Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

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Devils731

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Jun 23, 2008
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Holtz hasn’t even remotely earned the right to be mentioned in the same production level as Toff.

Holtz might end up there someday but I doubt it’s with the devils. I rather keep him and deal Casey
Toffoli has 1 more even strength goal than Holtz.

Holtz actually has 1 more point than Toffoli at even strength.

To a neutral audience, I think I’d have an easier time arguing Holtz has been more productive at ES than Toffoli this year.
 

Oneiro

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Mar 28, 2013
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I get that you have to put your balls on the table at some point but I've seen nothing from this team that suggests their time is now. Or even next year. We are pretty veteran heavy now - Toffoli, Palat, Nosek, Haula, Hamilton, Lazar, Marino. I can see why he'd have some urgency. But teams like Dallas, Vegas or Florida would eat us alive in a series.

Do you think this group would now be able to win that Carolina series with Markstrom and Hanifin? I don't.
 

Unknown Caller

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Apr 30, 2009
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This is where I get a little lost..what do you mean by "winning".

Just winning 45 games a season? We can do that with any goaltender...or you talking about competing for a championship? I don't think we are in that window yet personally and blowing assets for immediate help when you're not really in contention is setting the organization up for future failures.
They're in the window to compete for a championship now. Once guys start hitting 30, they're already heading downhill in their career arc. There's no more waiting, especially three years from now.

You can't waste these years with no goalie clutching on to a one trick pony like Alex Holtz.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

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Aug 24, 2020
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The Calgary "insider," who has apparently broken multiple trades before they've happened, is saying that the deal has been agreed to and that Mercer is "likely" part of the return.

I agree that it doesn't make any sense, but you know how the internet is. There's too much smoke for there not to be fire, but that doesn't mean every single word is true. I suspect there is a deal being worked on, but I think the Mercer part is an exaggeration to get eyes on his rumor.

All of last night I was telling Calgary fans that if guys were in this deal and it was that close, they would get pulled on the sake of injury. Imagine when Mercer got dog piled in the corner by 3 Kings players and the entire deal got compromised? I don't think Mercer is in it. It's probably prospects + picks for Markstrom, if anything.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame

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I get that you have to put your balls on the table at some point but I've seen nothing from this team that suggests their time is now. Or even next year. We are pretty veteran heavy now - Toffoli, Palat, Nosek, Haula, Hamilton, Lazar, Marino. I can see why he'd have some urgency. But teams like Dallas, Vegas or Florida would eat us alive in a series.

Do you think this group would now be able to win that Carolina series with Markstrom and Hanifin? I don't.

They're definitely our worst matchup in the league by far but I think it depends what they do at the deadline. Brindamour will probably chew up Lindy again coaching wise but the Devils players might have a massive chip on their shoulder for how last year went.
 

Unknown Caller

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Apr 30, 2009
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I get that you have to put your balls on the table at some point but I've seen nothing from this team that suggests their time is now. Or even next year. We are pretty veteran heavy now - Toffoli, Palat, Nosek, Haula, Hamilton, Lazar, Marino. I can see why he'd have some urgency. But teams like Dallas, Vegas or Florida would eat us alive in a series.

Do you think this group would now be able to win that Carolina series with Markstrom and Hanifin? I don't.
Yes. This team just outplayed Carolina in Carolina without Hamilton and Siegenthaler. This is a team that's ready to win with a reliable goaltender.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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They're in the window to compete for a championship now. Once guys start hitting 30, they're already heading downhill in their career arc. There's no more waiting, especially three years from now.

You can't waste these years with no goalie clutching on to a one trick pony like Alex Holtz.
You're in for a lot of disappointment if you think they're in a window to compete now.

Not with 3 rookie Dmen and a broken hodgepodge of forwards....
 
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JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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In a perfect world you don’t have to make this trade but people have to be realistic. Goaltending sunk this season we tried the cheap work with Vitek and then ran it back with him and schmid. So you either get a goalie now or in the summer it’s going to be the same price. Prices aren’t going to magically go down. Finding a replacement for holtz isn’t impossible maybe he goes on and 30g scorer down the road but don’t know if that will ever happen here.
 

JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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I get that you have to put your balls on the table at some point but I've seen nothing from this team that suggests their time is now. Or even next year. We are pretty veteran heavy now - Toffoli, Palat, Nosek, Haula, Hamilton, Lazar, Marino. I can see why he'd have some urgency. But teams like Dallas, Vegas or Florida would eat us alive in a series.

Do you think this group would now be able to win that Carolina series with Markstrom and Hanifin? I don't.
lol ready or not the window is now with these cheap contracts. So if the team isn’t ready now or even next year lol they might as well just tear it down.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Feb 17, 2012
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I get that you have to put your balls on the table at some point but I've seen nothing from this team that suggests their time is now. Or even next year. We are pretty veteran heavy now - Toffoli, Palat, Nosek, Haula, Hamilton, Lazar, Marino. I can see why he'd have some urgency. But teams like Dallas, Vegas or Florida would eat us alive in a series.

Do you think this group would now be able to win that Carolina series with Markstrom and Hanifin? I don't.
I would say maybe? Luke and Nemec are the types of players that can transform a team, and we have both of them. Next year could be a big jump for one of them, if not both. Or it could be the year after, it’s hard to predict. But it certainly within the real of possibility that we have multiple 25+ minute studs very shortly.
 

JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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You're in for a lot of disappointment if you think they're in a window to compete now.

Not with 3 rookie Dmen and a broken hodgepodge of forwards....
all that and they are 2pts out of a playoff spot with this shit goaltending. Lol sure they aren’t ready to compete. I sure hope you bet the under their point total for the year then
 

Jersey Fresh

Video Et Taceo
Feb 23, 2004
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Is there even a legitimate rumor about Mercer's involvement? Or is this just speculation?

We know Markstrom is a centerpiece, are there any actual legs to a Hanifin inclusion?
As far as I can tell, the entire thing beyond the fact that insiders reporting the deal isn't dead is pure speculation driven by some Calgary mod and message board.
 

Bcap88

Ruff season that’s for sure
Aug 12, 2011
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Why are we limiting goal scoring to 5v5? The best players and goal scorers of all time clean up on the powerplay.
Because the majority of the game is played at 5 on 5 ? And is more of an indicative of a player

Power plays fluctuate for no rhyme or reason as well

See devils first 20 games on the PP vs the last 20 games.

We get it you hate Holtz and just tried to wiesel your narrative with a screen shot of something that was obviously wrong
 

Devils731

Registered User
Jun 23, 2008
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Why are we limiting goal scoring to 5v5? The best players and goal scorers of all time clean up on the powerplay.
Because most of the game is played 5 on 5 and he plays on a second PP unit where somehow he is the best guy to carry the puck up the ice so they rarely get setup nor receives a pass.

But if you want, Holtz has only been one of the most efficient goal scorers in the league at 5 on 5 is a fine statement that shows he’s doing something. That something is scoring lots of goals for his little amount of ice time.
 

Unknown Caller

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Apr 30, 2009
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You're in for a lot of disappointment if you think they're in a window to compete now.

Not with 3 rookie Dmen and s broken hodgepodge of forwards....
You're in for a lot of disappointment if you think you're going to wait to start contending until your core starts approaching 30.

When Chicago won their first cup in 2010, Kane was 21, Toews was 22, Seabrook was 25, Keith was 27.

When Pittsburgh won their first cup in 2009, Crosby was 22, Malkin was 23, Staal was 20, Letang was 22.

Bratt is already 25, Nico is 25, Timo is 27. Jack is 22. It's go time. You cannot wait and wait and wait.
 

JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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Toffoli has 1 more even strength goal than Holtz.

Holtz actually has 1 more point than Toffoli at even strength.

To a neutral audience, I think I’d have an easier time arguing Holtz has been more productive at ES than Toffoli this year.
That’s great he still 11 goals short and 13pts.
 

R8Devs

1-5-6-12
Nov 20, 2010
21,185
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Why are we limiting goal scoring to 5v5? The best players and goal scorers of all time clean up on the powerplay.
you asked what he's done -- he responded with that stat to show what Holtz has done 5v5 and now you're talking about his impacts on the powerplay when he's not on PP1 and they don't even use that often from where he'd score goals from on pp2 (they use him in the bumper and right half wall on PP2 a lot instead of the left half wall where he'd his one timer option)
 

JrFischer54

Registered User
Apr 4, 2017
10,872
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You're in for a lot of disappointment if you think you're going to wait to start contending until your core starts approaching 30.

When Chicago won their first cup in 2010, Kane was 21, Toews was 22, Seabrook was 25, Keith was 27.

When Pittsburgh won their first cup in 2009, Crosby was 22, Malkin was 23, Staal was 20, Letang was 22.

Bratt is already 25, Nico is 25, Timo is 27. Jack is 22. It's go time. You cannot wait and wait and wait.
This board in the past “we can’t sign o28 players too old”! Now the thinking is “we are too young we can’t be expected to compete yet”
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,607
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Miami, FL
All of last night I was telling Calgary fans that if guys were in this deal and it was that close, they would get pulled on the sake of injury. Imagine when Mercer got dog piled in the corner by 3 Kings players and the entire deal got compromised? I don't think Mercer is in it. It's probably prospects + picks for Markstrom, if anything.
Which is exactly how it went down with Meier - rumors include these outrageous pieces, people freak out despite it not passing the smell test, and then when the deal comes out and it's far more reasonable than the rumors claimed.

The insider is reporting the deal is done but can't even decide whether it's Holtz or Mercer - don't you think that would be figured out before the deal is done? And if the deal isn't done, why are they reporting on it as if it was done? Far more credible people have already reported about how a previous Markstrom deal was nixed last week, so why would they assume this one is locked in unless the paperwork is already submitted? Makes no sense.
 

Unknown Caller

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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Because the majority of the game is played at 5 on 5 ? And is more of an indicative of a player

Power plays fluctuate for no rhyme or reason as well

See devils first 20 games on the PP vs the last 20 games.

We get it you hate Holtz and just tried to wiesel your narrative with a screen shot of something that was obviously wrong
I don't hate Holtz, I just don't cherry pick numbers, limit game states, and come up with narrow statistical nuances for why he's better than he really is.

I think Holtz will probably turn into a Mike Hoffman/Petr Sykora type. Which is a very reasonable and level headed evaluation. He's not going to turn into some star that you all think he will.

Even his historical prospect production translates to kind of a meh career profile. He'll be an average NHL producer.
 
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