Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 training camp edition

[Bleedred]

The Vancouver fans trashed his coaching ability pretty hard when he was announced as going to join the NJ staff. I can't recall the specifics but it was pretty ugly.

From what I remember, the team did a complete 180 after he was fired and Boudreau took over. And not just in wins and losses, but in actual on-ice play. It wasn't just they were getting the shots in or getting the saves. In fact, I remember Demko having an equal save percentage during the Green coached part of that season and the Boudreau coached part. At least up to a point, By year's end, it may not have been so even. But it was more about Demko facing fewer chances and shots after the coaching change, because it seemed they were pretty system-less before the coaching change.

So that to me made me think Green just didn't at all know what he was doing.

But then the next year the Canucks wound up looking exactly like they did under Green in 21-22 under Boudreau. So maybe Green wasn't quite as bad as he looked (because remember, the Canucks organization is, was and still remains a dumpster fire), but the team definitely saw a huge spark and change in dynamics after moving on from him. At least in the short term. It didn't continue into the next season.

And it's funny because I'm pretty sure Vancouver re-upped Travis Green and head coach the offseason right before they fired him. So they fired him like a month or two into that new deal. I remember there being panic that Seattle could go after him if they don't re-sign him. They eventually re-signed him shortly after that season ended.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[My3Sons]

I'm not really impressed with his NHL resume either, although to be fair Vancouver has been a shitshow organization for a while, so how much of that was him and how much the roster/talent im not sure. Plus it was his first stint as a head coach in the NHL, so maybe he's learned from it. If he's Ruff's successor...let's just say I'm skeptical that he's "the right guy".

Vancouver fans are the Saints fans of the NHL but with a bad team. They are too close to the situation and have been obsessing on it longer than anyone actually associated with the team. They know the team, coaching, and players better than the team does. They are insufferable when the team loses and worse when it wins. They worry about minutia and see luck as divinely ordained, and usually against them. The reality is they are very knowledgeable as a group and are very invested in a team that probably doesn't deserve their loyalty. Point being, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt. Too often it seems driven by emotion. My guess is Green didn't answer someone's fantasy related question at the Stop and Shop about who was starting in goal on a a back to back and that guy trashed Green to everyone ever since. Go ask Saints fans about Sean Payton. The responses range from "he was great and I will always be thankful he brought a great team and a Super Bowl to New Orleans and Denver is lucky to have him" to "He quit on the Saints and I hope he runs out of oxygen and dies in Denver just like their defense is going to die with him in charge". The reality is he is a good coach with some flaws that are generally related to his ego.

 

[Triumph]

I think he be might talking about @Triumph who relatively recently posted some statistics in regards to prospects that have not broken into the league by D+4?

I don't remember doing anything like that - not trying to gaslight you, I might've done that, but I don't remember it.

That said, yes, Holtz has to stick in the NHL this year.

Am I alone in thinking Ruff is not the right guy?

I mean I think he was good for the transitional period of the team going from wretched to decent but he's not the guy to go from decent to the pinnacle... that's my feeling.

And with that thought I can't help but think we might be wasting a year with him at the helm.

I don't know where this idea of a transitional coach comes from. Yes, a lot of teams have fired coaches on their way to championships, but a lot of those coaches didn't coach again - they weren't transitional, they were just not NHL head coaches, or at least no one believed they were anymore.

Ruff may not be the right guy, but I don't see who else is.

 

[WetWholphin]

It feels kind of weird coming into a season with high hopes, not just based off of a new shiny prospect, but the actual reality that we have a good team (and we still have some shiny prospects). I’m very excited.

 

[Guttersniped]

If Ruff hangs in there a bit and the Pens core ages out, we can get Mike Sullivan on the rebound. (A gal can dream.)

 

[JimEIV]

I don't remember doing anything like that - not trying to gaslight you, I might've done that, but I don't remember it.

