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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

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John Gibson is Cory Schneider 2.0 and this is coming from someone who loved prime Gibson. He's utterly toast. Guy has gotten outplayed by Anthony Stolarz and his backups pretty consistently on the same awful Ducks teams
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
John Gibson is Cory Schneider 2.0 and this is coming from someone who loved prime Gibson. He's utterly toast. Guy has gotten outplayed by Anthony Stolarz and his backups pretty consistently on the same awful Ducks teams
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I've been making the Schneider comparison for a year or two now. Only he declined at an even younger age.

You can convince me that John Gibson is not completely terrible and isn't actually one of the worst goalies in the league and that the Ducks make him look worse.

However, you can't convince me that he's anything better than a plain old, ordinary, average goaltender in the year 2023.

You cannot convince me he's elite or even a particularly good goalie, like those junkies (they've gotta be junkies) that think he's so good that if you want him, they should have to retain little to nothing, as well as get back something(s) of value from your team's roster to take on this wonderful asset that will help you win games and potentially even a championship for someone like the Leafs. Especially when he's on a contract that has 4 more years left (5 before last year) and is basically in the second tier salary for goalies, where only Bobrovsky and Price (LTIRement) are in the salary tier above.

This sentiment has somewhat died down this offseason, but it was rampant last offseason.

Gibson has played even worse than his backups half the time, which I've acknowledged could be a usage thing, like Corey Scwhab ''Outplaying'' Marty's 73 games in his 11 games of action. If you gave Stolarz, Dostal and ancient Ryan Miller the number of games he plays per year, I don't actually expect them to do better than Gibson, but I also don't expect them to do a whole lot worse and in limited action in comparison to Gibson, they don't do any worse and sometimes have done even better.

Gibson should not be an option here. Just get that out of your head.
 
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Bleedred said:
I've been making the Schneider comparison for a year or two now. Only he declined at an even younger age.

You can convince me that John Gibson is not completely terrible and isn't actually one of the worst goalies in the league and that the Ducks make him look worse.

However, you can't convince me that he's anything better than a plain old, ordinary, average goaltender in the year 2023.

You cannot convince me he's elite or even a particularly good goalie, like those junkies (they've gotta be junkies) that think he's so good that if you want him, they should have to retain little to nothing, as well as get back something(s) of value from your team's roster to take on this wonderful asset that will help you win games and potentially even a championship for someone like the Leafs. Especially when he's on a contract that has 4 more years left (5 before last year) and is basically in the second tier salary for goalies, where only Bobrovsky and Price (LTIRement) are in the salary tier above.

This sentiment has somewhat died down this offseason, but it was rampant last offseason.

Gibson has played even worse than his backups half the time, which I've acknowledged could be a usage thing, like Corey Scwhab ''Outplaying'' Marty's 73 games in his 11 games of action. If you gave Stolarz, Dostal and ancient Ryan Miller the number of games he plays per year, I don't actually expect them to do better than Gibson, but I also don't expect them to do a whole lot worse and in limited action in comparison to Gibson, they don't do any worse and sometimes have done even better.

Gibson should not be an option here. Just get that out of your head.
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Yeah, a team like us can't take a flyer on someone like him. If we're making a move, it has to be for someone proven in net. I can see a team like CBJ or say Detroit, if Elvis and Husso falter this year, as places where Gibson can go to. We should avoid him like the plague.
 
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TL/DR version

Gibson is now an average goalie at the absolute best. Goalies of Gibson's current caliber and ability are not worth $6.3 million for the next 4 years.

Goalies of Gibson's current caliber and ability aren't really worth FOUR more years at almost any salary that isn't extremely cap friendly. Maybe at the Kochetkov salary (which is like $2 million and I think he's also signed for 4 years) you might be able to justify 4 more years of that.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
Yeah, a team like us can't take a flyer on someone like him. If we're making a move, it has to be for someone proven in net. I can see a team like CBJ or say Detroit, if Elvis and Husso falter this year, as places where Gibson can go to. We should avoid him like the plague.
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I almost expect Detroit to either trade for Hellebuyck or sign him next offseason if he isn't traded somewhere else and re-signed there first. He's even from Michigan, which doesn't mean he's gonna wanna necessarily sign there and wanna play there, but he might.

Husso is definitely looking like a one year wonder, which I kind of expected would be the case before last season. I'm pretty happy we didn't trade for and sign him last offseason. Even if you believe he'd play as well as Vitek if he were here and not on the shit hole Red Wings, I'm pretty sure his cap hit is about a million more than Vitek's or maybe even more than a million higher?

I'm not sure what happens to Gibson. Pittsburgh seemed like they could potentially swoop in, since we know Dubas has a penchant and liking for BAD goalies, as evidenced by the multi-year deal for Mrazek and acquiring Murray's long since depleted cremains in back to back offseasons. Then he re-signed Jarry instead and now that's out of the question.
 
Bleedred said:
I almost expect Detroit to either trade for Hellebuyck or sign him next offseason if he isn't traded somewhere else and re-signed there first. He's even from Michigan, which doesn't mean he's gonna wanna necessarily sign there and wanna play there, but he might.

