Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Triumph]

No they wouldn't, this is almost laughable.

You think Jack Hughes is worth 9 wins a year? Yeah, sorry, he's really good, but he is nowhere close to that.

 

[glenwo2]

You think Jack Hughes is worth 9 wins a year? Yeah, sorry, he's really good, but he is nowhere close to that.

What am i reading here?

Are you saying Jack Hughes can't win the Devils games by himself?

 

[Ripshot 43]

it’s hilarious that lou STILL can’t compete in a salary cap league. what a senile embarrassment he is. it’s like seeing someone you admired growing up eating moose shit in a walgreens parking lot. pathetic

This is oddly specific. I am here for the follow up story…

 

[Guadana]

I've spent the entire summer going on Youtube and watching highlights from last season. First time in a long time I've done that.

I just looked up Palat clowning Fox and Kreider in Game 7 and it made me smile. Same with watching Hughes highlights, Dougie highlights, Mercer highlights, Nico highlights. This team is so much fun and I love them so much.

nononono worst deal in the history of the Devils. Literally would ruined us if Devils would sign someone like him 6-7 years ago for 5 years. Somehow.

 

[My3Sons]

Fair enough ... I would defer to you as to whether specific scouts/GMs/teams have a track record of "outperforming" with their later-round picks. If so, then that would certainly bear out the smarter people theory. Obviously, the Devils staff felt that Bratt had more upside vs. anyone else that was out there and, if so, they deserve credit for seeing that when no other team did. My point was (and is) that they didn't deem him worthy of being picked earlier.

Also ... the concert discussion is making me feel young, as my first concert wasn't until 1980

1980? Do you mean 1990? My first concert was in 1981 and am well over 50. I think there is only one poster that has concert experiences going back into the 1970s.

 

[Guadana]

You are one of very few posters who can speak about themselves in thr third person and have it be totally natural. Beyond that I’d say the Beatles exist ina somewhat different category than any other band from that era. Maybe they are only comparable to Elvis in some sense. It’s not a musical issue it’s more that they transcend popular music in some way. John and Paul’s boyhood homes are museums now. Places they have played have essentially become shrines to them (EMI studio gets renamed Abbey Road and the former Savile Row Apple building still has a memorial to them on the first floor and I think the Cavern Club has been preserved). Their movies aren’t just performance movies and their collectibles and memorabilia encompasses things no other group or artist from that era would have had. That said “best” is subjective and everyone has their preferences. When it comes to the Beatles you also have to decide how to asses their post Beatles albums. Are they a continuation in a roundabout way (I know John saw them as a continuation in some sense). I enjoy a lot of the classic rock era music and I am disappointed it’s somewhat ignored in popular music culture today by younger audiences.

My skill of the language does not allow me to express myself sufficiently, so my image on the forum differs from what I imagine myself to be at least. Therefore, Guadana and I are somewhat different from each other and I am well aware of this, my own messages often seem funny to me and I am aware of their crookedness and comicality. Especially when I reread it after.
Human life is shallow and meaningless, why shouldn't people waste time on hobbies. And the Beatles were very inspiring. We spend our time on Devils - they are inspiring too. But this is also a useless story, if you look at the truth. Today's youth have so many problems that they simply do not have the strength to understand culture for the most part.

 

[My3Sons]

This is oddly specific. I am here for the follow up story…

it was actually orangutan shit and I was hungry and not only that but it was a CVS, not Walgreens. Some people just have to embellish things.

 

[Cheddabombs]

it was actually orangutan shit and I was hungry and not only that but it was a CVS, not Walgreens. Some people just have to embellish things.

I lol'd

 

[My3Sons]

My skill of the language does not allow me to express myself sufficiently, so my image on the forum differs from what I imagine myself to be at least. Therefore, Guadana and I are somewhat different from each other and I am well aware of this, my own messages often seem funny to me and I am aware of their crookedness and comicality. Especially when I reread it after.
Human life is shallow and meaningless, why shouldn't people waste time on hobbies. And the Beatles were very inspiring. We spend our time on Devils - they are inspiring too. But this is also a useless story, if you look at the truth. Today's youth have so many problems that they simply do not have the strength to understand culture for the most part.

Your posts in English are top notch. Sometimes your turn of phrase is unusual but always an entertaining read. Who can forget the lemons living on your eyes? Don't sell yourself short, you can make points better than some who have written English their entire lives.

 

[Guadana]

Your posts in English are top notch. Sometimes your turn of phrase is unusual but always an entertaining read. Who can forget the lemons living on your eyes? Don't sell yourself short, you can make points better than some who have written English their entire lives.

May be I don`t understand the lemon thing. It`s just a joke in the form I would use it on russian with the same way.
Still I feel big difference and trying to simplify. Overall the Russian language allows you to use complex sentences and phrases, if we talk about the language as a whole. In speech, this sounds easier because the words in the language are more independent and less tied to a specific place in the sentence. Well, my vocabulary is a little more in my native language. This allows me to joke more subtly, introduce an additional layer, it is easier to be ironic with a reference to something, to play with words. In English, I have to use lemons. And its fun anyway. Especially considering the fact that people who can't stand me end up being stand and stay silent for the most part. I appreciate it.

