Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[Darkauron]

So you want to restrict freedom of speech? You want sheeple discourse where everyone is in agreement?

Nice leaning buzzwords.

 

[Devil made me do it]

Why are we allowing Don Cherry to have an HFBoards account.


You are right it isnt racist. Its just prejudice against an entire continent due to out dated thoughts that no sane NHL fan would think

I go by statistics and the general trend of the talent pool that flows into the NHL from Euro countries.
I also see how Stanley Cup winning teams, every single year, are typically composed in whole with toughness and less with finesse. I want my team to win multiple cups and I see the formula that it takes to achieve that. And that formula doesn't include the majority of team made of soft euros.

 

[Devils Trap]

I go by statistics and the general trend of the talent pool that flows into the NHL from Euro countries.
I also see how Stanley Cup winning teams, every single year, are typically composed in whole with toughness and less with finesse. I want my team to win multiple cups and I see the formula that it takes to achieve that. And tgat gormuka doesn't include the majority of team made of soft euros.

Okay Mr Stats guy - Show me the stats that show all Euros are soft then ??

 

[Saugus]

So you want to restrict freedom of speech? You want sheeple discourse where everyone is in agreement?

You're allowed to have your opinion. The rest of us are allowed to think your opinion is wrongheaded and out of date, and tell you as much.

 

[Marioesque]

The best forward in franchise history is a Euro. Florida’s best center is a euro as is their best dman. As is Dallas’ best dman. What are you blathering about?

Yeah for Dallas the top 2 D in the playoffs are euro, #1 C as well. Shesterkin has been the best ranger. Florida has a bunch of Finnish centers.

 

[Guadana]

I'm not downplaying anything. Reading some of your comments, it seems every prospect coming out of Russia is an all star.
Fact of the matter is that Russian players and Euro players in general, this generation I am speaking of, are SOFT. The real hockey talent, the type which takes you deep into the playoffs, continues to come from North America.
Speaking of Russian prospects, the complexity of the KHL transfers and the never forgotten backstabbing Kovalchuk ordeal has changed my opinion in drafting Russian players. Too much of a risk and for what, to draft softies??

Sorry, but its not true. Im one of the biggest anti-apologists of Silayev.

Other than that I have very strong record. About usa players - I was one of the earliest who said that Gauthier is top-5-top-6 player on the draft. About Slovakian players - I named Nemec as potential best option for pick from the beggining and named Slafkovsky as number one on the draft way before the hype and Pronman. About swedish players - I had Edvinsson as top-5 pick when everybody saw him as 10-20 pick. About Canadien players - I hyped Mercer and had him as a second third option for 7th pick and was the only one on this board who call him better prospects than Holtz after the draft, may be with one or two other people. About Norwegians - I have Nygard as a 6-8th on my list. And about Russian players too - I said about Yurov as potential center way before the draft because of his skills and now he is center as 20 yo on champion club. And many many other players as examples from different countries.

What do I know about you? Nothing and I dont need to. Because you are random guy who saw Russian poster, couple of good words about Russian player and no matter how they are actually right(they are, because its just a fact of the trade), you decided to vocal your very strong and meaningful opinion.

Part of Russians and Euros who are soft is fun. Thanks for making me a favor.

 

[Devils Trap]

Genuine Question, would you prefer Tyler Seguin or Nikita Kucherov for 9 Million AAV per season !?

Just curious

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

why is pasta and ovi still here ??? get them outta here asap

getting beyond ridioulous here ... we´re getting from best center depth in devils history to no top6 at all and yeah the team is soft, but thats no on the players, just saying ...

having 2 smaller centers on both top lines creates some problems itself. they get targeted left and right. we should be careful especially with jack. you dont want this to become a josh norris type thing.

and thats why our top6 signing has to be capable of playing quality center minutes. give our new coach some options. i am in strong believe that you will achieve better overall results with jack playing wing and if one of hischier/hughes or stephenson go down ...

someone mentioned bennett, if he becomes available, he should be nr. 1 target. probably depends if florida wants to keep their d together. they cant sign reinhardt and montour together

Surely you can show me some Devils teams that had better center depth than this team does, since it’s such a ridiculous comment. A second place Selke ~point per game guy paired with a 43 goal 99 point guy. The depth is already fine, let alone what it could look like after the offseason or trade deadline.

If Nico is small, so was Elias, considering they’re the same size.

 

[devilsfan950003]

Is it too late to send former Leafs assistant GM Bill Watters a thank you for passing on Petr Sykora for his son's classmate Jeff Ware?

I remember that draft. Sykora dropped and Lou pounced. He was considered a steal at 18th overall.