Husso is definitely looking like a one year wonder, which I kind of expected would be the case before last season. I'm pretty happy we didn't trade for and sign him last offseason. Even if you believe he'd play as well as Vitek if he were here and not on the shit hole Red Wings, I'm pretty sure his cap hit is about a million more than Vitek's or maybe even more than a million higher?
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No shot he goes there. Also no shot Yzerman signs a big money goalie, he probably rather admit defeat with Cossa than do that but it also depends how desperate Detroit is and how Husso plays.
 
ZachaFlockaFlame said:
No shot he goes there. Also no shot Yzerman signs a big money goalie, he probably rather admit defeat with Cossa than do that but it also depends how desperate Detroit is and how Husso plays.
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I wouldn't write it off. This offseason feels like Yzerman is doing whatever he can to squeak into a wild card spot, even though he should still be tanking the f*** out of that thing,

Why don't you think he would sign a big money goalie? He gives money to all these jabroni's like Chiarot (I know they're cheaper than Hellebuyck's next contract) and Compher and signs all these guys to contracts that are probably more than he should.
 
Bleedred said:
I wouldn't write it off. This offseason feels like Yzerman is doing whatever he can to squeak into a wild card spot, even though he should still be tanking the f*** out of that thing,

Why don't you think he would sign a big money goalie? He gives money to all these jabroni's like Chiarot (I know they're cheaper than Hellebuyck's next contract) and Compher and signs all these guys to contracts that are probably more than he should.
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I think Yzerman is in the school of drafting of a goalie or not paying them much money to build their roster. He did it multiple times in TB with acquiring Bishop and signing him to like 4.9x6 and then drafted Vasy in 2012. Similar thinking with signing Husso + drafting Cossa. Now obviously, Bishop and Vasy duo are far superior but when a GM shows his spots and what he likes to do they don't to veer off of it much especially in the sport of hockey. I think if Hellebuyck gets to UFA, it's going to depend a lot of where certain teams are. We could circle back onto him if Vanecek implodes again in the playoffs, CBJ could go to him if Elvis implodes, Buffalo could go to him if Levi implodes. I think he's going to sign with a team that's ascending and that goalie piece is the last missing piece, Detroit doesn't seem like that to me. They still need Kasper or Danielson to become a 2C, Raymond needs to have a bounce back year and they need a ton on the backend to go right for Hellebuyck to be confident in signing there imo.
 
Bleedred said:
TL/DR version

Gibson is now an average goalie at the absolute best. Goalies of Gibson's current caliber and ability are not worth $6.3 million for the next 4 years.

Goalies of Gibson's current caliber and ability aren't really worth FOUR more years at almost any salary that isn't extremely cap friendly. Maybe at the Kochetkov salary (which is like $2 million and I think he's also signed for 4 years) you might be able to justify 4 more years of that.
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So maybe NJ can set its sights on a younger goalie with some upside? I know it’s a long shot but McKenzie Blackwood looks like a good candidate for a change of scenery trade. He has a modest cap hit and you figure SJ would be open to moving him since they are likely to have to rebuild at this point? What would you offer for him? I’m thinking goalies aren’t as valued as forwards so maybe they’d take Nemec or Luke Hughes and a first?
 
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My building manager knows what's up
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A goalie isn’t a skater that you hide in ways if you make a bet on someone and it is wrong. Gibson has 4 years left on his deal. His numbers have been downright bad the last few years. Even if you want to bet that is a result of the team in front of him, there is a big enough risk that it isn’t. And if it isn’t entirely the team in front of him that means you are faced with having to eat dead money for 3 to 6 years to get out of the deal if you are wrong (even at the Ducks keeping 50%).

One year left on a deal and I understand the gamble. 4 years is too much exposure if the team is wrong.
 
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Anyone ever check out that 3ice stuff? It's at prudential Wednesday and the Devils offered free tickets so debating going.
 
Satans Hockey said:
Anyone ever check out that 3ice stuff? It's at prudential Wednesday and the Devils offered free tickets so debating going.
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Found it channel surfing a few times. If you need a couple hours of entertainment, I suppose the price is right. Rosters don't look too interesting. Bobby Farnham and Joe Whitney were former Devils. Shane Harper (from my hometown) and Eamon McAdam were former Devils farmhands. Jeremy Brodeur is on one of the teams, so maybe a decent chance Marty will be in the building in case you wanted to stalk him for a photo/autograph?
 
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My Oh Meier said:
Gibson is an overpriced version of Blackwood.

I like the idea of Ullmark if Hellebuyck falls through
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I don't think Gibson is quite as bad as Blackwood, but only because Blackwood is probably the second worst goalie in the NHL, not including third string guys that are mostly for the AHL and get called up to the NHL when there's injuries.

The only one definitely worse if Jonathan Quick. He can't play at this level anymore. There's guys that are just bad and suck (Blackwood) and then there's washed up guys that badly need to hang them up and that's Quick.

Gibson isn't as bad as Blackwood and still performs better on a MUCH worse team. But Gibson also isn't worth his contract, just for the term alone. Never mind the dollar amount, which is probably in the second highest tier for goalie contracts currently, with Bobrovsky being on a tier of his own. Price used to be on that tier, but all indications are that he's in LTIRement.
 
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