Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[AfroThunder396]

I have zero interest in Blake Wheeler and very little interest in Buck, unless they’re too cheap to say no to.

If Wheeler were to get bought out and sign here on a 1 year 2M deal as a “f*** it, I’m old and I made my money and I want to win a Cup before I retire next year” kind of deal then sure. But I don’t know why he’d come here for that as opposed to Boston or Vegas.

The absolute max I’d be willing to go with Buck is 3 years, and as such I’m not going to give up anything close to what WIN wants. Again - if he’s on board and it doesn’t cost a ton in trade, sure. But I’m not going to shoot my load for a player who could get Bernier’d at any given moment.

 

[Hisch13r]

Can we please get Vitek to a sports psychologist stat. Fleury started going to one in 2013 after years of brutal playoff performances following the Cup. Then following that he's a good playoff goalie again and IIRC he said that was part of getting his game back on track.

 

[Bleedred]

Look, I take back the comment about Wheeler being an old, washed up sack of shit. Didn't realize he wasn't that bad last year. Perhaps I fell into the trap that the media was slandered him so much and then having the captaincy stripped, that I thought he was now a terrible player. I was wrong on that and he isn't a terrible player as of this year.

He's still about to turn 37 years old and I don't think he would be much of an upgrade here. Same with ROR, who isn't nearly as old, but I also would be worried he doesn't have much more left and I'm figuring him to get something similar to what Palat got last year and he's also probably gonna make a few more bucks because of his Conn Smythe 4 years ago.

I'm just not sure why players like this are wants by some posters here. It's not many people, but I see a couple of calls for these two players. Not sure why.

 

[Guttersniped]

He didn't have as bad of a season as I thought, but let's be serious. He's turning 37 years old. He's not as good as as Mercer or Bratt.

If you really expect him to be as good as them then I don't know what to tell you.

Bratt had 73 points in 82 games, Wheeler paced for 63 if he played 82. Bratt is better than Wheeler already.

Mercer was a 21 year old second year player and still wasn't outproduced by a whole lot by Wheeler and averaged over a half a minute less per game.

He's not the washed up sack of shit I initially made him out to be, but he's not as good as the players you mentioned and he's also not as good as Phil Kessel was in 2015 (before he started winning cups) either.

Like the rest of his team, Wheeler started strong. (Shooting 17.9% helped.)

And did not finish strong.

Wheeler had 55 points (16G 39A) but only 32 (7G 25A) were 5v5.

Wheeler is pretty slow. He doesn’t produce much unless he’s in the top six and he’s not an ideal six guy.

Historically he can go a cartoonishly long time without scoring and age isn’t going to help that sort of thing.

His leadership style seems to be telling everybody how much they suck lol.

 

[Normal Devil]

I'm up for adding Hellebuyck. The bottom line is that I have no faith in VV or Mac Black when it comes to winning big games in the playoffs. I like what I've seen from Schmid, but it's not a large enough sample size that I'd be ecstatic starting him against great teams in the playoffs. I think our window is open now .. quite possibly a standout goalie away from winning the cup. I feel Helle is on top of his game and should remain there for several years to come. If he'll work with the Devils a bit on contract I think it would be a great add. Shipping out Sharangovich and VV would almost equal the salary for Helle in 23-24. Obviously it would go up 2-3 mill in years to come, but the salary cap is supposed to rise as well.

 

[Bleedred]

Can we please get Vitek to a sports psychologist stat. Fleury started going to one in 2013 after years of brutal playoff performances following the Cup. Then following that he's a good playoff goalie again and IIRC he said that was part of getting his game back on track.

It's still an extremely small sample size, but it was also just insane that he couldn't have one good game here in the playoffs, if not just on accident. I think it was game 3 where they hit 3 or 4 posts on him and we won because we scored 8 goals and only 4 got past him, with 3 or 4 others hitting the post.

He did literally have one good playoff game against Florida last year for Washington, but he didn't have a single passable start here in the playoffs. It's still annoying that they didn't pull a Lemaire and go back to Schmid for game 4 and write it off as ''He's a young goalie and needed a break. He got us through the Rangers series, so we're going back to him today'' because there were a lot of signs in game 3 that Vitek shouldn't have been in there for game 4.