Im not sure if I was even part of the conversation but I'm pretty sure you were mentioning how the likelihood of a prospect becoming an NHL player drops dramatically after D+4...also I don't believe this was related to Holtz, I think the conversation was about Stillman or bottom 6 players.

If I remember correctly you listed a bunch of first rounders as examples over a 10 year period.

 

[Oneiro]

Sullivan, Cooper or Brindamour stylistically are guys I can live with. Keeping the speed but improving the defensive habits and cycle game - that’s likely what you’re asking of the next coach.

I’m not much of a believer in Ruff, but the gentle touch has gotten results. We’ll see how much longer it lasts.

 

[Nubmer6]

Inflammation and will play in the preseason. Good, they should be cautious.

Ya. His head is still a little swollen after playing so well in the playoffs.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't know where this idea of a transitional coach comes from. Yes, a lot of teams have fired coaches on their way to championships, but a lot of those coaches didn't coach again - they weren't transitional, they were just not NHL head coaches, or at least no one believed they were anymore.

Ruff may not be the right guy, but I don't see who else is.

Because we often see rebuilding teams hire "player coaches" or coaches that are "good with young guys"....we don't often see the coddling coaches in parades in June though.

 

[Devil X]

The Vancouver fans trashed his coaching ability pretty hard when he was announced as going to join the NJ staff. I can't recall the specifics but it was pretty ugly.

I have a hard time listening to fans as the basis for coaching. I have seen teams trash coaches who have left and won cups in other places or won cups for their team.

Hell, there were people on this board hammering away a Pete Deboer when he left. Like it or not he has gone on to have a real solid career as an NHL head coach. I recall someone saying he wouldn't get a job when he got fired from NJ and he was hired very quickly.

This is not me defending Green because frankly i know nothing about him. Just implying fans shouldnt be the basis for if a coach is good or not.

 

[JimEIV]

DeBoer was a good coach.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I don't expect Ruff to be the coach in 3 years, it's just the nature of the gig and he's also quite old. The team will likely face hardships/disappointments like all teams do, and there'll be a bad couple of weeks and the call will be made.

 

[jkrdevil]

Green also isn’t going to be the head guy here. He probably isn’t even going to have as much input / authority as Brunette had last year. He is going to be tasked with assisting and implementing the systems the team ran last year for the most part. Maybe he gets some input on PP.

 

[My3Sons]

Because we often see rebuilding teams hire "player coaches" or coaches that are "good with young guys"....we don't often see the coddling coaches in parades in June though.

How much of that is because developing teams loaded with young players don’t win regardless of who the coach is? If all a coach has is yelling at players to push them he isn’t a very good coach. A good coach should be able to provide a system structure and tactics to maximize the talent. If it’s just play harder anybody can do that.

 

[Better Call Sal]

This was hilarious, glad someone clipped it.

 

[Saugus]

lol omg i'm dying

I love how any time the Devils are goofing around on social media, it's basically mandatory that Dougie is involved somehow.

 

[JimEIV]

How much of that is because developing teams loaded with young players don’t win regardless of who the coach is? If all a coach has is yelling at players to push them he isn’t a very good coach. A good coach should be able to provide a system structure and tactics to maximize the talent. If it’s just play harder anybody can do that.

I don't think it's a matter of just "play harder" or yelling and screaming.
I don't even think it's a matter pushing necessarily although I do believe every good coach knows when to push and when not to...

It is more of an uncompromising demand to the adherence to the system.

If you really want to deep dive...
When the turnovers happen in dangerous areas of the ice or you fail to get the puck deep with a lead and trap your defense leaving them flatfooted or a weak back check or leave the zone too early....
That stuff is just not allowed to exist without consequences on championship caliber teams...but on Ruff teams, they are still very much a part of regular play.


I also think that there is a bit of a "ratchet theory" with all of that...once move forward with that loosey goosey attitude you can't go back...

I also think you're a bad coach when you're willing to discipline a Boqvist or Tatar or even a Bratt and not Hischier or Hughes or Hamilton...just examples.

