Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Guadana]

Bader is funny to me because it seems like the tape guys and the analytics guys all universally think he's full of shit.

In my mind tape and analytics should be the same guys. Both things are required. Bader should buy skillshare python courses and close his twitter page.

 

[My3Sons]

In my mind tape and analytics should be the same guys. Both things are required. Bader should buy skillshare python courses and close his twitter page.

Maybe he’d do better if he used lemons?

 

[Xirik]

Maybe he’d do better if he used lemons?

Pssssh what are those good for?!

 

[Nubmer6]

Pssssh what are those good for?!

Lemonade.

 

[Xirik]

Lemonade.

We all know the lemon juice is just used as smokescreen to cover the people who just want to drink sugar.

 

[Guadana]

Pssssh what are those good for?!

For eyes.

 

[glenwo2]

So what are we talking about here again?

Hellebuyck is a Lemon?

+

=

PROFIT!!!

 

[glenwo2]

BTW a Winnipeg Jets fan was at AATJ and the discussion was about possibly having to give up Mercer to get Hellebuyck....

He stated this :

Ok, let's hammer out the details for our team's GMs.

Seems the Devils would be down to 10 forwards if they trade Mercer, so there is a need there. Not familiar with how many of your prospects are likely to jump into the bottom 6, but the Jets could probably offer 23 yr old Gustafsson ($775k), a defensively responsible center that scored okay in the AHL, but that offense hasn't transitioned into bottom 6 scoring yet.

Don't see a need on defense, but NJ may have interest in 6'6" LHD Stanley (unsigned RFA). He's 25 and could provide some size/depth, if the team needs it.

Can the Devils still add a difference-making goaltender?

The Devils are tight against the cap. They’re also, arguably, a goaltender away from winning a Cup. Do they have enough room left to get the last big piece they need to win the Stanley Cup this season?

www.allaboutthejersey.com

Not feeling in trading away Mercer...at all...but that may have to be the price (along with Vanacek going back, 50% retained hopefully) if we want Hellebuyck (or rather if Fitz wants Hellebuyck badly enough).

 

[Call Me Al]

i don’t want to give up mercer for hellebuyck, no way

 

[glenwo2]

i don’t want to give up mercer for hellebuyck, no way

Neither do I.

And I don't believe Fitz will either.


To be honest, I'd be content with rolling with Schmid and Vanacek again.

 

[tailfins]

BTW a Winnipeg Jets fan was at AATJ and the discussion was about possibly having to give up Mercer to get Hellebuyck....

He stated this :

Ok, let's hammer out the details for our team's GMs.

Seems the Devils would be down to 10 forwards if they trade Mercer, so there is a need there. Not familiar with how many of your prospects are likely to jump into the bottom 6, but the Jets could probably offer 23 yr old Gustafsson ($775k), a defensively responsible center that scored okay in the AHL, but that offense hasn't transitioned into bottom 6 scoring yet.

Don't see a need on defense, but NJ may have interest in 6'6" LHD Stanley (unsigned RFA). He's 25 and could provide some size/depth, if the team needs it.

Can the Devils still add a difference-making goaltender?

The Devils are tight against the cap. They’re also, arguably, a goaltender away from winning a Cup. Do they have enough room left to get the last big piece they need to win the Stanley Cup this season?

www.allaboutthejersey.com

Not feeling in trading away Mercer...at all...but that may have to be the price (along with Vanacek going back, 50% retained hopefully) if we want Hellebuyck (or rather if Fitz wants Hellebuyck badly enough).

Hellebuyck is a rental. Meier didn’t net Mercer. That Jets fan is delusional.

I understand that Dubois brought back a pretty hefty return through a sign and trade. There’s a big difference in having a 25 year old potential #1C locked up for 8 years vs a 30 year old goalie who needs a new contract next year.

Saros with 2 years remaining and 2 years younger? Different story. Still don’t want to trade Mercer for him, but at least I understand the conversation.

Edit: the AATJ post had some proposals that were reasonable value-wise. I don’t know about other teams needs though. I also couldn’t find the Jets fan comment.

The thing that AATJ post did make clear, though, was that even with a “reasonable” trade, bringing back a bigger name goalie now would deplete the Devils prospect pool. If Fitz only has one shot to bring in another core piece, is this / now the right move?

 

[Guadana]

BTW a Winnipeg Jets fan was at AATJ and the discussion was about possibly having to give up Mercer to get Hellebuyck....

He stated this :

Ok, let's hammer out the details for our team's GMs.

Seems the Devils would be down to 10 forwards if they trade Mercer, so there is a need there. Not familiar with how many of your prospects are likely to jump into the bottom 6, but the Jets could probably offer 23 yr old Gustafsson ($775k), a defensively responsible center that scored okay in the AHL, but that offense hasn't transitioned into bottom 6 scoring yet.

Don't see a need on defense, but NJ may have interest in 6'6" LHD Stanley (unsigned RFA). He's 25 and could provide some size/depth, if the team needs it.

Can the Devils still add a difference-making goaltender?

The Devils are tight against the cap. They’re also, arguably, a goaltender away from winning a Cup. Do they have enough room left to get the last big piece they need to win the Stanley Cup this season?

www.allaboutthejersey.com

Not feeling in trading away Mercer...at all...but that may have to be the price (along with Vanacek going back, 50% retained hopefully) if we want Hellebuyck (or rather if Fitz wants Hellebuyck badly enough).

