Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

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I’m not saying fluery is going to break it but if he can be 150 wins away and still playing. All it will take is a goalie who’s a little better than him and little healthier and he will be close. Fluery is “this close” and he’s played like 300 fewer games which I think is pretty impressive. Considering players are more inclined to go ufa I can see a goalie in the future jumping ship from a contender to contender and always be on a good team
Out of active goalies, I would say Vasilevskiy has the best chance at breaking the record. Him starting so early (debuted in the league full time at 20 years old) may also help that, as opposed to goalies that don't break into the league until they're 23.

But say he averages 35 wins per year over the next 5 seasons, that will put him at 438 wins right before he turns 34 years old.

But also, anything could happen. Goalies are starting to fall apart younger than they were.

Vasilevskiy could be horrible by the time he's 33 or god forbid, chronic injuries could even cause him to be out of active hockey. If you had told anyone in 2017 that Holtby only has 5 more years left in the league and wouldn't play past age 32, not many people would have believed you or taken that bet.

I also had Quick projected for at least 450 wins back in 2015 0r 2016, by the time his career ended. That's totally not how it's going to turn out for him. He's gonna struggle and badly humiliate himself in his quest to 400.
 
There are less work horses each year, it's a tough one to break. You need to average 70+ games and with analytics, old goaltenders that are bad won't keep playing based on reputation.
Yeah I mean tha yes the only thing that Marty has going for him is the work load. The biggest knock on ovie getting the goal record was him breaking down missing time. That never happened so even with a limited work load as long as the goalie is healthy I think a freak will come along like ovie and just defy the odds. The wins record is def more breakable then the shut out though now that I think about it

Out of active goalies, I would say Vasilevskiy has the best chance at breaking the record. Him starting so early (debuted in the league full time at 20 years old) may also help that, as opposed to goalies that don't break into the league until they're 23.

But say he averages 35 wins per year over the next 5 seasons, that will put him at 438 wins right before he turns 34 years old.

But also, anything could happen. Goalies are starting to fall apart younger than they were.

Vasilevskiy could be horrible by the time he's 33 or god forbid, chronic injuries could even cause him to be out of active hockey. If you had told anyone in 2017 that Holtby only has 5 more years left in the league and wouldn't play past age 32, not many people would have believed you or taken that bet.

I also had Quick projected for at least 450 wins back in 2015 0r 2016, by the time his career ended. That's totally not how it's going to turn out for him. He's gonna struggle and badly humiliate himself in his quest to 400.

When you say won’t be broken for a long time what’s a long time? To me long time is like 60-70years. These guys now were playing with broduer playing still I think some of them So I think it will take probably 20-30 years before we see it.
 
I don't really have interest in a Parise or even Henrique reunion.

Yea they could probably help us, but nah. Just tired of these type of things.
Henrique could potentially be fine, but Parise is about to turn 39 and probably overachieved last year. He'll also be the third oldest player in the league behind Giordano and Pavelski.

And to think that just 2 seasons ago he was the third oldest player on his team haha.
Ideally, Lazar should not be in the plans to be a regular forward in the lineup if all healthy. He's a 13th fwd that slides into the lineup when an injury arrives.

I'd take Zach back in a heart beat to play with Mikey and Bass, mainly just because I'm not very high on Lazar or Foote
I honestly don't believe the intent for Lazar is to be an every night player. They certainly didn't use him as such down the stretch and into the playoffs. He was lost to injury like a minute after he got here, so that probably cost him some games played, but even when he was healthy he was scratched his fair share.
 
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Yeah I mean tha yes the only thing that Marty has going for him is the work load. The biggest knock on ovie getting the goal record was him breaking down missing time. That never happened so even with a limited work load as long as the goalie is healthy I think a freak will come along like ovie and just defy the odds. The wins record is def more breakable then the shut out though now that I think about it



When you say won’t be broken for a long time what’s a long time? To me long time is like 60-70years. These guys now were playing with broduer playing still I think some of them So I think it will take probably 20-30 years before we see it.
I'm gonna probably not 20 years. I think it'll be longer than that. 60-70? I could see it being broken before that.

