Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Which is exactly how it went down with Meier - rumors include these outrageous pieces, people freak out despite it not passing the smell test, and then when the deal comes out and it's far more reasonable than the rumors claimed.

The insider is reporting the deal is done but can't even decide whether it's Holtz or Mercer - don't you think that would be figured out before the deal is done? And if the deal isn't done, why are they reporting on it as if it was done? Far more credible people have already reported about how a previous Markstrom deal was nixed last week, so why would they assume this one is locked in unless the paperwork is already submitted? Makes no sense.

I think Fitz also lowered his price after the week that Daws just had, he's no rush and probably told Calgary to take this offer or beat it until the summer.

 

[JimEIV]

You're in for a lot of disappointment if you think you're going to wait to start contending until your core starts approaching 30.

When Chicago won their first cup in 2010, Kane was 21, Toews was 22, Seabrook was 25, Keith was 27.

When Pittsburgh won their first cup in 2009, Crosby was 22, Malkin was 23, Staal was 20, Letang was 22.

Bratt is already 25, Nico is 25, Timo is 27. Jack is 22. It's go time. You cannot wait and wait and wait.

30? Your best 2 Dmen are 19 and 20...that would be doable if there was a rock Dman behind them but there isn't anything remotely close...who are they going to lean on Marino? Siegenthaler? Good luck with that and competing for a championship.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You know it's bad when Jim is making more sense than other posters today.

 

[Unknown Caller]

30? Your best 2 Dmen are 19 and 20...that would be doable if there was a rock Dman behind them but there isn't anything remotely close...who are they going to lean on Marino? Siegenthaler? Good luck with that and competing for a championship.

Dougie Hamilton is 30 and will be there in the playoffs. He's their legit 1A, top 20 in the league defenseman.

Good luck waiting for life to pass you by with potentially the most talented core the Devils will ever have because we want to clutch on to all of our B/B+ prospects.

 

[JrFischer54]

Not at even strength.

If you let Holtz play PP with Hughes he would score a lot of PP goals too.

Instead Toffoli plays with Hughes at ES and can only keep pace with Holtz who plays with guys like Willman.

Ok that’s great and maybe he would but he hasn’t. Ppg count just the same amount as esg so I don’t really care where they come from.

 

[R8Devs]

I don't hate Holtz, I just don't cherry pick numbers, limit game states, and come up with narrow statistical nuances for why he's better than he really is.

I think Holtz will probably turn into a Mike Hoffman/Petr Sykora type. Which is a very reasonable and level headed evaluation. He's not going to turn into some star that you all think he will.

how is 5v5 game stats cherry picking? that's the most important game state and the one he plays the most at. it would make more sense if you think his production there is more a mirage. And he doesn't have to be a star for the Devils to get value out of him. We'll see if he remains here after the deadline but the Devils will need cheap productive players to have a more rounded team and he is/can be one of those guys

 

[Bcap88]

I don't hate Holtz, I just don't cherry pick numbers, limit game states, and come up with narrow statistical nuances for why he's better than he really is.

I think Holtz will probably turn into a Mike Hoffman/Petr Sykora type. Which is a very reasonable and level headed evaluation. He's not going to turn into some star that you all think he will.

Even his historical prospect production translates to kind of a meh career profile. He'll be an average NHL producer.

Ok let’s do this then

12 goals on pace for 20 with 11 minutes of ice time while playing pp2 minutes

He will score 30 if given the proper the ice time and situation which looks like it won’t be here

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Dougie Hamilton is 30 and will be there in the playoffs. He's their legit 1A, top 20 in the league defenseman.

Good luck waiting for life to pass you by with potentially the most talented core the Devils will ever have because we want to clutch on to all of our B/B+ prospects.

That doesn't make the answer "throw assets at a 34-year-old Jacob Markstrom".

 

[Unknown Caller]

how is 5v5 game stats cherry picking? that's the most important game state and the one he plays the most at. it would make more sense if you think his production there is more a mirage. And he doesn't have to be a star for the Devils to get value out of him. We'll see if he remains here after the deadline but the Devils will need cheap productive players to have a more rounded team and he is/can be one of those guys

If you refuse to move Holtz for key upgrades that this team needs to contend, you damn well better think he's going to be a star.

Because if you're not moving a guy who tops out as a one dimensional middle 6 scorer for a bonafide 1A goalie, then I'm not sure how that asset management works out.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Going all in on Jacob Markstrom only for Lindy Ruff to get man handled by Rod Brindamour again round 2 possibly is gonna be next level comedy by the same posters.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I’d be comfortable with a Markstrom Daws tandem.

But scared of the price.

 

[Unknown Caller]

That doesn't make the answer "throw assets at a 34-year-old Jacob Markstrom".

Uhhh yes it does. Markstrom is the piece that answers the biggest weakness of this team for 3 straight playoff runs. There's nothing more important.

Mercer is probably too rich, but I would move Holtz for Markstrom in an instant.

 

[Bcap88]

If you refuse to move Holtz for key upgrades that this team needs to contend, you damn well better think he's going to be a star.

