Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Jack getting significantly injured is going to kill any season regardless of the depth we try to bring in at C. That just needs to not happen. We also had a problem with right handed dmen last year when Dougie went down and absolutely do not need a right handed dman — the depth is fine there. Dougie is also a guy depth is just not going to replace.

Sure, we could use a guy that can play center. If we added an actual impact player at C then we’d have the best center depth in the NHL. That would be nice, but is that the standard? 2 franchise Cs, a decent 3C, and an okay 4C in Nosek (if he’s brought back) plus Lazar that can play 4C is really a big problem? Seems like we’re checking most of the boxes already.

The elephant in the room is Jack needs to prove he can stay healthy for a full year before we have this discussion. Even the 22-23 year, he missed some time with something that made him miss the 100 point plateau. It's an uneasy conversation, I get it, I don't want to talk about Jack being a piece of glass either. But until he proves it, people are going to want a center that's capable to step in on a moment's notice. I said the Duchene thing the other day, he'd fit the team profile and everything the Devils want but I doubt he moves from the US South considering he's been on record saying he loves playing in that area.

I’m comfortable with Mercer sliding into C in a pinch if there are injuries. Bratt can drive play like a center and has done well with Mercer at C before.

Of course I would love to add someone like Cirelli if he was available to really bolster the depth. But there’s basically nothing out there in free agency that is appealing beyond some 4th line guys.

I remember the days of praying for a franchise center — now we have two.

Cirelli would be a decent pick up, he reminds me of Zajac a ton. Won't wow you offensively a ton but will do everything you need a center ice man to do and he's pretty good defensively from what I can remember metrics wise. Unless Tampa Bay makes one last run at Stamkos, I can't see him being an option.

 

[Guttersniped]

Id kick the tires on Roslovic

If he can come on a good contract, I would like that added C depth for bottom 6.

6’1” 200 lb depth center who can skate and pot some goals, also can PK. Also a right shot which is always nice.

The problem with that is if you don’t like Mercer at center, you really won’t like Roslovic at it either.

He played center a few years ago in Columbus, but that was only because of their void at center, and it torpedoed his career

He plays much better at wing. He’s a speedy airhead.

And he has PK’d but not sure how good he is at it.

He wouldn’t be the worst depth guy if he was cheap enough, but his Evolving Hockey projection is 3 years/ 4.439m, and that ain’t close to cheap enough.

 

[Guadana]

thats fair. in my head we got 7OA talent in Mercer and 2nd round talent in our 18OA.

Mercer is 7OA level talent. Mukhamadullin is ~10-20OA level talent, he was main piece in the trade of Meier. One of the best players who was traded. Its not like SJ wanted our late 1st/2nd round picks, and its not like we were the only team who wanted to trade for Meier.

Holtz... he still can score on NHL level. At least in minor role. All of his per minutes stats are bullsh1t but even scoring in the minor role is role. May be he will develop his game more and will become middle six scoring winger, may be he will develop his game better and will become complimentary scoring winger. Will see. Of course for now we dont know what we have in him, he is very raw, he needs to polish a lot of his aspects of the game, but overall it was on the draft. Fitz should learn from that. We literally have a couple of candidates like especially Eiserman and less problematic but still very raw Sennecke whose potential and overall shape exist in the theory and minds of fans.
Does Holtz worth 18-20OA pick now? yeah, I guess. May be not the best outcome, but still very good.

 

[My3Sons]

Id kick the tires on Roslovic

If he can come on a good contract, I would like that added C depth for bottom 6.

6’1” 200 lb depth center who can skate and pot some goals, also can PK. Also a right shot which is always nice.

I think he’s a wing? Don’t recall him at center in any of these playoff games? I could see him as a winger for Jack if you added a defensive wing with some size and puck retrieval on the other side

 

[theoptimist]

Mercer is 7OA level talent. Mukhamadullin is ~10-20OA level talent, he was main piece in the trade of Meier. One of the best players who was traded. Its not like SJ wanted our late 1st/2nd round picks, and its not like we were the only team who wanted to trade for Meier.

Holtz... he still can score on NHL level. At least in minor role. All of his per minutes stats are bullsh1t but even scoring in the minor role is role. May be he will develop his game more and will become middle six scoring winger, may be he will develop his game better and will become complimentary scoring winger. Will see. Of course for now we dont know what we have in him, he is very raw, he needs to polish a lot of his aspects of the game, but overall it was on the draft. Fitz should learn from that. We literally have a couple of candidates like especially Eiserman and less problematic but still very raw Sennecke whose potential and overall shape exist in the theory and minds of fans.
Does Holtz worth 18-20OA pick now? yeah, I guess. May be not the best outcome, but still very good.

This is why Holtz is still a worthwhile piece in a trade. You trade him now while his potential is still relevant OR you wait a see how he plays under Keefe. The latter has a lot of risk, and worst case, could lower his value before he’s due for a new deal.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Jack getting significantly injured is going to kill any season regardless of the depth we try to bring in at C. That just needs to not happen. We also had a problem with right handed dmen last year when Dougie went down and absolutely do not need a right handed dman — the depth is fine there. Dougie is also a guy depth is just not going to replace.

