Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[bossram]

Life does not end at 32. I don't understand the infatuation with not committing to players 30+ (not implying it's just you). IMO, these players will help you develop younger players who will eventually fill that role and maybe contribute further up in the lineup. Part of what makes Nico's first season (2017-2018) amazing is that he played 1C for most of it with very little center support (outside of Coleman and maybe Zajac). He doubled their counting totals.

I don't even understand what you're arguing.

No, players don't disappear after age 30 or whatever. But if you're signing a guy into his 30s, you need some kind of projection for how you think he'll perform as he ages.

And what I was saying about Haula wasn't really to do with his age. My argument was that if Fitz was retaining Haula, it should have been with the expectation he can play center.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Gourde would actually be pretty appealing. Just one year left on the deal. A bit pricey, but not bad if you pay for some retention. He’s #small but plays hard and has plenty of playoff experience. Don’t know what Seattle’s plans are though.

He never played with Palat in TB but that would be a fun/nasty duo for the playoffs

 

[Guadana]

Young meaning below age 30? To be honest, I can't think of any that are cost controlled. Nicolas Roy/Connor McMichael are not going anywhere. If not Cirelli, Gourde would be nice (he's 32).

I dont know actually, Fitz is always making surprising deals. Who knows. May be he will fix his f*ckeduping on the draft with Holtz and his f*ckeduping with development of Holtz.

Gourde would be nice but he is one season option.

 

[MadDevil]

Any interest in Sam Bennett as a possible temp solution for #3 center if Florida moves him? We could use an asshole on this team.

 

[Devils Trap]

Any interest in Sam Bennett as a possible temp solution for #3 center if Florida moves him? We could use an asshole on this team.

My #1 target for C if available. He’s a tough f***ed who is super talented

 

[SansaStark]

It’s the best center depth in franchise history by a wide margin, in fact.

Also LOL at the laughable suggestion that they couldn’t compete with the Rangers when they LITERALLY OUSTED THEM LAST YEAR when healthy. What planet are you on?

the only reason we beat the rangers was because the team defense and goaltending was strong. And it still took seven games. That was a far weaker ranger team than this year and then they got destroy by Carolina. Then they got destroyed this whole year. The center depth organizationally is weak and the roster center depth is weak.

Haula is a nothing, this year he lost a step and he didn’t even play center at times when there was ample need for one. He’ll lose another step next year more than likely.
Nico is a real center. That’s it.

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

the only reason we beat the rangers was because the team defense and goaltending was strong. And it still took seven games. That was a far weaker ranger team than this year and then they got destroy by Carolina. Then they got destroyed this whole year. The center depth organizationally is weak and the roster center depth is weak.

Haula is a nothing, this year he lost a step and he didn’t even play center at times when there was ample need for one. He’ll lose another step next year more than likely.
Nico is a real center. That’s it.

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

do you know how many teams would kill to have the 1C/2C that the Devils have?

 

[Guadana]

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

Crosby wasnt the player everybody thought he was, Malkin wasnt the player everybody thought he was, until pens found Kessel, Hornqvist and Guentzel for them.

 

[Call Me Al]

the only reason we beat the rangers was because the team defense and goaltending was strong. And it still took seven games. That was a far weaker ranger team than this year and then they got destroy by Carolina. Then they got destroyed this whole year. The center depth organizationally is weak and the roster center depth is weak.

Haula is a nothing, this year he lost a step and he didn’t even play center at times when there was ample need for one. He’ll lose another step next year more than likely.
Nico is a real center. That’s it.

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

jack scored 99 points last year. what on earth are you talking about? we want a winger for him because we’d like to complement his abilities. it’s not that you need a superstar to drive his line - you want someone who can be a little physical and pot some goals next to him. maybe take face offs if he doesn’t improve there.

don’t talk about carolina last year - they had an emotional hangover from a series where they went down 0-2 against their rivals and fought back and won in 7 games on home ice in many of their first taste of the playoffs then had to turnaround and play every other day for 2 weeks with no break.

injuries and bad goaltending and coaching killed them this year. i’m sick of these “everything sucks” posts that have no critical thinking

 

[MartyOwns]

the only reason we beat the rangers was because the team defense and goaltending was strong. And it still took seven games. That was a far weaker ranger team than this year and then they got destroy by Carolina. Then they got destroyed this whole year. The center depth organizationally is weak and the roster center depth is weak.

Haula is a nothing, this year he lost a step and he didn’t even play center at times when there was ample need for one. He’ll lose another step next year more than likely.
Nico is a real center. That’s it.

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

jack paced for 97 points this season, 104 last season and 94 points the year before (at age 20). he is absolutely a franchise center; the only thing you can complain about is his being prone to injury.

your posts are going to be great entertainment fodder in a few years, just ask jim how that works.