20 years? I don't see it coming that quick.

Like I said, I think Vasilevskiy is the only real shot at breaking it as of right this moment, among the goalies that are active.

Fleury will have to play well into his 40's to get there, and get a lot of starts and wins while doing it. I'd completely write that off from happening and I think that's a safe bet.
 
you just proved in your own statement why the record will fall and it will be a lot sooner then you think. MAF isn't super close but it wasn't very far away either. with no labor stoppages the record will def fall to someone in the near future.

How?

Fleury isn’t winning 147 more games.

It took him 5 years to win his last 140 games. MAF not going to be the same starter until he’s 43.

He hasn’t kept up with Brodeur’s pace, not with wins or games played, and I don’t see any goalie touching those records.

Fleury got up there due to his longevity and being playoffs teams, but he never played more than 67 games, as opposed to playing +70 games 12 times.

Fleur just ended his age 38 season with a total 544 wins.
Brodeur ended his age 38 season with a total of 625 wins (+81).

Hellebuyck just finished his age 29 season with a total of 238 wins.
Fleury finished his age 29 season with a total of 288 wins (+50).
Brodeur finished his age 29 season with a total of 324 wins (+86).

Vasilevsky just finished his age 28 season with a total of 263 wins.
Fluery finished his age 28 season with a total of 249 wins (-14).
Brodeur finished with his age 28 season with 286 wins (+23).

So Vasi is only goalie on remotely the same pace and he’s still only 28.

When it takes likely future Hall of fame candidate run from a goalie for them to even have a long shot chance at those records, those records very safe.

Brodeur lost a year (his age 32 season) but in a lot of ways that layoff revitalized him for that last big run when he ripped off a bunch of +40 win seasons. Vasi will have a very tough time matching that pace in his 30s.

And if Vasi doesn’t stay close then it can’t happen in the “near future” because this record literally takes decades to pull off and no one else is a viable candidate.
 
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Meh. I'm sure the insecure desperate MTL fans will vote early and often even though it doesn't change reality. I think a similar poll could be who would you rather have on your football team, Daniel Jones or whoever the guy is who washes the uniforms for the Dallas Cowboys.

It not that simple. Says points only league. Hutson is only going to be an NHL regular if he's putting up a ton of points and will be given every opportunity to put up points. Nemec will be behind Hamilton, L. Hughes, and possibly Q. Hughes later with respect to power play time. In a thin league, there is a good chance he's not even rosterable.
 
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How?

Fleury isn’t winning 147 more games.

It took him 5 years to win his last 140 games. MAF not going to be the same starter until he’s 43.

He hasn’t kept up with Brodeur’s pace, not with wins or games played, and I don’t see any goalie touching those records.

Fleury got up there due to his longevity and being playoffs teams, but he never played more than 67 games, as opposed to playing +70 games 12 times.

Fleur just ended his age 38 season with a total 544 wins.
Brodeur ended his age 38 season with a total of 625 wins (+81).

Hellebuyck just finished his age 29 season with a total of 238 wins.
Fleury finished his age 29 season with a total of 288 wins (+50).
Brodeur finished his age 29 season with a total of 324 wins (+86).

Vasilevsky just finished his age 28 season with a total of 263 wins.
Fluery finished his age 28 season with a total of 249 wins (-14).
Brodeur finished with his age 28 season with 286 wins (+23).

So Vasi is only goalie on remotely the same pace and he’s still only 28.

When it takes likely future Hall of fame candidate run from a goalie for them to even have a long shot chance at those records, those records a very safe.

Brodeur lost a year (his age 32 season) but in a lot of ways that layoff revitalized him for that last big run when he ripped off a bunch of +40 win seasons. Vasi will have a very tough time matching that pace in his 30s.

