Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Devilsfan92]

Fighting for a wild card spot might be interesting

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Fighting for a wild card spot might be interesting

So you expect worse than 2021-22 goaltending?

 

[devilsblood]

Interestingly, against our collective memories, Vitek was actually quite strong down the stretch of the reg season.

Last 19 games of the season, Vitek posted a .925 in 11 gp's, vs Schmid's .912 in 6, and Blackwoods .863 in 5.

It was a stretch of games just prior from Feb1 through March 7th where he posted a .870 save% in 9 gp's. Blackwood and Schmid only played 3 games each but posted something like .926 and .952 respectively.

Vitek of course was strong to start the season with a .917 in his first 32 gp's which brought us to the start of Feb.

So really only a handful of games in the late middle of the season, not the homestretch, are what sunk his #'s a bit.

His playoff #'s were terrible though, as they were in Wash as well. And while Schmid did have some games vs Carolina where he was pulled, he did post very good #'s overall.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Interestingly, against our collective memories, Vitek was actually quite strong down the stretch of the reg season.

Last 19 games of the season, Vitek posted a .925 in 11 gp's, vs Schmid's .912 in 6, and Blackwoods .863 in 5.

It was a stretch of games just prior from Feb1 through March 7th where he posted a .870 save% in 9 gp's. Blackwood and Schmid only played 3 games each but posted something like .926 and .952 respectively.

Vitek of course was strong to start the season with a .917 in his first 32 gp's which brought us to the start of Feb.

So really only a handful of games in the late middle of the season, not the homestretch, are what sunk his #'s a bit.

His playoff #'s were terrible though, as they were in Wash as well. And while Schmid did have some games vs Carolina where he was pulled, he did post very good #'s overall.

GSAA tells a different story. Schmid was clearly the better goaltender last year both in the regular season and the playoffs. I think it's telling the Devils are looking for a goaltender upgrade, Vanecek would be the goaltender going the other way.

 

[devilsblood]

GSAA tells a different story. Schmid was clearly the better goaltender last year both in the regular season and the playoffs. I think it's telling the Devils are looking for a goaltender upgrade, Vanecek would be the goaltender going the other way.

I wasn't really comparing Vitek to Schmid. My point was that Vitek finished the season strong. The board narrative was he finished poorly, he didn't, there was a swoon in Feb into early March, but he was very good after that.

Without seeing the splits for GSAA, I'll assume just based of save% that Vitek fared better then Schmid in the final 19 games in that regard as well.

But overall? Yeah, Schmid put up better #'s. Significantly less games, but much better #'s.

 

[Guttersniped]

GSAA tells a different story. Schmid was clearly the better goaltender last year both in the regular season and the playoffs. I think it's telling the Devils are looking for a goaltender upgrade, Vanecek would be the goaltender going the other way.

Schmid had 14 starts, he’s a very young goalie and his season was a bit up and down too.

He got sent down after giving up 3 goals on 7 shots in Buffalo on 3/24. He had some rough outings in Utica at the end of the year too, including one with 8 GA.

I actually thought he hit a wall at the end of the season so I was more than pleasantly surprised with his playoff performances. He just turned 23 in May though, he’s a baby goalie.

Obviously if we trade for a goalie, unless it’s a very cheap one, Vanecek has has to go just to make the salaries work.

 

[Bleedred]

and Blackwoods .863 in 5.

 

[Bleedred]

When is the development camp?

It hasn’t gotten much advertisement, but it’s supposed to be the 10th-14th of this month.

So it’s starting tomorrow. Not sure if that’s the first day of on-ice or just the day they report.

I figure we should get a roster for it at some point today.

 

[Bleedred]

When was that last shutout against Carolina at home, afternoon game I think? That was a brilliant game and was his apogee.

Gosh, goaltending is a thankless position. You are only as good as your last couple games, so exposed, every mistake crucial, the hero or the scapegoat. Few positions in sports more crucial (starting pitcher in game 7 of a series maybe ?).

While I agree that it’s a thankless position and you’re only as good as your last couple of games, it also goes the other way sometimes.

