Toggle sidebar

Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

Status
Not open for further replies.
Aurinko

Aurinko

Registered User
Apr 1, 2015
3,514
2,303
Finland
Hisch13r said:
Nosek and McLeod are fine 4th lines. They're not extreme value. They're not even great value or surplus value at all really. They're paid what they should be paid. Miller's fine value and is gone after this year anyway so I don't even know why he's mentioned. Toffoli's great value but 1 year left regardless. Nemec and Holtz on their ELCs would provide more FAR value the following year than Miller and Toffoli. What you're saying is absurd. A 40 goal Holtz for a year on his ELC is MILES MORE VALUABLE than Nosek, McLeod, and Miller combined. We'd also still likely be able to keep Toffoli short term because we'd have Holtz on his ELC still.
Click to expand...
McLeod is currently in my books extremely valuable player. I think 6 pts in the playoffs for a 1M player is more than any other player on the team can deliver. And I do put a lot of weight on playoff performance, the personal production in the playoffs and if the line won their battles. McLeod is the one guy that stands out nomatter who you compare him to. Nosek I put as a high value player because of the similar crazy outplay he performer last season in the Bruins (with 59% faceoffs to add to that), and I do have good memories of him playing strong in the VGK. Colin Miller is coming of a career season as well and while Miller and Nosek did not carry or produce in the playoffs I give valuate them high for what they have accomplished last season. Toffoli should also be a guaranteed performer. While I don't know him as well, I did watch him in the Habs and I've seen how he can carry big international games.

I see no way Holtz will be comparable to these guys in value no matter how perfect he plays. Nosek was big part of why the Bruins had the redonkylously good season they had and without McLeod there might not be a series win. If you try to replace defense with offense, 40 goals (or whatver a high production winger can do) is still next to nothing compared to a solid 2-way play. That is my 30 years experience from hockey. In the playoffs that is even more important. If everyone tries their best and one guy does a mistake, it's inflating the damage that the single mistake does.

I do hope Holtz all the best, but I'm quite certain this way of seeing the things is similar how management in most teams view things. It's going to be hard for Holtz to find a spot unless he's willing to bleed some offense for defense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guadana, bossram, StevenToddIves and 3 others

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
11,083
28,014
Brooklyn, NY
Aurinko said:
McLeod is currently in my books extremely valuable player. I think 6 pts in the playoffs for a 1M player is more than any other player on the team can deliver. And I do put a lot of weight on playoff performance, the personal production in the playoffs and if the line won their battles. McLeod is the one guy that stands out nomatter who you compare him to. Nosek I put as a high value player because of the similar crazy outplay he performer last season in the Bruins (with 59% faceoffs to add to that), and I do have good memories of him playing strong in the VGK. Colin Miller is coming of a career season as well and while Miller and Nosek did not carry or produce in the playoffs I give valuate them high for what they have accomplished last season. Toffoli should also be a guaranteed performer. While I don't know him as well, I did watch him in the Habs and I've seen how he can carry big international games.

I see no way Holtz will be comparable to these guys in value no matter how perfect he plays. Nosek was big part of why the Bruins had the redonkylously good season they had and without McLeod there might not be a series win. If you try to replace defense with offense, 40 goals (or whatver a high production winger can do) is still next to nothing compared to a solid 2-way play. That is my 30 years experience from hockey. In the playoffs that is even more important. If everyone tries their best and one guy does a mistake, it's inflating the damage that the single mistake does.

I do hope Holtz all the best, but I'm quite certain this way of seeing the things is similar how management in most teams view things. It's going to be hard for Holtz to find a spot unless he's willing to bleed some offense for defense.
Click to expand...
If Holtz can crack a 3rd line roster spot with 2PP minutes, 20+ goals is not an impossibility. He'd also be able to slot up the line-up in case of injury. You just can't teach that type of shot and, as I've said often, his passing vision is also extremely high and very under-appreciated.