And if Vasi doesn’t stay close then it can’t happen in the “near future” because this record literally takes decades to pull off and no one else is a viable candidate.
The fact that a goalie like fluery imo can come close to the record just shows how in reach it is
 
The fact that a goalie like fluery imo can come close to the record just shows how in reach it is
Fleury isn't a bad goalie, though he's also not someone I consider legendary. As I've said a lot over the last 5 years or so, his best years were in his early 30's. He wasn't a very consistently good goalie from year to year for much of his 20's, but collected a lot of wins playing for a powerhouse. He was also rushed into the league at a really young age.

Fleury from about 2014-2019 was a really good goalie. He sort of aged backwards, outside of these last couple of years, where he's played like an old, declining goalie.

And as close as he's gonna come to Brodeur, he's still gonna be yet so far behind him when he stops playing. I'd like to think this will be his last year in the league, but maybe he'll play for one more year after this. I can actually see him playing another several years, but he won't be at all effective while doing it.
 
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It not that simple. Says points only league. Hutson is only going to be an NHL regular if he's putting up a ton of points and will be given every opportunity to put up points. Nemec will be behind Hamilton, L. Hughes, and possibly Q. Hughes later with respect to power play time. In a thin league, there is a good chance he's not even rosterable.
I get that. He’s also smaller than me ans maybe he’s the next Fox or maybe he’s the next Smith. I’d lean towards Hutson making it but it’s not a sure thing.
 
It not that simple. Says points only league. Hutson is only going to be an NHL regular if he's putting up a ton of points and will be given every opportunity to put up points. Nemec will be behind Hamilton, L. Hughes, and possibly Q. Hughes later with respect to power play time. In a thin league, there is a good chance he's not even rosterable.
I feel there's a pretty good chance Nemec is a better PP QB than Luke and that they use both accordingly. He also shouldn't be behind Dougie for too long imo.
 
I don't think it will happen in the near future.

MAF is still like over 150-some odd wins away and is 38 years old.

He didn't look like he had much gas left last year and is pretty washed up himself. Not Quick level washed up. I don't think anyone has been since maybe Barrasso or Vernon in the early 00's. But still fairly washed up in his own right.

I do remember a stat back in the 2011-2012 season that then-27 year old Fleury had almost as many wins as Brodeur had when he was 27. Fleury seems like he could pass Roy soon, depending how long it takes him to get another 10 or 12 wins or whatever it is. He turns 39 in November.

Brodeur passed Roy in March of 2009, just before he turned 37 years old. Brodeur hadn't yet missed that entire year lockout when he was 27 years old. MAF would wind up missing roughly half a season's worth of lockout in his 28 year old season.

Out of active goalies, I would say Vasilevskiy has the best chance at breaking the record. Him starting so early (debuted in the league full time at 20 years old) may also help that, as opposed to goalies that don't break into the league until they're 23.

But say he averages 35 wins per year over the next 5 seasons, that will put him at 438 wins right before he turns 34 years old.

But also, anything could happen. Goalies are starting to fall apart younger than they were.

Vasilevskiy could be horrible by the time he's 33 or god forbid, chronic injuries could even cause him to be out of active hockey. If you had told anyone in 2017 that Holtby only has 5 more years left in the league and wouldn't play past age 32, not many people would have believed you or taken that bet.

I also had Quick projected for at least 450 wins back in 2015 0r 2016, by the time his career ended. That's totally not how it's going to turn out for him. He's gonna struggle and badly humiliate himself in his quest to 400.

The fact that a goalie like fluery imo can come close to the record just shows how in reach it is

It’s not in reach though, 147 wins is not happening at age 38.

In the last 30 years, four goalies have won 30 games in a season at age 38 or over:
9EE8F9E5-F04E-452E-A734-3D6013BA817F.jpeg

That’s it.

Hell, only 7 guys did it at age 36-37. (And two of them are on the 1st list.)
32FB34B3-78EF-48D9-A0A5-878790D9FF7D.jpeg


To even have a theoretical shot Fleury needs to win +30 games next season and that’s not happening. And after he did that, he would be 39 and still need a 100 something wins.