A very decrepit and broken down Jonathan Quick, who has been bad for 4 of the last 5 years now was traded to two different teams at the trade deadline this year, and another team (LOL Rags) couldn’t sign him fast enough on July 1st. We see a lot of bad goalies keep getting jobs, despite years and years of poor play. Often times consecutively. Someone actually traded for Blackwood, who wouldn’t have been tendered anyway if not for the trade, and actually gave him a TWO year deal for well over $2 million per year. They could have gotten him for cheaper than that and likely on a one year if they let him go to UFA. And he’s literally been bad since just after the turn of the decade.

One example of you’re only as good as your last couple of games (really your last season) that we saw this free agent day was Korpisalo getting a 4 year deal for like $4 million per. Korpisalo had an up year in 22-23, despite more bad years than good years in his career. And his 22-23 was literally the difference in him quite possibly washing out of the league to Europe for the rest of his playing career, and the 4 year deal he got on July 1st. Talk about a real swing year.

 

[glenwo2]

Is Kevin Bahl re-signed yet?

I didn't notice.

 

[devilsblood]

While I agree that it’s a thankless position and you’re only as good as your last couple of games, it also goes the other way sometimes.

A very decrepit and broken down Jonathan Quick, who has been bad for 4 of the last 5 years now was traded to two different teams at the trade deadline this year, and another team (LOL Rags) couldn’t sign him fast enough on July 1st. We see a lot of bad goalies keep getting jobs, despite years and years of poor play. Often times consecutively. Someone actually traded for Blackwood, who wouldn’t have been tendered anyway if not for the trade, and actually gave him a TWO year deal for well over $2 million per year. They could have gotten him for cheaper than that and likely on a one year if they let him go to UFA. And he’s literally been bad since just after the turn of the decade.

One example of you’re only as good as your last couple of games (really your last season) that we saw this free agent day was Korpisalo getting a 4 year deal for like $4 million per. Korpisalo had an up year in 22-23, despite more bad years than good years in his career. And his 22-23 was literally the difference in him quite possibly washing out of the league to Europe for the rest of his playing career, and the 4 year deal he got on July 1st. Talk about a real swing year.

One thing your posts typically highlight, is that you overestimate the number of "good" goaltending in the league, and understestimate the demand for even below average goal tending.

Korpisalo(who has a great profile pic on hockeydb btw) was not going back to Europe. Much like a team signing an older goalie who hasn't had good #'s in years. Much like a team trading for Blackwood's rights. There is a demand for guy of Korpisalo's level, even before his very solid 22-23 season.

Teams need two goalies, and it's smart to have a 3rd guy in the minors that they can call up in case of injury. Consider this: 66 goalies played at least 1000 minutes this year. 26 of them had save percentages under 90%.

11 more played at least 600 minutes(going for 10 gp's here, and this opens the door to Schmid) and that brings the total of goalies who posted under 90% save percentage to 33.


The bar needs to be lowered in terms of goalies we think don't belong in the league.

 

[Guttersniped]

One thing your posts typically highlight, is that you overestimate the number of "good" goaltending in the league, and understestimate the demand for even below average goal tending.

Korpisalo(who has a great profile pic on hockeydb btw) was not going back to Europe. Much like a team signing an older goalie who hasn't had good #'s in years. Much like a team trading for Blackwood's rights.

Teams need two goalies, and it's smart to have a 3rd guy in the minors that they can call up in case of injury. 66 goalies played at least 1000 minutes this year. 26 of them had save %'s under 90%.

11 more played at least 600 minutes(going for 10 gp's here, and this opens the door to Schmid) and that brings the total of goalies who posted under 90% save percentage to 33.


The bar needs to be lowered in terms of goalies we think don't belong in the league.

Fitz definitely signed Erik Källgren because he’s waiver exempt, losing Wedgewood after only 8 games in the 2021-22 obviously scarred him.

 

[Triumph]

Fitz definitely signed Erik Källgren because he’s waiver exempt, losing Wedgewood after only 8 games in the 2021-22 obviously scarred him.

I know capfriendly lists him as waiver exempt but I don't fully understand how he is, as he signed an NHL deal in 2019 at age 22. The only thing I can think is that having his deal terminated in late 2019 means that 2020-21 does not count as a year for the purposes of waiver calculation.