I don't think the team has performed with that high level of crispness that very good teams do... and it has nothing to do with talent. Watching Carolina vs NJ in the playoffs made that pretty clear to me...one team moved and performed like a Gershwin ballet while the other moved and performed like an Elaine Benes dance. That's pure preparation and coaching.

 

[My3Sons]

I don't think it's a matter of just "play harder" or yelling and screaming.
I don't even think it's a matter pushing necessarily although I do believe every good coach knows when to push and when not to...

It is more of an uncompromising demand to the adherence to the system.

If you really want to deep dive...
When the turnovers happen in dangerous areas of the ice or you fail to get the puck deep with a lead and trap your defense leaving them flatfooted or a weak back check or leave the zone too early....
That stuff is just not allowed to exist without consequences on championship caliber teams...but on Ruff teams, they are still very much a part of regular play.


I also think that there is a bit of a "ratchet theory" with all of that...once move forward with that loosey goosey attitude you can't go back...

I also think you're a bad coach when you're willing to discipline a Boqvist or Tatar or even a Bratt and not Hischier or Hughes or Hamilton...just examples.

I don't think the team has performed with that high level of crispness that very good teams do... and it has nothing to do with talent. Watching Carolina vs NJ in the playoffs made that pretty clear to me...one team moved and performed like a Gershwin ballet while the other moved and performed like an Elaine Benes dance. That's pure preparation and coaching.

That’s the tactics. I agree with a lot of what you propose. Wi th young teams there seems to be a phase where they have to be allowed to play loose to grow their creativity and talent and another phase where they dial it back. That second phase is where you would expect there more detail oriented coach. Still with a team like NJ they can play smart - which Tatar did last season - but they still need experience - as shown by the series against Carolina. They will have to figure it out and if they want to win they will make the necessary adjustments

 

[Camille the Eel]

Inflammation and will play in the preseason. Good, they should be cautious.

Inflammation where and of what ? It’s kind of a meaningless statement without more. Glad he added he expected Luke to play in preseason. Because do I remember how Nico was just being held out as a precaution a couple years back until it maybe turned out he had a broken leg?

I mean these guys don’t have much credibility when discussing injuries. But then again he has to say something.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Inflammation where and of what ? It’s kind of a meaningless statement without more. Glad he added he expected Luke to play in preseason. Because do I remember how Nico was just being held out as a precaution a couple years back until it maybe turned out he had a broken leg?

I mean these guys don’t have much credibility when discussing injuries. But then again he has to say something.

I read somewhere it was a mild body injury and he will definitely be back soon, I think I saw sometime between Monday and March.

 

[Devs3cups]

He literally practiced today guys.

 

[My3Sons]

He literally practiced today guys.

That’s what they want you to believe

 

[Guttersniped]

Sullivan, Cooper or Brindamour stylistically are guys I can live with. Keeping the speed but improving the defensive habits and cycle game - that’s likely what you’re asking of the next coach.

I’m not much of a believer in Ruff, but the gentle touch has gotten results. We’ll see how much longer it lasts.

Three of the top coaches in the league work for you lol?

I don’t know if Brind’Amour stylistically fits, you have to get the puck back a lot to do their dump & chase. They have a pretty unique system.

There might be a slight chance Brid’Amour becomes available after this year, it felt like the Canes grudgingly gave him a 3 year/1.8m deal in 2021 and that was way cheap.

He shapes their team identity so much it’s hard to imagine the team without him and it would be very counterproductive to let him go obviously.

But he wants more money next off-season. (Understandably.)



Edit: wrote this quickly after traveling with no sleep so the lack of proofreading was extra-special and I didn’t even finish part of it lol.

 

[Nubmer6]

I don't know how in the world you remember this stuff. Seriously I can't remember details of a random game that specifically from 20+ years ago...

Especially if someone was giving me attitude during the game, all I would remember is that.

We're lucky to have our own resident Rainman here.