So. No Hellebuyck.

 

[glenwo2]

So. No Hellebuyck.

Pretty much.

I'd much rather prefer Vanacek with Schmid anyway as we know what we will get from those two.

We DON'T know what we will actually get from Hellebuyck *HERE*.

I mean...he could all of a sudden turn into a friggin' Pumpkin....

 

[MB3]

The market for a rental Hellebuyck is not high enough where the Devils would need to trade a ~30g/60p 21 year old center with 4 years of team control left.

If Hellebuyck was 24 and in year-2 of this contract? Yeah.

1 season and then rumors of resetting the goalie market with his next contract? Lol.

 

[Devs3cups]

Hellebuyck is a rental. Meier didn’t net Mercer.

Was going to post almost exactly this lol.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Mercer for Hellebuyck is absurd. Goalies never have that much value, much less a rental goalie.

 

[TheNeutralZone]

So, you give up Holtz and whatever and Helle puts up a .920 season.

What do you do? Commit big money and term to a 31 yo goaltender? That's not going to end well. Ever. That might not even begin well.

I'm fine sitting this one out unless the price is low enough where you can walk away next summer if the bidding gets out of hand (and it will).

 

[Triumph]

So, you give up Holtz and whatever and Helle puts up a .920 season.

What do you do? Commit big money and term to a 31 yo goaltender? That's not going to end well. Ever. That might not even begin well.

I'm fine sitting this one out unless the price is low enough where you can walk away next summer if the bidding gets out of hand (and it will).

What you hope is that you win a Stanley Cup and then you probably commit big money and it doesn't end well but hey, whatever, you tried.

But you're hoping that he's willing to take a reasonable deal to stay or that Schmid can take a larger role next season and you find a guy who can play 1B with him in 2024-25.

 

[TheNeutralZone]

What you hope is that you win a Stanley Cup and then you probably commit big money and it doesn't end well but hey, whatever, you tried.

Absolutely. It's possible that could happen.

But are baby Luke Hughes, Simon Nemec and even Kevin Bahl ready to take them there or are they more likely to win two or three seasons from now?

By that point, Helle might not be Helle anymore. And you'd be in the middle of an onerus contract.

It also depends on if you think Holtz is still a key piece for the future that can eventually fit on this roster or if you already view him as a sunk cost.

If it's the latter, maybe you just roll the dice short-term and move on and try someone else if it fails. Maybe you give Schmid the keys in 2024-25.

 

[Nico Hischier]

So, you give up Holtz and whatever and Helle puts up a .920 season.

What do you do? Commit big money and term to a 31 yo goaltender? That's not going to end well. Ever. That might not even begin well.

I'm fine sitting this one out unless the price is low enough where you can walk away next summer if the bidding gets out of hand (and it will).

I think a one year rental to try to win a cup like the avs did with kuemper would be ideal. Don’t see an extension unless it’s 7 aav and doubt that would happen. Not sure id want to give up holtz for a one year rental but if i knew it brought a cup back to nj for one year then helle walks, I would do it without hesitation.

Is hellebuyck the missing piece? I’m not sure but I think him being an elite goalie would cover for some of the mistakes our rookie defensemen will make.

 

[Call Me Al]

the devils can win this year. but their best chance to win will be when you have a 27 year old nico, a 24 year old jack, 22 year old hughes and nemec, and the next 3-4 years after that. i don't think going all in on hellebuyck is worth it if it sacrifices a piece like mercer. look at the goalies who've won recently, and our roster should be just as strong as theirs

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

The hope is that you acquire Hellebuyck, he has a successful year in NJ and wants to stay. You let him test UFA most likely cause he will want to and there's no GM like Dale Tallon out there to give him an absurd contract you can't compete with, and something reasonably close to market value for a top 31 year old goalie can be arranged for an extension below whatever your internal budget for goalie is.

If not then you have to have to just walk away, which would be tough cause likely you have Schmid and a hole in net again to fix.

 

[njdevil26]

The hope is that you acquire Hellebuyck, he has a successful year in NJ and wants to stay. You let him test UFA most likely cause he will want to and there's no GM like Dale Tallon out there to give him an absurd contract you can't compete with, and something reasonably close to market value for a top 31 year old goalie can be arranged for an extension below whatever your internal budget for goalie is.

If not then you have to have to just walk away, which would be tough cause likely you have Schmid and a hole in net again to fix.

That's what Fitz is big on right now. Just getting guys here and them being sold on the team/area... it worked with Meier and Haula.

 

[glenwo2]

I also couldn’t find the Jets fan comment.

The thing that AATJ post did make clear, though, was that even with a “reasonable” trade, bringing back a bigger name goalie now would deplete the Devils prospect pool. If Fitz only has one shot to bring in another core piece, is this / now the right move?

Here :

It's there.

Just in case you believed I was making stuff up.

 

[Guadana]

Pretty much.

I'd much rather prefer Vanacek with Schmid anyway as we know what we will get from those two.

We DON'T know what we will actually get from Hellebuyck *HERE*.

I mean...he could all of a sudden turn into a friggin' Pumpkin....

we can grab DeSmith or Nedelcovich from waivers. I believe we will have sucn an opportunity this fall.