Sure, we could use a guy that can play center. If we added an actual impact player at C then we’d have the best center depth in the NHL. That would be nice, but is that the standard? 2 franchise Cs, a decent 3C, and an okay 4C in Nosek (if he’s brought back) plus Lazar that can play 4C is really a big problem? Seems like we’re checking most of the boxes already.

Obviously we aren't winning the division or contending for a cup without Jack, but You're talking about a team that had McLeod and Justin Dowling as their top 2 centers for a game last year. We're unlikely to be without Hischier and Hughes at the same time again, but we need to be able to reasonably replace one of them at some point and not just crater. Not saying we need to go out and sign Lindholm, but a better version of Haula that could play wing with Jack but take faceoffs and slide inside when needed is pretty much a necessity for this team.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Obviously we aren't winning the division or contending for a cup without Jack, but You're talking about a team that had McLeod and Justin Dowling as their top 2 centers for a game last year. We're unlikely to be without Hischier and Hughes at the same time again, but we need to be able to reasonably replace one of them at some point and not just crater. Not saying we need to go out and sign Lindholm, but a better version of Haula that could play wing with Jack but take faceoffs and slide inside when needed is pretty much a necessity for this team.

There just aren’t a whole lot of good options. Cirelli but he’s close to a pipe dream and probably won’t move. Maybe Colton if Colorado has a cap problem? He probably doesn’t move either. There’s Stephenson but he sucked last year and likely gets a bad deal. Henrique? Maybe, but he’s more of a wing that just takes draws and probably gets a bad contract.

I’d like another center, but it’s easier said than done. UFA market is very thin, and there aren’t even many appealing RFAs to look at. It’s probably more realistic to expect a Nosek-level add than someone that could do a good job filling in for a top 6 center.

 

[Devils Trap]

I think Cirelli is a big possibility. Depends if we want to tie up that cap but TB has to shed cap somewhere

Basically if we want him, we can get him. I just dont know if we can stomach that cap

 

[tailfins]

Cirelli feels like a deadline type of move to me. He's probably worth the cost if Fitz feels he's a piece that can put the team over the top. Of course, it's unlikely that Tampa is selling. But, even more reason not to chase Cirelli - Tampa will be looking to compete next year. Holtz and a 2nd isn't what they'll want. They'll want a cheaper player who can provide similar (Mercer?)

 

[ZYXWVUT]

still don't think cirelli is going anywhere

 

[Rhodes 81]

We have two more years before we have to re-sign Nemec. As it stands, we could commit ourselves up to the cap this year and still easily pay Luke next year with the anticipated cap rise. Once we get to paying Nemec, Palat will have 1 year left and Haula will hit UFA. Those two would be a big infusion of cap space if we need to pay someone to take Palat and let Haula walk. The next domino would be Hischier needing a new contract the next year but that's so far out that it's not worth considering at this point.

All of that is to say a contract like Cirelli's is not that huge of a commitment. By the end of his contract, the cap may have ballooned so much that it's not nearly the same % of cap as it stands today.

Don't think Cirelli is realistic, but this is what I'm thinking about when trading for an existing contract. We have a lot of flexibility here. Short-term contracts don't commit us to anything, long-term could be bargains given the way the cap should be going now.

 

[Forge]

The problem with that is if you don’t like Mercer at center, you really won’t like Roslovic at it either.

He played center a few years ago in Columbus, but that was only because of their void at center, and it torpedoed his career

He plays much better at wing. He’s a speedy airhead.

And he has PK’d but not sure how good he is at it.

He wouldn’t be the worst depth guy if he was cheap enough, but his Evolving Hockey projection is 3 years/ 4.439m, and that ain’t close to cheap enough.

"Speedy airhead" made me giggle

 

[Guadana]

This is why Holtz is still a worthwhile piece in a trade. You trade him now while his potential is still relevant OR you wait a see how he plays under Keefe. The latter has a lot of risk, and worst case, could lower his value before he’s due for a new deal.

I woukd like to trade him for top 4 ld or for young third line center undr control. Of course if we will trade saros or ullmark its better trade him not or 10OA. But im not so happy about trading him for Markstrom. Holtz can easily score 200-250 goals in nhl. Even in more minor role. For Markstrom would be great to have 50 more good games.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I woukd like to trade him for top 4 ld or for young third line center undr control. Of course if we will trade saros or ullmark its better trade him not or 10OA. But im not so happy about trading him for Markstrom. Holtz can easily score 200-250 goals in nhl. Even in more minor role. For Markstrom would be great to have 50 more good games.

How about the idea of making a run for UFA center Chandler Stephenson?

 

[Andre Palot]

How about the idea of making a run for UFA center Chandler Stephenson?

Pillage the Knights. Acquire Stephenson, McNabb and Thompson

????