Marty’s late run (43 W at 33, 48 W at 34, 44 W at 35, 45 at 37) is just the killing blow to all challengers too.

The top wins per season for a goalie over 30 in the last 30 years:
B784004D-3260-48C0-99E0-2FF766D01FD3.jpeg


So Vasi could do it, in the sense that he’s not hopelessly behind yet, but he only has 38% of Brodeur’s totals wins so far.

Goalies are going to keep coming up short for some reason because no one will play nearly as much, without injury, on a perennial winner that long and that constantly well.

One element is going to miss, the most obvious being less games. Fleury is actually extraordinary for how close he’s come.

He’s basically a mutant with his flexibility, it’s bonkers how healthy he’s been.

MAF was a 1OA pick who played in the NHL since he was 19 and he’s been on a playoff team every season since he was 22.

MAF’s 4th all time on Games Played by a goalie (985), 44 games behind Roy (1029) and 59 games behind Luongo (1044). He might move up there.

He can also catch Roy in wins (551) with 7 more.

With GP, Vasi has 425 GP at age 28.
MAF had 468 GP (+43) at age 28 and then played 518 more games.
Brodeur had 519 GP (+88) at age 28 and then played 747 more games.

With GP, Fleury has 986 GP at age 38.
Brodeur had 1,133 GP (+147) at age 38 and then played 134 more games.
 
The fact that ties aren't a thing anymore means it will be broken one day.

I don't think so. First off, Brodeur didn't have ties the final 9+ seasons of his career. Second, we haven't seen anyone come close. It's unlikely that someone will have the longevity, durability, and the ability to play for a great team for basically their entire career.

No one currently active will challenge the record.
 
Is Dan McKinnon the official GM of the Utica Comets? Is that how it works?

If so, I'm somewhat surprised he's been getting a lot of traction around the league for open NHL gm positions. I don't know how much Utica roster building lies on him vs Fitz and how much he does for the Big Devs, but I feel like this is two offseasons in a row right now that have been, to put it lightly, not good for Utica.
 
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Marty played 70 or more games 12 times in his career, including 10 straight seasons from 1997-98 until 2007-08. No goalie is going to play that amount of games again to have a realistic chance at catching his wins record.
This is what I was going to say. We're heading into the age of using a tandem. At the end of the day it's all going to even out.
 
Fleury isn't a bad goalie, though he's also not someone I consider legendary. As I've said a lot over the last 5 years or so, his best years were in his early 30's. He wasn't a very consistently good goalie from year to year for much of his 20's, but collected a lot of wins playing for a powerhouse. He was also rushed into the league at a really young age.

Fleury from about 2014-2019 was a really good goalie. He sort of aged backwards, outside of these last couple of years, where he's played like an old, declining goalie.

And as close as he's gonna come to Brodeur, he's still gonna be yet so far behind him when he stops playing. I'd like to think this will be his last year in the league, but maybe he'll play for one more year after this. I can actually see him playing another several years, but he won't be at all effective while doing it.

If a non legendary goalie can still get to say 120 wins of the record then I hate to tell you the record isn’t safe
 
If a non legendary goalie can still get to say 120 wins of the record then I hate to tell you the record isn’t safe
40 wins is good enough most years to lead the NHL in wins.

Even if we say a goalie wins 42 games a season, it would take them ~16.5 seasons to get to Marty’s record.

That assumes the goalie probably leads the league in wins all 16.5 seasons.

————————

For me, the record is pretty safe. Goalies don’t play enough games to win enough to get to Marty’s level. There would need to be a change back to goalies playing 65+ games and I don’t see that happening anytime soon, if ever.
 
Luke battling it out with Cooley for the #5 spot in the HFBoards top 50 prospects poll. Would only be fitting if he was voted the #1 D prospect. Cooley’s also a very good prospect.
 
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