That said, I thought he played fine in the regular season. Nothing amazing, but solid enough that he wasn't costing us games, even though he wasn't winning many. His stretch between Christmas and all star break was pretty good and he was winning almost all of his games and not allowing more than 2 goals for the majority of games and the team was playing pretty meh in that 4-5 week stretch and he was still helping us get points/wins.

I don't know how I feel about him going forward. Luckily he's only signed for 2 more years, so last year isn't gonna buy him much more time here if he starts to stumble one of these last 2 years he's under contract for. Between that and the fact that he'll be 29 years old (and not 25 like Blackwood was coming into last year) when it ends, I doubt he's a goalie for the Devils by the 25-26 season.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm up for adding Hellebuyck. The bottom line is that I have no faith in VV or Mac Black when it comes to winning big games in the playoffs. I like what I've seen from Schmid, but it's not a large enough sample size that I'd be ecstatic starting him against great teams in the playoffs. I think our window is open now .. quite possibly a standout goalie away from winning the cup. I feel Helle is on top of his game and should remain there for several years to come. If he'll work with the Devils a bit on contract I think it would be a great add. Shipping out Sharangovich and VV would almost equal the salary for Helle in 23-24. Obviously it would go up 2-3 mill in years to come, but the salary cap is supposed to rise as well.

NJ looks to have a fairly long competitive window. How many years do you think Helle will be on top of his game? If he will sign for maybe five years that's a reasonable extension but I'm guessing he will want 8 in a sign and trade.

 

[Guadana]

Can @Guadana provide a bit of insight for those of us with a language barrier?

He is very thankful to KHL because it really helps him to develop his game to play against better players, he had trust from coaching stuff in MInsk and after some mistakes he found the groove. That was a strange covid time in NA, and practice in KHL helped him a lot. And relationships with his future wife.
He praised Gusev, but he admit NHL is a very physical league, more simple and fast, in KHL there are more plays with the puck, reason why Gusev wasn`t good fit for the system Devils played in the moment.
He is very polit, but as I understand he wasn`t exited about anti covid norms, when players should sit in the room without windows 24\7.
He was captain in Minsk, he was quiet captain in the locker room, he is calm person, but he understand the responsibility and proved it on the ice.
Said a couple of good things about Ovechkin how good he is as a person, how he is helping to young teammates, he always give a chat to young russian and belorussian players. How easy person he is but he is a great example for every player from ex USSR. Yegor likes his game but doesn`t like to play against.

Hischier and Hughes are leaders on the ice, Haula and Smith are talking person in the locker room. Different players can take a word.

He's thrilled with locker room a lot, good team, everybody play for each other.
He explained the fight against Schneider - Panarin tried to hit him and bleed his own leeps. Rangers started to use Reaves against Sharangovich after that. He was trying to cover his partner in the next game against rangers. He isn`t exited about his fight)

He likes the team and the place, he wants to spend his career in new jersey and he is trying to not listen rumours about his trade for Meier or for other players.

Later there will be a second part.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm up for adding Hellebuyck. The bottom line is that I have no faith in VV or Mac Black when it comes to winning big games in the playoffs. I like what I've seen from Schmid, but it's not a large enough sample size that I'd be ecstatic starting him against great teams in the playoffs. I think our window is open now .. quite possibly a standout goalie away from winning the cup. I feel Helle is on top of his game and should remain there for several years to come. If he'll work with the Devils a bit on contract I think it would be a great add. Shipping out Sharangovich and VV would almost equal the salary for Helle in 23-24. Obviously it would go up 2-3 mill in years to come, but the salary cap is supposed to rise as well.

I don't think you have to worry about Mac Black playing here again.

Especially after they wouldn't even give him a start in the playoffs when both goalies were struggling against Carolina.

 

[Hisch13r]

I'm up for adding Hellebuyck. The bottom line is that I have no faith in VV or Mac Black when it comes to winning big games in the playoffs. I like what I've seen from Schmid, but it's not a large enough sample size that I'd be ecstatic starting him against great teams in the playoffs. I think our window is open now .. quite possibly a standout goalie away from winning the cup. I feel Helle is on top of his game and should remain there for several years to come. If he'll work with the Devils a bit on contract I think it would be a great add. Shipping out Sharangovich and VV would almost equal the salary for Helle in 23-24. Obviously it would go up 2-3 mill in years to come, but the salary cap is supposed to rise as well.