 

[Saugus]

I go by statistics and the general trend of the talent pool that flows into the NHL from Euro countries.
I also see how Stanley Cup winning teams, every single year, are typically composed in whole with toughness and less with finesse. I want my team to win multiple cups and I see the formula that it takes to achieve that. And that formula doesn't include the majority of team made of soft euros.

That's why I've never been a fan of analytics. You don't construct a roster based on some computer algorythm. It's beyond dumb and why teams that do so continue to fail.

The old Lou model is eternal and continues to be successful to this day. Team fit with a blend of toughness. The perfect formula.

I'm having trouble squaring these two comments with each other.

What else are algorithms and analytics but applied statistics?

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I go by statistics and the general trend of the talent pool that flows into the NHL from Euro countries.
I also see how Stanley Cup winning teams, every single year, are typically composed in whole with toughness and less with finesse. I want my team to win multiple cups and I see the formula that it takes to achieve that. And that formula doesn't include the majority of team made of soft euros.

And yet you dodged all the examples where European players have been core players on Stanley Cup winning teams. I mean, many have mentioned Kucherov, Hedman and Ovechkin, but you can add Rantanen and many other guys to the list. The Avs also have Artturi Lehkonen and Nichushkin, and the Stars have Lindell and Hakanpää. I wouldn't call them soft players.

 

[Devil made me do it]

Sorry, but its not true. Im one of the biggest anti-apologists of Silayev.

Other than that I have very strong record. About usa players - I was one of the earliest who said that he is top-5-top-6 player on the draf. About Slovakian players - I named Nemec as potential best option for pick from the beggining and named Slafkovsky as number one on the draft way before the hype and Pronman. About swedish olayers - I had Edvinsson as top-5 pick when everybody saw him as 10-20 pick. About Canadien players - I hyped Mercer and had him as a second third option for 7th pick. About Norwegians - I have Nygard as a 6-8th on my list. And about Russian players too - I said about Yurov as potential center way before the draft because of his skills and now he is center as 20 yo on champion club. ANd many many other players as examples from different countries.

What do I know about you? Nothing and I dont need to. Because you are random guy who saw Russian poster, couple of good words about Russian player and no matter how they are actually right(they are, because its just a fact of the trade), you decided to vocal your very strong and meaningful opinion.

Part of Russians and Euros who are soft is fun. Thanks for making me a favor. You can go watch CNN or whatever you are watching.

I hate politics btw so if you think I have some anti-russian agenda from watching news media, that's not it.
I can't trust russian talents to come over to North America when they are tied up to their KHL deals. Having to wait several years for a player to come join your team? What kind of ridiculousness is that?
Besides, russians are just soft. How many tough russian defensemen or wingers can you name in the NHL for the past decade?

I'm having trouble squaring these two comments with each other.

What else are algorithms and analytics but applied statistics?

Statistics is any percentage outcome of success, not detailed analytics.
You really are grasping for straws. Good luck.

 

[forceten]

I'm not downplaying anything. Reading some of your comments, it seems every prospect coming out of Russia is an all star.
Fact of the matter is that Russian players and Euro players in general, this generation I am speaking of, are SOFT. The real hockey talent, the type which takes you deep into the playoffs, continues to come from North America.
Speaking of Russian prospects, the complexity of the KHL transfers and the never forgotten backstabbing Kovalchuk ordeal has changed my opinion in drafting Russian players. Too much of a risk and for what, to draft softies??

Have you considered the fact that -- I don't know, I'm spitballing here -- he actually watches these prospects in Europe regularly, including leagues that get limited scouting here like the VHL, MHL, and junior leagues in Sweden, Finland, etc.?

Stop being a nincompoop. Our own draft writers on this side of the pond talk up a lot of players too, but I don't hear you criticizing eventd, STI, and the others for being too pro-Canadian or pro-American.

 

[Brodeur]

I remember that draft. Sykora dropped and Lou pounced. He was considered a steal at 18th overall.

That was my first NHL draft, so that one was burned into my memory. I was out of the country when it happened, so I had my buddy tape it for me for when I got back. Definitely funny looking back at it how life was before the Internet. Vancouver traded for Alexander Mogilny at the draft and I didn't know about it until I popped in that VHS.

We got pretty lucky with Sykora, he hurt his shoulder that season which scared off some teams. Sykora put up decent numbers in the IHL, but teams suddenly got skeptical after Radek Bonk struggled as an NHL rookie in 1994-95. Bonk had 11 points in 42 NHL games after having 87 points in 76 IHL games.