 

[devilsblood]

Fitz definitely signed Erik Källgren because he’s waiver exempt, losing Wedgewood after only 8 games in the 2021-22 obviously scarred him.

Maybe? But he's puts up lousy #'s wherever he's been, including with the Marlies last year. There were multiple goalies on that team putting up significantly better #'s. Though he was their best guy the year prior, and did get the most GP in this years playoffs(not sure what happened with Woll who had a good reg season, but was bombed in one playoff game).

I guess it's better to have someone than no one, and yeah, losing Wedge does highlight the waiver consideration, but I'd still like to see someone better in Utica as a 3rd option than Kallgren.

But one clear positive to signing Kallgren is this association.

 

[Triumph]

Vis a vis both the sex cauldron and the Devils or Utica adding another goalie (without subtracting one), I think they closed that place down.

They have 5 under NHL contract with Jeremy Brodeur on an AHL deal. I know Daws is probably out until early 2024, but they will just make do with Kallgren and Brodeur/Brennan until then.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Vis a vis both the sex cauldron and the Devils or Utica adding another goalie (without subtracting one), I think they closed that place down.

They have 5 under NHL contract with Jeremy Brodeur on an AHL deal. I know Daws is probably out until early 2024, but they will just make do with Kallgren and Brodeur/Brennan until then.

Hmm I must have missed a few pages in this off-season's lore

 

[Bleedred]

One thing your posts typically highlight, is that you overestimate the number of "good" goaltending in the league, and understestimate the demand for even below average goal tending.

Korpisalo(who has a great profile pic on hockeydb btw) was not going back to Europe. Much like a team signing an older goalie who hasn't had good #'s in years. Much like a team trading for Blackwood's rights. There is a demand for guy of Korpisalo's level, even before his very solid 22-23 season.

Teams need two goalies, and it's smart to have a 3rd guy in the minors that they can call up in case of injury. Consider this: 66 goalies played at least 1000 minutes this year. 26 of them had save percentages under 90%.

11 more played at least 600 minutes(going for 10 gp's here, and this opens the door to Schmid) and that brings the total of goalies who posted under 90% save percentage to 33.


The bar needs to be lowered in terms of goalies we think don't belong in the league.

I think this is because goaltending is not at an all-time low I don't think (maybe it is? Hard to say, but it's probably been worse) it is nowhere near where it was 10 years ago, which was probably when it was at it's peak, at least over the last say several decades.

So guys like Korpisalo and really bad older goalies like Elliott and Martin Jones and Craig Anderson and even Greiss and Halak to an extent were still getting signed. At least as of last offseason they are. I don't think Elliott or Jones have been signed anywhere and Anderson announced his retirement the night of his final game played. Elliott is 38 and may be done. Jones could be signed later on. Greiss is another one that's old and might be done. Halak also.

So there's way more BAD goalies in the league now and way less GOOD goalies in the league now. Even the names that are still active that were elite 8 or 10 years ago or at least were still active as of the season before last, have not been elite in quite some time. Many of them fell off and declined at an earlier age. Like Cory Schneider, Carey Price, Braden Holtby, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jonathan Quick, All started declining before they got too old. Some even before they hit 30. Rask appeared to be declining, but then had a resurgence later in his career (probably because of Bruce Cassidy, just like Halak) until he started having hip problems and didn't play past 34. Holtby didn't play after 32 and it's pretty safe to assume he's done and never coming back, especially since it was injuries that prevented him from signing a year ago. Price and Bob both had hot playoff runs in the twilight of their careers, but they weren't really good goalies anymore, much like 2012 Brodeur. Schneider pretty much committed NHL career suicide by continuing to sign with Lou to play in Bridgeport, while the Islanders have had the most luck among goalie health in the entire league since he's signed there. He should have easily been able to get into NHL games at some point (and not just one measly game) with more organizations than not, particularly in the 20-21 and 21-22 seasons with all the guys who ended up on the covid protocol lists. Fleury got better into his 30's (the first half of his 30's), but had his share of back and forth seasons and clunkers throughout his 20's. And then very weirdly, Craig Anderson and Mike Smith played NHL games several years more recently than Henrik Lundqvist did. I would have lost money on that, although Lundqvist would probably still be getting deals even today if not for his heart condition. He probably didn't get to go out on his own terms.