 

[JimEIV]

Fitz’s drafts have been weirder lol.

How so?

I certainly appreciate Fitz addressing the lack of Defense drafted during the Shero years and trying to add some more size and grit.

But as far as defense goes, the drafting under Fitz compared to Shero has been night and day.

In 4 drafts under Fitz we have drafted 12 defensemen out of 28 picks (43%) and 4 in the first 2 rounds of the draft. 3 in the 1st round.

Under Shero in 5 drafts we drafted 13 defensemen out of 42 picks. (31%) and 2 in the first 2 rounds of draft. 1 in the 1st round.

Not to mention Fitz's trades and Free Agent signings for Defense.

 

[AfroThunder396]

it’s hilarious that lou STILL can’t compete in a salary cap league. what a senile embarrassment he is. it’s like seeing someone you admired growing up eating moose shit in a walgreens parking lot. pathetic

It reminds me of those videos you see of famous 90's wrestlers nowadays, still getting coked up and doing house shows for 5 people in a parking lot despite all being in their 50's and 60's.

 

[My3Sons]

May be I don`t understand the lemon thing. It`s just a joke in the form I would use it on russian with the same way.
Still I feel big difference and trying to simplify. Overall the Russian language allows you to use complex sentences and phrases, if we talk about the language as a whole. In speech, this sounds easier because the words in the language are more independent and less tied to a specific place in the sentence. Well, my vocabulary is a little more in my native language. This allows me to joke more subtly, introduce an additional layer, it is easier to be ironic with a reference to something, to play with words. In English, I have to use lemons. And its fun anyway. Especially considering the fact that people who can't stand me end up being stand and stay silent for the most part. I appreciate it.

Of course you can do things in your native language that are more difficult in a secondary language but that's what makes it fun to read when you post. You of course have well thought out and supported opinions, but there is a saying in English, "it's not what you say but how you say it". You can make a simple point but it's how you say it which is to use words differently than a native speaker would and it's great stuff. It's probably simple to you but to my western ear it often sounds very creative.

 

[Brodeur]

How so?

I certainly appreciate Fitz addressing the lack of Defense drafted during the Shero years and trying to add some more size and grit.

But as far as defense goes, the drafting under Fitz compared to Shero has been night and day.

In 4 drafts under Fitz we have drafted 12 defensemen out of 28 picks (43%) and 4 in the first 2 rounds of the draft. 3 in the 1st round.

Under Shero in 5 drafts we drafted 13 defensemen out of 42 picks. (31%) and 2 in the first 2 rounds of draft. 1 in the 1st round.

Not to mention Fitz's trades and Free Agent signings for Defense.

In Shero's defense, he left the draft up to the scouts to take BPA. Shero did express some concern as the 2016 Draft was unfolding. First six picks were used on five forwards and a goalie. An article mentioned that Shero said something to the effect of "maybe consider a defenseman at some point" and they took Yegor Rykov with our next selection.

When the broadcast showed us drafting Case McCarthy in 2019, Shero wasn't even at the draft table which isn't unusual for a mid-round pick. GMs will often walk the floor and talk to other GMs or sometimes go into the stands and chat with agents. I have a picture from the 2011 Draft of Dean Lombardi talking to Drew Doughty's agent (he was about to be RFA after his ELC) as LA was making its 3rd round pick.

It's amusing talking to Penguins fans who thought their Shero drafts were too D heavy. I suppose it comes with the territory of being a GM though, you get more credit/blame on picks even if you don't have a ton of input.

 

[Devils731]

New role in the organization combining analytics and player development. The analytics group keeps growing.

 

[MartyOwns]

i think we can all agree that shero is a bum for not transforming the entire defense corps at the same time he was transforming our forwards. he should’ve used the valuable assets lou left behind to draft 20 players each year instead of worrying about buying out gems like schneider and camm.

 

[Saugus]

New role in the organization combining analytics and player development. The analytics group keeps growing.

I'm qualified for the position, and would totally apply to that, except I'm not entry-level and I don't want to move to NJ.

Ah well.

 

[JimEIV]

I'm qualified for the position, and would totally apply to that, except I'm not entry-level and I don't want to move to NJ.

Ah well.

I have R and some Python, I was a team lead for those developers for 5 years...doing mostly scrum and PM stuff and only little development...and was a Oracle DBA for 4 years for American Express....

But I really like this not working thing I have going on.

 

[guitarguyvic]

People really think we wouldn’t have competed for a playoff spot if we didn’t have Jack last year? That would suggest that we didn’t have quality depth, which is…not aligned with what actually happened. You don’t accomplish a record breaking 112 point season on the back of a single player.

If you want to see what it actually looks like to be carried by a single player, see the 2017 devils, and what they became when that player regressed/left the team.

 

[Hisch13r]

I’m way more concerned about our goaltending than defense, and I’m not that concerned about goaltending.