Profit

 

[Devils Trap]

Pillage the Knights. Acquire Stephenson, McNabb and Thompson

????

Profit

I think its more likely they make Hague available then McNabb tbh and Hill over Thompson

 

[StevenToddIves]

Pillage the Knights. Acquire Stephenson, McNabb and Thompson

????

Profit

Devils don't have that kind of cap room, but Stephenson would be a perfect 3C and add to bottom 6 scoring, team defense and team speed.

Problem is, I fear he'd be more likely to sign with a team offering him the 2C role, and there will be several suitors likely to do this.

 

[Guadana]

How about the idea of making a run for UFA center Chandler Stephenson?

I like more defensive oriented players. More positionally well rounded. Im not fully against, overall we should be better with him, but he is champion so he will take more than he will give. Im more Henrique guy.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I like Stephenson

but he's going to be expensive

 

[bossram]

Which 2C/3C are you trading for/signing? That is my immediate concern.

None. They run Jack/Nico/Haula.

The UFA center market is horrific, which would mean they have to go the trade route. They'll likely already need to go the trade route if they want a significant defense or goaltending upgrade, so I don't think they can part with any actual assets if they feel they need to add a center.

If Haula can't be a 3C, Fitz should not have re-signed him.

Id kick the tires on Roslovic

If he can come on a good contract, I would like that added C depth for bottom 6.

6’1” 200 lb depth center who can skate and pot some goals, also can PK. Also a right shot which is always nice.

Roslovic doesn't play center. And you certainly wouldn't want him to. He's a one-way offensive winger.

I think this fanbase, along with other fans are wayyyy too hard on Holtz. He had 16 goals and 28 points and has been improving (albeit slowly) year to year.

I'm not concerned with his +/- because

1. +/- is a bullshit statistic
2. The team itself will be getting better this year and there will be more goal support.

I don't know why his trade stock is considered 'low' by outside fans, or even some of our fans. He is clearly getting better. If he ends up a 25-30 goal scorer, we should be tickled.

I'm higher on Holtz than most, but Fitz/the org just doesn't like him. I'm not projecting him onto the roster next year because he is obvious trade bait for other roster upgrades.

Based on how Keefe treated a guy like Nick Robertson, he probably isn't going to give much flexibility to Holtz either.

The problem with that is if you don’t like Mercer at center, you really won’t like Roslovic at it either.

He played center a few years ago in Columbus, but that was only because of their void at center, and it torpedoed his career

He plays much better at wing. He’s a speedy airhead.

And he has PK’d but not sure how good he is at it.

He wouldn’t be the worst depth guy if he was cheap enough, but his Evolving Hockey projection is 3 years/ 4.439m, and that ain’t close to cheap enough.

100%. Roslovic is a terrible option. Complete non-starter.

How about the idea of making a run for UFA center Chandler Stephenson?

He had a really horrible season by his underlying numbers. Usually a reliable two-way guy became completely untrusted. Vegas seems to have no interest in keeping him at all, and brought in his replacement (Hertl).

 

[theoptimist]

I woukd like to trade him for top 4 ld or for young third line center undr control. Of course if we will trade saros or ullmark its better trade him not or 10OA. But im not so happy about trading him for Markstrom. Holtz can easily score 200-250 goals in nhl. Even in more minor role. For Markstrom would be great to have 50 more good games.

Young meaning below age 30? To be honest, I can't think of any that are cost controlled. Nicolas Roy/Connor McMichael are not going anywhere. If not Cirelli, Gourde would be nice (he's 32).

 

[theoptimist]

If Haula can't be a 3C, Fitz should not have re-signed him.

I don't think this is very fair. I haven't met anyone yet that could predict the future. Why I didn't hate bringing back Ruff after the season we had.

 

[bossram]

I don't think this is very fair. I haven't met anyone yet that could predict the future. Why I didn't hate bringing back Ruff after the season we had.

No one can predict the future. But you need to make some assumptions/projections when evaluating and signing players. Otherwise you literally have no idea how to proceed. Might as well be making random offers.

If you give Haula $3+M into his mid 30s, part of the value there is that you expect he can play center. If he can't, they should not have offered him that much.

 

[theoptimist]

No one can predict the future. But you need to make some assumptions/projections when evaluating and signing players. Otherwise you literally have no idea how to proceed. Might as well be making random offers.

If you give Haula $3+M into his mid 30s, part of the value there is that you expect he can play center. If he can't, they should not have offered him that much.

Life does not end at 32. I don't understand the infatuation with not committing to players 30+ (not implying it's just you). IMO, these players will help you develop younger players who will eventually fill that role and maybe contribute further up in the lineup. Part of what makes Nico's first season (2017-2018) amazing is that he played 1C for most of it with very little center support (outside of Coleman and maybe Zajac). He doubled their counting totals.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Gourde would actually be pretty appealing. Just one year left on the deal. A bit pricey, but not bad if you pay for some retention. He’s #small but plays hard and has plenty of playoff experience. Don’t know what Seattle’s plans are though.