And then good ole' Matt Murray looked to be having one of the greatest starts to an NHL career for a goalie maybe ever, then falls apart around age 25.

So yeah. a lot more mediocre to bad goalies with full time jobs in the league and much fewer average and really good ones. Even the ones that aren't really good sometimes get overrated because they play on bad teams and/or used to be good or won a cup as a starter. Gibson and particularly Binnington being the best example of that.

And then you got Jake ''Well, you actually could argue that he would get picked before Nico Hischier in a 2017 redraft'' Oettinger, who got hella-overrated because of one monster 7 game playoff series (That he didn't even win) and because he's pretty young, then he goes out there and looks like a blowup doll in his team's run to the conference finals this past year.

I could keep going, but I'll probably stop there. In conclusion, I think you've made a good point, but I also think there are certain lines that should be drawn. Like Jonathan Quick shouldn't be playing anymore. He's even worse than someone like Martin Jones these days (as if that's possible) or Halak, but he gets signed because of what he USED to be and not what he currently is. So there are some guys I understand why they still get chances, but someone like Quick just shouldn't be in any kind of demand in 2023. I would argue Schneider should get a chance before him, but once again, he committed NHL career suicide because he kept signing with Lou.

 

[britdevil]

Vis a vis both the sex cauldron and the Devils or Utica adding another goalie (without subtracting one), I think they closed that place down.

They have 5 under NHL contract with Jeremy Brodeur on an AHL deal. I know Daws is probably out until early 2024, but they will just make do with Kallgren and Brodeur/Brennan until then.

Jeremy Brodeur f***ing stinks. Like, really terrible player. Guy has no business being near an AHL contract.

Nepotism at it's worst.

 

[Devs3cups]

Is Kevin Bahl re-signed yet?

I didn't notice.

Not yet!

 

[devilsblood]

I think this is because goaltending is not at an all-time low I don't think (maybe it is? Hard to say, but it's probably been worse) it is nowhere near where it was 10 years ago, which was probably when it was at it's peak, at least over the last say several decades.

So guys like Korpisalo and really bad older goalies like Elliott and Martin Jones and Craig Anderson and even Greiss and Halak to an extent were still getting signed. At least as of last offseason they are. I don't think Elliott or Jones have been signed anywhere and Anderson announced his retirement the night of his final game played. Elliott is 38 and may be done. Jones could be signed later on. Greiss is another one that's old and might be done. Halak also.

So there's way more BAD goalies in the league now and way less GOOD goalies in the league now. Even the names that are still active that were elite 8 or 10 years ago or at least were still active as of the season before last, have not been elite in quite some time. Many of them fell off and declined at an earlier age. Like Cory Schneider, Carey Price, Braden Holtby, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jonathan Quick, All started declining before they got too old. Some even before they hit 30. Rask appeared to be declining, but then had a resurgence later in his career (probably because of Bruce Cassidy, just like Halak) until he started having hip problems and didn't play past 34. Holtby didn't play after 32 and it's pretty safe to assume he's done and never coming back, especially since it was injuries that prevented him from signing a year ago. Price and Bob both had hot playoff runs in the twilight of their careers, but they weren't really good goalies anymore, much like 2012 Brodeur. Schneider pretty much committed NHL career suicide by continuing to sign with Lou to play in Bridgeport, while the Islanders have had the most luck among goalie health in the entire league since he's signed there. He should have easily been able to get into NHL games at some point (and not just one measly game) with more organizations than not, particularly in the 20-21 and 21-22 seasons with all the guys who ended up on the covid protocol lists. Fleury got better into his 30's (the first half of his 30's), but had his share of back and forth seasons and clunkers throughout his 20's. And then very weirdly, Craig Anderson and Mike Smith played NHL games several years more recently than Henrik Lundqvist did. I would have lost money on that, although Lundqvist would probably still be getting deals even today if not for his heart condition. He probably didn't get to go out on his own terms.