 

[Forge]

Any interest in Sam Bennett as a possible temp solution for #3 center if Florida moves him? We could use an asshole on this team.

He doesn't even need to play center. Just bring him over

 

[Billdo]

jack paced for 97 points this season, 104 last season and 94 points the year before (at age 20). he is absolutely a franchise center; the only thing you can complain about is his being prone to injury.

your posts are going to be great entertainment fodder in a few years, just ask jim how that works.

View attachment 877597

Pacing is great but until he's able to not get hurt it's going to be a problem. He is however a bonafide superstar the likes this team hasn't had in a VERY long time, if ever.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

the only reason we beat the rangers was because the team defense and goaltending was strong. And it still took seven games. That was a far weaker ranger team than this year and then they got destroy by Carolina. Then they got destroyed this whole year. The center depth organizationally is weak and the roster center depth is weak.

Haula is a nothing, this year he lost a step and he didn’t even play center at times when there was ample need for one. He’ll lose another step next year more than likely.
Nico is a real center. That’s it.

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

Jack Hughes, the most talented player in franchise history, who will shatter every single record we have, isn’t a franchise center. Right. You should be slapped in the face for your disrespect of this player. Shame.

Nothing you’re saying makes any sense. Haula is a perfectly fine 3C. He had 16 goals 35 points with excellent D metrics. Florida’s 3C Lundell had 35 points. Rangers 3C is Wennberg who had 30 points.

 

[Triumph]

The Devils aren't going to realistically spend big on a 3C, I don't think. It is really a shame that Dawson Mercer isn't at least decent there, because otherwise I wouldn't care - they do need someone who can step in and at least not destroy the team when Hughes or Hischier are out, but things like Cirelli or Bennett are pipe dreams, IMO. Just not realistic.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Bratt finished 8th in Lady Byng voting

 

[Goptor]

The Devils aren't going to realistically spend big on a 3C, I don't think. It is really a shame that Dawson Mercer isn't at least decent there, because otherwise I wouldn't care - they do need someone who can step in and at least not destroy the team when Hughes or Hischier are out, but things like Cirelli or Bennett are pipe dreams, IMO. Just not realistic.

$7mil is on the high side.

 

[bossram]

the only reason we beat the rangers was because the team defense and goaltending was strong. And it still took seven games. That was a far weaker ranger team than this year and then they got destroy by Carolina. Then they got destroyed this whole year. The center depth organizationally is weak and the roster center depth is weak.

Haula is a nothing, this year he lost a step and he didn’t even play center at times when there was ample need for one. He’ll lose another step next year more than likely.
Nico is a real center. That’s it.

If you think getting a winger for Jack is a priority than Jack isn’t what you think he is. Franchise centers make wingers, they don’t need the team to find them a winger to make his line work. And if he ain’t a franchise center then we ain’t winning a cup anytime soon. We don’t have the goalie, the depth or defensive structure to make up for that. Hopefully Sheldon & Fitz can help in those areas.

Take a look at the franchise centers in the league and look at the wingers they typically play with. They are far from scrubs. You want to get the best of a franchise center? He needs a running mate:

Crosby - Guentzel (until the trade obviously)
Mackinnon - Rantanen
McDavid - Hyman (and Draisaitl half the time, otherwise he gets RNH on this line, not too bad)
Barkov - Reinhart
Matthews - Marner (most of the time)
Eichel - Marchessault
Point - Kucherov

And the next tier of guys down, they still play with talented/very good linemates:
Hintz - Robertson
Zibanejad - Kreider/Trochek - Panarin
Aho - Svechnikov (or Jarvis)
Kopitar - Kempe
ROR - Forsberg
Thomas - Buchnevich (and/or Kyrou)
Scheifele - Connor
Horvat - Barzal (converted to wing so they'd have a competent top line)

No half-decent team throws out their top center with scrubs and expects them to be otherworldly.

If the team doesn't have the necessary center depth because Haula or Mercer can't be a 3C, that's on Fitz. He shouldn't have re-signed Haula if he can't be a 3C. It's not because Jack isn't a legit center or whatever.

 

[Guttersniped]

No one can predict the future. But you need to make some assumptions/projections when evaluating and signing players. Otherwise you literally have no idea how to proceed. Might as well be making random offers.

If you give Haula $3+M into his mid 30s, part of the value there is that you expect he can play center. If he can't, they should not have offered him that much.

He played center. He took the 2nd most face-off on this team two years in a row. And he can be a 3C if we need him to.

We spent 3.15m on an incredibly useful player. He’s had solid underlying numbers and his production didn’t go down.

Unless he suddenly starts to aggressively decline next year, Haula should still be an excellent value. It’s not like we have much depth at forward and C/W who can actually play center are the best depth to have.