Graves was meh at the end here and Severson is a loss but he was a 3rd pairing guy for us. I trust Hughes can have an immediate impact (given his play with us at the end of the season I don’t see why not, even if it was a small sample size) and that Bahl can hold his own. Hopefully he can PK.

I can see a small drop off on D, but nothing dramatic and it’s obviously for the best moving forward.

I’m with you. The goaltending concerns me because I don’t like the depth beyond the top 2 all that much and I’m much super confident in the top 2. Would like Halak. I’m pretty confident in Vitek being around average again in the regular season. The playoffs are a real concern. Back to back years of being complete dogshit and unplayable. Schmid’s still a big question mark. Could go either way.

With the D you probably take a slight but I don’t think it’s really substantial. Not concerned at all on Luke. Miller’s a good add. Bahl’s a bit of a question. He should at least be a decent bottom pair guy. If he ends up being a really good bottom pair guy then it looks good. By the end of the year Nemec should be ready to make an impact too.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm qualified for the position, and would totally apply to that, except I'm not entry-level and I don't want to move to NJ.

Ah well.

If they had any brains they’d hire my middle son.

 

[Saugus]

I have R and some Python, I was a team lead for those developers for 5 years...doing mostly scrum and PM stuff and only little development...and was a Oracle DBA for 4 years for American Express....

But I really like this not working thing I have going on.

I'm literally running a random forest model in R right now, and wasting time on HF while it processes.

I also use Python and SQL on a near-daily basis.

As for the hockey knowledge requirement, well, you tell me.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I wanted to go to grad school and study genetics. First week of class my advisor was like "you know how to use R, right?" I told him no. His instructions were "Okay, well go learn R this weekend, then on Monday come back and we'll get started." Yeah dude, I'll just learn R in two days and be ready to go.

I ended up getting my master's despite doing the absolute bare minimum, then promptly changed fields. I loved learning about the topic, I just hated doing the work. I have no idea how you coders do it, that shit sucks. If the Devils post a job opening for a vertebrate physiologist I'll definitely apply.

 

[JimEIV]

People really think we wouldn’t have competed for a playoff spot if we didn’t have Jack last year? That would suggest that we didn’t have quality depth, which is…not aligned with what actually happened. You don’t accomplish a record breaking 112 point season on the back of a single player.

If you want to see what it actually looks like to be carried by a single player, see the 2017 devils, and what they became when that player regressed/left the team.

Jack was responsible for 15% of this teams goals.

Replace Jack as 1C with Nico and Nico with Huala or Mercer and your 6 top becomes instantly pedestrian.

 

[Nubmer6]

How so?

I certainly appreciate Fitz addressing the lack of Defense drafted during the Shero years and trying to add some more size and grit.

But as far as defense goes, the drafting under Fitz compared to Shero has been night and day.

In 4 drafts under Fitz we have drafted 12 defensemen out of 28 picks (43%) and 4 in the first 2 rounds of the draft. 3 in the 1st round.

Under Shero in 5 drafts we drafted 13 defensemen out of 42 picks. (31%) and 2 in the first 2 rounds of draft. 1 in the 1st round.

Not to mention Fitz's trades and Free Agent signings for Defense.

In Shero's defense, he left the draft up to the scouts to take BPA. Shero did express some concern as the 2016 Draft was unfolding. First six picks were used on five forwards and a goalie. An article mentioned that Shero said something to the effect of "maybe consider a defenseman at some point" and they took Yegor Rykov with our next selection.

When the broadcast showed us drafting Case McCarthy in 2019, Shero wasn't even at the draft table which isn't unusual for a mid-round pick. GMs will often walk the floor and talk to other GMs or sometimes go into the stands and chat with agents. I have a picture from the 2011 Draft of Dean Lombardi talking to Drew Doughty's agent (he was about to be RFA after his ELC) as LA was making its 3rd round pick.

It's amusing talking to Penguins fans who thought their Shero drafts were too D heavy. I suppose it comes with the territory of being a GM though, you get more credit/blame on picks even if you don't have a ton of input.

As far as the draft is concerned, I think both GMs had their strengths and weaknesses.

Shero was HORRIBLE at drafting defensemen. I think his D evaluation was just bad in general, as the guys he brought in via trade and FA signings weren't very good either. I also feel he stuck too much to his "fast, attacking, supportive" mantra, which created a team full of small, fast, soft players. I do, however, prefer his style of drafting forwards, at least in that he was going for high up-side boom-or-bust prospects which leads to some hits like Bratt.

Fitz is *MUCH* better at evaluating defensemen, but I'd like him to be a little less "safe". I'm not sure if he was specifically addressing areas like 3rd/4th liners (i.e. Stillman), but I just don't like a lot of his 2nd-4th round picks.

I also suspect both GMs were targeting positions a bit too much. Shero, for example, finally realized he needed to address defensive defensemen and ended up drafting a BUNCH in his last draft (Vukojevic, Okhotyuk, McCarthy, etc). It's kind of like over-compensating.