In particular I remember the Leafs passing on Sykora in favor of Ware. Trying to remember what the connection was, but I think Leafs assistant GM Bill Watters knew the Ware family, so he personally vouched for him.

Somebody posted that draft on YouTube, so it's a fun retroactive watch. The thing I learned a few years back was that the 1994 Pacific Cup (the equivalent of the Hlinka Gretzky Cup nowadays) was hosted by Mexico City. I laughed a few times when the commentators would say something deadpan like "he had a tough season but looked great in Mexico."

 

[forceten]

So you want to restrict freedom of speech? You want sheeple discourse where everyone is in agreement?

For someone wrapping him/herself in the flag, you don't know much about the first amendment to the U.S. constitution. You have freedom of speech in the sense that the government cannot make laws to restrict your speech. This is a private message board, so the 1st does not apply. Secondly, even with free speech, you are not protected from the consequences of your speech. If you stand outside and shout like an idiot, yes, it's your right to do so, and it's our right to call you out for it.

I go by statistics and the general trend of the talent pool that flows into the NHL from Euro countries.
I also see how Stanley Cup winning teams, every single year, are typically composed in whole with toughness and less with finesse. I want my team to win multiple cups and I see the formula that it takes to achieve that. And that formula doesn't include the majority of team made of soft euros.

"I go by statistics" says the guy who "hates analytics". The jokes write themselves. You're going to put My3Sons out of a job if you keep carrying on like this.

 

[Saugus]

Statistics is any percentage outcome of success, not detailed analytics.
You really are grasping for straws. Good luck.

I'm an actual data scientist. You're attempting to explain some imaginary distinction between statistics and analytics to someone who does this for a living.

 

[Devil made me do it]

Have you considered the fact that -- I don't know, I'm spitballing here -- he actually watches these prospects in Europe regularly, including leagues that get limited scouting here like the VHL, MHL, and junior leagues in Sweden, Finland, etc.?

Stop being a nincompoop. Our own draft writers on this side of the pond talk up a lot of players too, but I don't hear you criticizing eventd, STI, and the others for being too pro-Canadian or pro-American.

Oh, I've called out that finnish poster who kept hyping up Kakko pre-post draft. I am not biassed to one specific nationality.

I'm an actual data scientist. You're attempting to explain some imaginary distinction between statistics and analytics to someone who does this for a living.

That's why Fitzgerald hasn't cracked that success code yet, because he keeps guys like you around his staff.

 

[Guadana]

I hate politics btw so if you think I have some anti-russian agenda from watching news media, that's not it.
I can't trust russian talents to come over to North America when they are tied up to their KHL deals.

Every year players from Russia joining teams in NHL. Year after year amount of Russian players are going bigger and bigger.

Having to wait several years for a player to come join your team? What kind of ridiculousness is that?

Yeah. Freaking russian prospects McCarthy, Schleine, Kerfoot. Edwards is looking like typical Russian who will going to be free agent. Same as Fox, Wheeler and other players on other teams. Cutter Gauthier is typical Russian who forced the trade by manipulating with his status. Its too bad that they are this type of Russians who become free agent in certain circumstances. Some part of Russian prospects will never be free agents until they will sign NHL deal. You know - who are actually Russians and playing in KHL/VHL/MHL.

Besides, russians are just soft. How many tough russian defensemen or wingers can you name in the NHL for the past decade?

Many. Im lazy to make a deep dive. Its not me who didnt make home work. You called me only pro-russian propagandist. I dont know what kind of anti Russian agenda you have - political or social, it will not make any change. Even if I will name you a lot of names.

BTW speeking of homework, if we are talking about this draft I recommend you to watch shift by shift videos on youtube with game of
NA players Catton, Sennecke, Eiserman and Iginla
and Euro/Russian players Nygard, Helenius and Chernyshov
This players are projecting to be available for our pick. At least most of them. You can train your eye and decide by yourself who are more soft. And who are less soft.

 

[Devil made me do it]

For someone wrapping him/herself in the flag, you don't know much about the first amendment to the U.S. constitution. You have freedom of speech in the sense that the government cannot make laws to restrict your speech. This is a private message board, so the 1st does not apply. Secondly, even with free speech, you are not protected from the consequences of your speech. If you stand outside and shout like an idiot, yes, it's your right to do so, and it's our right to call you out for it.



"I go by statistics" says the guy who "hates analytics". The jokes write themselves. You're going to put My3Sons out of a job if you keep carrying on like this.

Statistics as in overall success based on team makeup. Not detailed analytics. Don't get it twisted.