If Holtz can't crack the lineup this year, we would have to guess he'll be the prime chip in any deadline-deal to improve the NJ playoff chances. But I'm holding out faith in the kid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Its Always Sundstrom, HBK27, Guadana and 4 others
Billdo

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
19,916
17,245
Ocean County
StevenToddIves said:
If Holtz can crack a 3rd line roster spot with 2PP minutes, 20+ goals is not an impossibility. He'd also be able to slot up the line-up in case of injury. You just can't teach that type of shot and, as I've said often, his passing vision is also extremely high and very under-appreciated.

If Holtz can't crack the lineup this year, we would have to guess he'll be the prime chip in any deadline-deal to improve the NJ playoff chances. But I'm holding out faith in the kid.
Click to expand...
I think if he winds up with Palat and Haula that he'll be successful. Those two seems to have a game more suitable for a guy like Holtz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guadana, StevenToddIves and Devs3cups
TheUnseenHand

TheUnseenHand

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 5, 2010
48,949
20,156
Nubmer6 said:
Maybe I'm too old, but...

Can any kids today complete a sentence without the word "like" in it?
Click to expand...

It drives me nuts. But it does seem to be mostly confined to younger kids. When I was a kid I remember like being an oft repeated word.

It's not all young kids though. My boss says it constantly. Sometimes it's difficult to understand what she's trying to communicate she uses it so much. So not everyone grows out of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guadana, My3Sons and Nubmer6

StevenToddIves

Registered User
May 18, 2013
11,083
28,014
Brooklyn, NY
Billdo said:
I think if he winds up with Palat and Haula that he'll be successful. Those two seems to have a game more suitable for a guy like Holtz.
Click to expand...
Holtz should play a Brett Hull-type role -- which is let his other two wingers do most of the grunt work, with his job basically to find open seams to get off his rocket of a shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Its Always Sundstrom, Better Call Sal, HBK27 and 1 other person
My3Sons

My3Sons

Nobody told me there'd be days like these...
Sponsor
Jul 7, 2017
38,518
48,983
Strange days indeed, most peculiar momma.....
StevenToddIves said:
Holtz should play a Brett Hull-type role -- which is let his other two wingers do most of the grunt work, with his job basically to find open seams to get off his rocket of a shot.
Click to expand...
Holtz has something of a Zacha effect going on in my view. The team is insisting he do so much away from the puck and emphasizing defense to the point I think he’s lost a bit of what made him special. In my view the team needs to just let him play and give him some extended run despite the inevitable mistakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Its Always Sundstrom, StevenToddIves, Guadana and 3 others
Hisch13r

Hisch13r

Registered User
May 16, 2012
34,946
35,528
NJ
My3Sons said:
Holtz has something of a Zacha effect going on in my view. The team is insisting he do so much away from the puck and emphasizing defense to the point I think he’s lost a bit of what made him special. In my view the team needs to just let him play and give him some extended run despite the inevitable mistakes.
Click to expand...

I’m with you on Holtz. For last year I get not giving him the rope he should’ve gotten because it was our first year being good and they were worried the wheels would fall off so they didn’t experiment as much. I still would’ve given him more of a shot because it was clear last year it was no fluke and we could’ve experimented. This year though that concern is gone. We’ve solidified we’re good now. Experiment and give Holtz an extended run. Let him take his lumps along the way and don’t just shun him immediately

On a personal level I think want him to succeed more than any of our prospects (outside of maybe Casey) just because of how raw of a deal he got last year. It could really f*** with a kids development so I really hope he succeeds rather than ends up failing and you wonder how much of last year hurt him.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Better Call Sal, HBK27, Guadana and 4 others
Guttersniped

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,687
50,636
Nubmer6 said:
Maybe I'm too old, but...

Can any kids today complete a sentence without the word "like" in it?
Click to expand...

I mean I obviously don’t know her but often people (particularly young people) will put a lot more “likes”, “you know”, “um” etc when talking in front of a group or a microphone.

Older people do it too when speaking in public, it’s a nervous tic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Its Always Sundstrom, Guadana, My3Sons and 2 others
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom
X