then.

If we’re playing Blackwood $4 million next year then he needs to have the best season of his career. Anything less than that and no way he should get $4 million.

We’ve already committed to Vanecek for next year also, so it’s easy to trim the fat and just Samsonov Blackwood and if he sucks again and look elsewhere to tie that money up until goal.

Blackwood doesn’t really deserve $4 million at all. If he has a solid season I could probably justify giving $3 million (that’s still a raise) and only for one year. He’d need to have a really good and really healthy season to be worth $4 million.

If he plays even mediocre this year and we miss the playoffs, Fitz is really making a choice to die on the Blackwood hill if he brings him back.

He’s already covered the bases for Ruff with the Brunette hiring, so he really needs to watch his ass next offseason with Blackwood. Especially when his downfall is really a big part in what will hold the team back and why people like Bissonnette (who probably doesn’t even follow the goalie position and situation here) are tired of hearing about how bright a future we have. He’s certainly been a huge and glaring impediment to that the last two years and particularly last year.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Ryan Graves played 20:43 ATOI this season in 75 games.

Bahl played 15:45 for 17 games

Okhotyuk played 15:05 for 5 games

Those players are nowhere close to being able to play those kind of minutes over a prolonged period of time. He'll, we don't if Sirgenthaler can do it effectively over the course of a full season.,.he hasn't before but at least he has shown he could over some time.

You have no clue if they’re able or how close they are to being able to play those kinds of minutes. Just because they haven’t yet doesn’t mean they can’t. And lol Siegenthaler had extremely similar ice time over the course of 5 less games. And ice time is a terrible way of judging how good or effective a player is. Siegenthaler was much better than Graves. And look at where Siegenthaler was before this season. You say we don’t know if he can effectively do it over the course of a full season. He did it very effectively over the course of 70 games. Graves didn’t over the course of 75 games. How do we know Graves can over the course of a full season if he couldn’t this past season?


There is an actual possibility that Bahl and/or Okhotiuk are better players than Graves. If they play at a similar or better level to him next season than I would rather roll into next season with them than pay 4M or whatever to keep Graves around.

 

[Bleedred]

If Graves isn’t better this season than he finished last season then Bahl and Okhotiuk could surpass him. It would not be suicide whatsoever if Nemec and Hughes are ready and Bahl or Okhotiuk plays well this season to show themselves as capable NHL dman. If Bahl or Okhotiuk walks into the next season with over 80 games as a solid NHL defensmen then I don’t see why there’s any reason to worry about having two highly talented and ready rookie dmen in the lineup.

I think Graves was fine last year. He also scored at a rate better than I and I think a lot of us were expecting.

However, he’s kind of expendable moving forward and we need to move on, if not for salary cap reasons.

Think Brian Gionta in 2009 as the last really big example, unless you really wanna go David Clarkson or even Kyle Palmieri just a little over a year ago. I know Palmieri was a ghost his last season here, but he was already up there in age (a little older than Graves will be) and wasn’t gonna be worth his next contract.

It’s like this. Take a look around and imagine who wouldn’t be here right now if we gave Palmieri the deal Lou gave him. That’ll be where we’re at with Graves.

This is why you just can’t keep everybody and Graves falls under that category and even Severson likely does too. He’ll cost even more than Graves. Rightly so because he’s better.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I think Graves was fine last year. He also scored at a rate better than I and I think a lot of us were expecting.

However, he’s kind of expendable moving forward and we need to move on, if not for salary cap reasons.

Think Brian Gionta in 2009 as the last really big example, unless you really wanna go David Clarkson or even Kyle Palmieri just a little over a year ago. I know Palmieri was a ghost his last season here, but he was already up there in age (a little older than Graves will be) and wasn’t gonna be worth his next contract.

It’s like this. Take a look around and imagine who wouldn’t be here right now if we gave Palmieri the deal Lou gave him. That’ll be where we’re at with Graves.

This is why you just can’t keep everybody and Graves falls under that category and even Severson likely does too.

Graves was good to start the season but wasn’t good enough at all towards the end. And yes he’s expendable especially if Bahl and/ or Okhotiuk out perform him as they did in their end of season stints.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Graves was paired with a healthy Dougie to start the season, no kidding he looked good next to him.

I like Graves but he’s expendable with our crop of D coming up.

 

[Bleedred]

Graves was good to start the season but wasn’t good enough at all towards the end. And yes he’s expendable especially if Bahl and/ or Okhotiuk out perform him as they did in their end of season stints.

Either way, I just see him as a guy that’s priced out of his next deal here.

I thought Bahl was terrible until his last call up, where he was actually very good. And O was exceptionally good, but only played a few games.

So I know it’s risky giving either a permanent spot on the roster for opening night, but I will say I think I wanted to see more of them than Brendan Smith.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Either way, I just see him as a guy that’s priced out of his next deal here.

I thought Bahl was terrible until his last call up, where he was actually very good. And O was exceptionally good, but only played a few games.

So I know it’s risky giving either a permanent spot on the roster for opening night, but I will say I think I wanted to see more of them than Brendan Smith.

Nobody’s giving them a permanent spot on the roster. The 2 of them as well as Smith should be fighting for a spot in the lineup every night. Don’t see much risk in that

 

[Diehard Devil]

Graves was paired with a healthy Dougie to start the season, no kidding he looked good next to him.

I like Graves but he’s expendable with our crop of D coming up.

I agree both Severson and Graves are expendable

Just not so expendable that we get no assets for both. We arent exactly contending yet

 

[Eggtimer]

If the Devils are looking for a big time winger next year than this season did not go well.

Not necessarily. Can still have a good season and want to round out the roster like you had envisioned.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I know I’m letting my balls hanging out to be kicked very hard, but I’m excited for the season to start. Baseball can only take a fan so far.

 

[njdevils1982]

I have high hopes for both Nemec and Luke...but it's going to take some time for these players to acclimate and gain experience. Ideally we would have stable partners for both of these guys while they gain their footing...but it's going to take some time and I kind of think that I'd like to Graves around a little longer... it would be suicide to roll with 3 rookie/ limited experienced Dmen in the lineup at one and I think that would hurt their growth.

high hopes....im there





...sure ....it no silent lucidity

 

[JimEIV]

high hopes....im there

I'm listening to Wish you were here now ...Shine on you crazy Diamond

It helps me fall asleep.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm listening to Wish you were here now ...Shine on you crazy Diamond

It helps me fall asleep.

Listen to David Gilmour’s acoustic version on your drive tomorrow.

 

[BurntToast]

1) I think Severson is the best dump option.

You can trade him as a camp dump and still get a decent return. It might be wise to see how training camp goes. His value could go up significantly.

2) I know they signed Wood but are we even sure he is good enough to play at this point? He played two games and was shut down again. He might end up on LTIR after a couple preseason games.

It might be more telling when we see who is invited to camp.

3) Whats up will the Hockey Canada Investigation? For all we know the NHL may allow the Devils to terminate McLeods contract.

 

[Triumph]

I think it's really unlikely that Bahl or Okhotiuk is ever better than Graves. Graves has an offensive dimension to his game that those two do not have and are unlikely to develop, That said, I don't know why we're talking about them 'replacing' Graves - Luke Hughes would replace Graves's ES minutes and one of Bahl/Okhotiuk would replace his PK minutes.