I've basically been treating Yegor as if he's already gone so we'd be adding around 2.75 this year going from Vitek to Hellebuyck. After everyone is re-signed that'd leave us with probably like 4-5ish mil. I want to add 2 forwards and a D but this would probably limit us to 1 and 1 and then needing one of Clarke or Holtz (if he's not moved) to grab that top 9 spot or you're left with having to play Boqvist there again.

 

[My3Sons]

He is very thankful to KHL because it really helps him to develop his game to play against better players, he had trust from coaching stuff in MInsk and after some mistakes he found the groove. That was a strange covid time in NA, and practice in KHL helped him a lot. And relationships with his future wife.
He praised Gusev, but he admit NHL is a very physical league, more simple and fast, in KHL there are more plays with the puck, reason why Gusev wasn`t good fit for the system Devils played in the moment.
He is very polit, but as I understand he wasn`t exited about anti covid norms, when players should sit in the room without windows 24\7.
He was captain in Minsk, he was quiet captain in the locker room, he is calm person, but he understand the responsibility and proved it on the ice.
Said a couple of good things about Ovechkin how good he is as a person, how he is helping to young teammates, he always give a chat to young russian and belorussian players. How easy person he is but he is a great example for every player from ex USSR. Yegor likes his game but doesn`t like to play against.

Hischier and Hughes are leaders on the ice, Haula and Smith are talking person in the locker room. Different players can take a word.

He's thrilled with locker room a lot, good team, everybody play for each other.
He explained the fight against Schneider - Panarin tried to hit him and bleed his own leeps. Rangers started to use Reaves against Sharangovich after that. He was trying to cover his partner in the next game against rangers. He isn`t exited about his fight)

He likes the team and the place, he wants to spend his career in new jersey and he is trying to not listen rumours about his trade for Meier or for other players.

Later there will be a second part.

thanks for sharing that. He seems like a really good kid. I'd be happy if he had a path forward with NJ.

 

[Hisch13r]

It's still an extremely small sample size, but it was also just insane that he couldn't have one good game here in the playoffs, if not just on accident. I think it was game 3 where they hit 3 or 4 posts on him and we won because we scored 8 goals and only 4 got past him, with 3 or 4 others hitting the post.

He did literally have one good playoff game against Florida last year for Washington, but he didn't have a single passable start here in the playoffs. It's still annoying that they didn't pull a Lemaire and go back to Schmid for game 4 and write it off as ''He's a young goalie and needed a break. He got us through the Rangers series, so we're going back to him today'' because there were a lot of signs in game 3 that Vitek shouldn't have been in there for game 4.

That said, I thought he played fine in the regular season. Nothing amazing, but solid enough that he wasn't costing us games, even though he wasn't winning many. His stretch between Christmas and all star break was pretty good and he was winning almost all of his games and not allowing more than 2 goals for the majority of games and the team was playing pretty meh in that 4-5 week stretch and he was still helping us get points/wins.

I don't know how I feel about him going forward. Luckily he's only signed for 2 more years, so last year isn't gonna buy him much more time here if he starts to stumble one of these last 2 years he's under contract for. Between that and the fact that he'll be 29 years old (and not 25 like Blackwood was coming into last year) when it ends, I doubt he's a goalie for the Devils by the 25-26 season.

We don't even need him to be something special. Just maintain his regular season level of play which was like slightly above average rather than god awful ECHLer and that's good enough for this team to compete.

 

[Guttersniped]

I have zero interest in Blake Wheeler and very little interest in Buck, unless they’re too cheap to say no to.

If Wheeler were to get bought out and sign here on a 1 year 2M deal as a “f*** it, I’m old and I made my money and I want to win a Cup before I retire next year” kind of deal then sure. But I don’t know why he’d come here for that as opposed to Boston or Vegas.

The absolute max I’d be willing to go with Buck is 3 years, and as such I’m not going to give up anything close to what WIN wants. Again - if he’s on board and it doesn’t cost a ton in trade, sure. But I’m not going to shoot my load for a player who could get Bernier’d at any given moment.