 

[minibrodeur]

Do more hard nosed type players come from North America? Possibly, does that mean euro players are soft? Far from it, there are plenty of players that have been extremely effective that I would never consider soft players. I look at the Barkovs (not physical but wins every board battle), Zadorovs, Nichushkins, Trenins, Orlovs, Svechnikovs, Palats, Landeskogs. There's plenty.

 

[Devil made me do it]

I dont know what kind of anti Russian agenda you have - political or social, it will not make any change. Even I will name you a lot of names.

Bossman, one of my brothers is married to a russian. No anti-russian agenda here.
Just not a fan of players coming out of your country for reasons I already listed.
I am happy that you as a Russian roots for the Devils. I just am not a fan of russians joining my team because they are soft and take forever to make the jump over to the NHL. Too much risk involved and I like certainty.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Oh My!

 

[Guadana]

Bossman, one of my brothers is married to a russian. No anti-russian agenda here.
Just not a fan of players coming out of your country for reasons I already listed.
I am happy that you as a Russian roots for the Devils. I just am not a fan of russians joining my team because they are soft and take forever to make the jump over to the NHL. Too much risk involved and I like certainty.

If you dont like Russian players for a reason when literally Kucherov Tarasenko Ovechkin Nichushkin are tough to play against and literally every winning team had impactful Russian on the roster - its your right but it based on false. Most of NA prospects are playing against kids, most of Russians and Euros are playing against men. Jack, Luke, Mercer are WAAAAAAAAY more softy than Nico or Simon.
And you said literally in my face that Im hyping every Russian when I dont and in actual circumstances Im hyping russian player Misha Nygardov(he is norwegian and his name is Michael Brandsegg Nygard) all over again everywhere. This is called insinuation. Intentional or accidental.

 

[bossram]

DeBrusk is my #1 choice. He also is a great penalty killer

He has great underlying numbers at ES too.

I don’t really want to pay 40 point guy Debrusk 6M a year

He’s on the younger side which is a point in his favor so at least you’re getting less past his prime years but palat with less playoff heroics doesn’t excite me

He's quite a bit better than that Palat is at this point. Palat was a bad signing at the time. And I said it then too, to the vitriol of many here.

Debrusk has an ES P/60 of 1.93 the last two seasons, which is pretty much exactly the same as Brad Marchand in that time. Is Brad Marchand a top-six forward?

People can't really see past raw production in their evaluation of players. If you're not on PP1 or getting 1st line ES minutes, your numbers will be depressed. If Debrusk is put next to Jack, his raw production will blow up.

Over the last 3 playoffs, Debrusk has 21 points in 27 playoff games.

45-50 point players are easily worth $6m/year nowadays...especially with the cap going up.

Yeah. The kind of standard UFA price for a passable top-six forward was $5M in the past. With the cap going up, that number is also going to go up.

And the narrative factor here: Debrusk plays well in the playoffs.

really no thx to both ...

debrusk is disappearing half of the season and wasnt even in the bruins top six half the time when they had problems generating offense. proj. 5yrs/5,8M ; stephenson C/LW proj. 5yrs/5,6M

makes no sense to me sign pure wingers especialyly not for our top6.
foote/holtz/mckermitt/palat and haula are enough wingers for bottom6 lazar can play

foegele cant even produce while playing with draisaitl and is a problem for edm bottom6,
another pure winger that is proj. 3yrs./3,9M. sounds like a waste of cap space to me
i rather take stenlund C/RW proj. 2yrs/1,3M

or sign nosek again, coming out of a bruins system for 1M was a good signing to me, well the injury ...

next forward prospects that could make the jump to big club after this season are pure wingers too

Stephenson had a terrible season. His play-driving numbers tanked, he became untrusted by Vegas, and they basically discarded him and already brought his replacement.

Like I said above, Debrusk's rate scoring is pretty good. With more opportunity, his raw production will also go up. You're not gonna put up massive numbers without PP1 time, that's how the NHL is.

Foegele had 20 goals/40 points with solid playdriving metrics. Critically, he is good at forechecking, which the club needs. He produced pretty well with Draisaitl, not so much away from him. He didn't play exclusively with Drai, if that's what you think. Again, a guy I think there is more to unlock.

Kevin Stenlund is a pure 4C. He is not a candidate to play in the top-nine.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Speaking of Jack Hughes, our generationally talent star, kid is always hurt. Every season. Made of glass. And I love the kid but what good is he if he can't be on the ice?
It puzzles me how the training staff haven't demanded him put up muscle since he was drafted. A big failure from the organization.

Yea I’m sure they’re not addressing it and you’re the only person on earth who thought of this.