I get not liking the Palat deal, or even the Shara/Toffoli deal, but I don’t see the downside with Haula. We aren’t missing out on some amazing solution at 3C because we have Haula.

Very few centers make the UFA market, and when they do they get overpaid, often with a good amount of term.

The guys people are naming are projected to make bank. And even if Fitz wanted them, they can say no or demand more than we can or want to pay.

From the Atheletic, using the Evolving Hockey model, which is typically pretty on the nose:

#8 Duchene 33-35
Contract Projection: 3 years/ 7.046m

#13 Stephenson 30-33
Contract Projection: 4 years/ 6.112m

#30 Henrique 34-36
Contract Projection: 3 years/ 4.752m

#34 Wennberg 29-31
Contract Projection: 3 years/ 4.395m

Edit: Holy shit, that grammar. Proof-reading is for the weak lol.

 

[bossram]

He played center. He took the 2nd most face-off on this two years in a row. And he can be a 3C if needed to.

We spent 3.15m on an incredibly useful player. He had solid underlying numbers and his production didn’t go down.

Unless he suddenly starts to aggressively decline next year, Haula should still be an excellent value. It’s not like we have much depth at forward and C/W who can actually play center are the best depth to have.

I obviously see not liking the Palat deal, and the Shara/Toffoli deal, but I dot see the downside with Haula. We aren’t missing out on some amazing solution at 3C because we have Haula.

Very few centers make the UFA market they get a lot with a good amount of term.

The guys people are naming are projected to make bank. And even if Fitz wanted them, they can say no or demand more than we can or want to pay.

From the Atheletic using the Evolving Hockey model which is usually pretty on the nose:

#8 Duchene 33-35
Contract Projection: 3 years/ 7.046m

#13 Stephenson 30-33
Contract Projection: 4 years/ 6.112m

#30 Henrique 34-36
Contract Projection: 3 years/ 4.752m

#34 Wennberg 29-31
Contract Projection: 3 years/ 4.395m

I agree with you. I think Haula is fine at 3C and should be the 3C next season.

I am arguing against the people saying that the Devils have no center depth and Haula can't play center.

I've said in other posts too, the UFA center market is horrible. There really aren't better options.

 

[Guttersniped]

I agree with you. I think Haula is fine at 3C and should be the 3C next season.

I am arguing against the people saying that the Devils have no center depth and Haula can't play center.

I've said in other posts too, the UFA center market is horrible. There really aren't better options.

Well I misread that and I was very determined to argue with you lol.

jack paced for 97 points this season, 104 last season and 94 points the year before (at age 20). he is absolutely a franchise center; the only thing you can complain about is his being prone to injury.

your posts are going to be great entertainment fodder in a few years, just ask jim how that works.

I love this gif.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Haula definitely can be the 3C, but then they really need to go get at least one winger for Jack as that's a really naked line

 

[My3Sons]

Well I misread that and I was very determined to argue with you lol.


View attachment 877749



I love this gif.

You should argue with him. Haula at 3C?

 

[Nubmer6]

I am arguing against the people saying that the Devils have no center depth and Haula can't play center.

Haula can definitely play center, but I also feel like we have no center depth. If Jack or Nico go down, I'm ok with Haula at 2c as a stopgap, but then there's no one I trust to step into the 3c role.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Haula can definitely play center, but I also feel like we have no center depth. If Jack or Nico go down, I'm ok with Haula at 2c as a stopgap, but then there's no one I trust to step into the 3c role.

To me having no center depth is not having a 1C or 2C, or even a 3C. We have a 1A and 1B plus a decent 3C. It’s always nice to have even more, but that’s just a far cry from no depth. Organizationally I’d say we have shit depth at C in the prospect pool, however.

 

[Devil made me do it]

Mercer is 7OA level talent. Mukhamadullin is ~10-20OA level talent, he was main piece in the trade of Meier. One of the best players who was traded. Its not like SJ wanted our late 1st/2nd round picks, and its not like we were the only team who wanted to trade for Meier.

Holtz... he still can score on NHL level. At least in minor role. All of his per minutes stats are bullsh1t but even scoring in the minor role is role. May be he will develop his game more and will become middle six scoring winger, may be he will develop his game better and will become complimentary scoring winger. Will see. Of course for now we dont know what we have in him, he is very raw, he needs to polish a lot of his aspects of the game, but overall it was on the draft. Fitz should learn from that. We literally have a couple of candidates like especially Eiserman and less problematic but still very raw Sennecke whose potential and overall shape exist in the theory and minds of fans.
Does Holtz worth 18-20OA pick now? yeah, I guess. May be not the best outcome, but still very good.

You seriously overhype russian prospects.