There’s zero chance Hellebuyck takes a short deal so people need to stop pretending that’s a thing.

A sign and trade presumably means 8 years. The massive term does mean the AAV would be easier to negotiate down but the term means it doesn’t really matter (to me at least).

And if we managed to somehow negotiate less term, because Fitz tells him he’s not signing him to a contract that ends when he’s 39, it won’t be that much less term.

6 years would be miraculous. And that deal would end when he’s 37. And it might be harder to get AAV down then.

And Jets definitely are going to try to get as much as they can from these trades. Goalie trades are hard to gauge but this is an elite goalie who will be extended so the demand is going to be for more than what Kuemper got(1st, 3rd, Timmons).

 

[Normal Devil]

NJ looks to have a fairly long competitive window. How many years do you think Helle will be on top of his game? If he will sign for maybe five years that's a reasonable extension but I'm guessing he will want 8 in a sign and trade.

I'd say Helle is good for another 4 years .. maybe more. You never know when injury will strike, but he's a bit of an alien, and would seem to be on another level when it comes to durability. An 8 year deal would be dumb probably, but a 4-5 year deal would be quite workable. I guess it depends on how bad that Helle wants to play for a good, young cup contender.

 

[Forge]

 

[Hisch13r]

I'd say Helle is good for another 4 years .. maybe more. You never know when injury will strike, but he's a bit of an alien, and would seem to be on another level when it comes to durability. An 8 year deal would be dumb probably, but a 4-5 year deal would be quite workable. I guess it depends on how bad that Helle wants to play for a good, young cup contender.

Sure 4-5 years is workable for us but he'd be leaving literal dozens of millions on the table. It's so hard to see someone doing that.

 

[Normal Devil]

Sure 4-5 years is workable for us but he'd be leaving literal dozens of millions on the table. It's so hard to see someone doing that.

Yeah .. we'll see what Fitz does. This is a top line goalie and you don't often get a crack at one.

 

[Guadana]

thanks for sharing that. He seems like a really good kid. I'd be happy if he had a path forward with NJ.

I think he should understand the part of the business. And anyway he will got good money, less than he could, and it`s a great opportunity to earn more money and more important role on the ice. In our team or in another.

 

[Devils731]

When the Devils show how much front loading is in the newest offer:

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

"Really grinding away at it" to me reads like the deal is close with broad strokes agreed to but a lot of discussion on salary/bonus structure year by year and possibly NTCs.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Oh yeah get that money lines up JUUUUUUST right to sign the youth in waves and sustain a decade of a power roster.

 

[Nico Hischier]

I think my max is like 8x4 or 7x5. I'm not taking a hardline stance on Schmid one way or the other. The majority of goalies are meh that can have runs of being great and then runs of being poor. I think it's much more likely he's that type of guy than a bonafide high end goalie you can rely on year over year.

Trading Vitek + sharangovich + for hellebuyck and signing him to 4x8 would be sweet. Think that would end when Nico’s contract ends. But that’s probably a long shot and probably not gonna happen.

 

[Dylan9z9]

Like the rest of his team, Wheeler started strong. (Shooting 17.9% helped.)
View attachment 719757
And did not finish strong.
View attachment 719758

Wheeler had 55 points (16G 39A) but only 32 (7G 25A) were 5v5.

Wheeler is pretty slow. He doesn’t produce much unless he’s in the top six and he’s not an ideal six guy.

Historically he can go a cartoonishly long time without scoring and age isn’t going to help that sort of thing.

His leadership style seems to be telling everybody how much they suck lol.

f*** that guy he's practically in a wheel chair

 

[My3Sons]

f*** that guy he's practically in a wheel chair

Someday he will be 50. If he gets that far I'll be impressed if he isn't a drooling invalid wearing Depends and telling anyone who will listen that he's sure the dogs are plotting against him.

 

[Nubmer6]

Someday he will be 50. If he gets that far I'll be impressed if he isn't a drooling invalid wearing Depends and telling anyone who will listen that he's sure the dogs are plotting against him.

No, no, no.


We're talking about Wheeler, not you