Because if you're not moving a guy who tops out as a one dimensional middle 6 scorer for a bonafide 1A goalie, then I'm not sure how that asset management works out.

Doesn’t always have to be a star

It may very likely come down too would you rather pay toffoli on a long term deal or give those minutes to Holtz to try and replace that production on a cheaper more cost controlled deal

 

[Whaddagoal]

I can see moving Holtz (although it still is a bit premature because we still don't fully know what we have), but absolutely not for Mercer. I just don't see the long-term benefit unless we win a cup this year (or whatever term Markstrom has left).

Markstrom's window as a player is literally closing very soon, Maybe 1-2 years given no injuries and no major decline of his own due to age. We all know what it was like watching Broduer at the end, even with his 2012 run was a bit fortunate. We just watched him happily because he was our elite star forever and wanted him to get a 4th and be even more legendary.

Watching an aging goaltender decline with very little previous emotional invest will not be given as much sympathy when he fails, and i think the org would be really silly to give up premium youth assets (Mercer included) for him.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

If you trade Holtz, you're probably also extending Toffoli which might be the dumbest thing you can do but whatever lol

 

[Unknown Caller]

Doesn’t always have to be a star

It may very likely come down too would you rather pay toffoli on a long term deal or give those minutes to Holtz to try and replace that production on a cheaper more cost controlled deal

I'm not sure how the Toffoli/Holtz question solves the issue of your core being in their prime without a reliable goalie.

You're going to have to give up some assets of value. It's not like we're trading Nemec for Markstrom. They can part with Holtz, and they should over guys like Mercer and Casey.

 

[My3Sons]

That doesn't make the answer "throw assets at a 34-year-old Jacob Markstrom".

If all it took was a first and some depth prospects and Vanacek of course it’s an easy decision. It’s all the Holtz/Mercer talk that seems extreme. I’d trade a first and Casey for Markstrom and of course Vanacek goes too and maybe even another decent prospect not named Gritsyuk or Misyul. But to upset your NHL roster possibly long term for two years of Markstrom seems unnecessary.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I’d be comfortable with a Markstrom Daws tandem.

But scared of the price.

Agreed, but VERY scared of the price.

 

[JimEIV]

Dougie Hamilton is 30 and will be there in the playoffs. He's their legit 1A, top 20 in the league defenseman.

Good luck waiting for life to pass you by with potentially the most talented core the Devils will ever have because we want to clutch on to all of our B/B+ prospects.

The most talented core the devil's ever had might not make the playoffs this season.

This team is probably 3 years away from competing in my opinion.

 

[Bcap88]

I'm not sure how the Toffoli/Holtz question solves the issue of your core being in their prime without a reliable goalie.

You're going to have to give up some assets of value. It's not like we're trading Nemec for Markstrom. They can part with Holtz, and they should over guys like Mercer and Casey.

Yea I’m not sure trying to aquire a 34 year old goalie with a dead cat bounce type year is the answer either

 

[R8Devs]

If you refuse to move Holtz for key upgrades that this team needs to contend, you damn well better think he's going to be a star.

Because if you're not moving a guy who tops out as a one dimensional middle 6 scorer for a bonafide 1A goalie, then I'm not sure how that asset management works out.

Sure that's reasonable and a winger for a goalie who can be your number 1 and start 55+ games is a smart thing to do value wise but there can be reservations about Markstrom since he's 34 and last season he only had .892. Then you essentially have to re-sign Toffoli and that can be a risk in of itself since he's turning 32 this season. If Markstrom is this season's Markstrom throughout the life of his deal then it'd be a great deal for the Devils but there's a risk in believing in that. and you can also wonder how much less/more it would take to acquire a guy like Ullmark or Saros in the offseason.

But if the Devils do end up acquiring Markstrom and he's able to perform like he has for Calgary this year then yeah the Devils would be cup contenders.

 

[theoptimist]

We need Coleman more than Hanifin

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The most talented core the devil's ever had might not make the playoffs this season.

This team is probably 3 years away from competing in my opinion.

I wouldn't say 3 years away, it depends how fast they get off Lindy + they can get said goalie to help them not lose games. The defense will be fine, we should be happy that Nemec looks the part already and Luke has shown flashes but struggled a bit which we all expected from the type of play style he has. The offense has looked dynamic at times and flat out dead at times. We're still missing a jitterbug like Tatar but I have a feeling once we trim the dead weight + the veteran D gets back up to snuff that we'll be contending

 

[theoptimist]

Still need to solve the MM problem

 

[Unknown Caller]

Yea I’m not sure trying to aquire a 34 year old goalie with a dead cat bounce type year is the answer either

Lmao "dead cat bounce" like the guy sucked for 5 years and is having one random good season.

Literally the highest GSAx in the entire NHL this season. Had one off year last year, which isn't atypical for goalies.

Would love to hear your goaltending solution, I'm sure it's acquiring a middling guy like Samsonov or Husso in past years and praying that they don't completely suck.