And then good ole' Matt Murray looked to be having one of the greatest starts to an NHL career for a goalie maybe ever, then falls apart around age 25.

So yeah. a lot more mediocre to bad goalies with full time jobs in the league and much fewer average and really good ones. Even the ones that aren't really good sometimes get overrated because they play on bad teams and/or used to be good or won a cup as a starter. Gibson and particularly Binnington being the best example of that.

And then you got Jake ''Well, you actually could argue that he would get picked before Nico Hischier in a 2017 redraft'' Oettinger, who got hella-overrated because of one monster 7 game playoff series (That he didn't even win) and because he's pretty young, then he goes out there and looks like a blowup doll in his team's run to the conference finals this past year.

I could keep going, but I'll probably stop there. In conclusion, I think you've made a good point, but I also think there are certain lines that should be drawn. Like Jonathan Quick shouldn't be playing anymore. He's even worse than someone like Martin Jones these days (as if that's possible) or Halak, but he gets signed because of what he USED to be and not what he currently is. So there are some guys I understand why they still get chances, but someone like Quick just shouldn't be in any kind of demand in 2023. I would argue Schneider should get a chance before him, but once again, he committed NHL career suicide because he kept signing with Lou.

Guys like Quick and Elliot would be nice fits for the Devils as a guy they stash in the minors. Problem is, at this stage in their careers, they aren't signing up for that. (It does look odd that the Rag's would sign Quick to be their #2. Why not bring back Halak?)

Which makes Schneider's willingness to do so, so intriguing. I guess he was hoping for an injury call up and one last gasp? And maybe he just loves the sport that much? But for a multi millionaire, to be bussing around the northeast all winter? It's definitely rare, and imo admirable. I'd prefer him over Kallgren I think.

 

[devilsblood]

Jeremy Brodeur f***ing stinks. Like, really terrible player. Guy has no business being near an AHL contract.

Nepotism at it's worst.

Explains why he played in the EIHL(England league) last year. Is he really taking up a AHL contract?

 

[Bleedred]

Guys like Quick and Elliot would be nice fits for the Devils as a guy they stash in the minors. Problem is, at this stage in their careers, they aren't signing up for that. (It does look odd that the Rag's would sign Quick to be their #2. Why not bring back Halak?)

Which makes Schneider's willingness to do so, so intriguing. I guess he was hoping for an injury call up and one last gasp? And maybe he just loves the sport that much? But for a multi millionaire, to be bussing around the northeast all winter? It's definitely rare, and imo admirable. I'd prefer him over Kallgren I think.

I think if he hadn't signed with Lou a few days after we bought him out and opted to sign elsewhere, he may have gotten more NHL games, if not by a decent amount. Or even if he looked elsewhere in 2021 after a year with the Islanders.

For what it's worth, his last two AHL seasons have been good, but I don't think odds are favorable that he performs that well in the NHL. I'm not sure we legally can sign him while we're still paying his buyout, though we may be able to sign him for the AHL only, but not a two way. Remember, we did sign Hedberg to some AHL contract when there were injuries to goalies in the minors, the very year following the summer that we bought him out.

I'm not sure a guy like Elliott would sign in the AHL, assuming he even still wants to play.

 

[Bleedred]

Jeremy Brodeur f***ing stinks. Like, really terrible player. Guy has no business being near an AHL contract.

Nepotism at it's worst.

It appears he's only played 4 AHL games in his career, with 3 of them being for the AHL Devils in the 20-21 season. He's mostly played in the ECHL and in Europe.

And I really didn't know what he looked like, because where would I ever see him? But holy shit, he looks like he's close to 40 years old already and he's only 26. And some of these pictures are several years old. I don't think it's the beard, but it may be the beard + the long-ish hair combo.

He looks a bit like Marty, only with darker hair, a beard and longer hair.

 

[glenwo2]

I always thought Anthony looked more like Marty.

But one thing is for sure....Neither Brodeur brother has even 1 quarter of Marty's skill.

Shame.

 

[Xirik]

feels like there hasn't been a Devils trade thread in months.


I'm starting to miss it.