Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[NJDevs26]

I would not include Holtz for Markstrom. That’s stupid

We say that now then Holtz will be a likely scratch six hours later

 

[Unknown Caller]

He was an .892 goalie the season prior. No guarantee we’re getting an elite goalie for 3 playoff runs.

Well we can't play Vitek Vanecek in a cup window and there aren't exactly a ton of options when it comes to goaltending, so it's well worth the risk. The time is now. There's no more waiting, and there's no elite 27 year old goalie who's suddenly going to be available in the near future.

Evolving-Hockey has Markstrom as the top goalie in the entire NHL saving 30 goals above expected. Come on. This isn't even a debate, and the Devils clearly aren't willing to do the deal without retention which makes it even more palatable.

 

[My3Sons]

Well we can't play Vitek Vanecek in a cup window and there aren't exactly a ton of options when it comes to goaltending, so it's well worth the risk. The time is now. There's no more waiting, and there's no elite 27 year old goalie who's suddenly going to be available.

Evolving-Hockey Markstrom has the top goalie in the entire NHL saving 30 goals above expected. Come on. This isn't even a debate, and the Devils clearly aren't willing to do the deal without retention which makes it even more palatable.

But Calgary isn’t. NJ must have some analytics formula about paying goalies. Either that or they have the cap mapped out for the next few years and it hinges on Vanacek’s cap hit in goal so they don’t want to exceed that.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Well we can't play Vitek Vanecek in a cup window and there aren't exactly a ton of options when it comes to goaltending, so it's well worth the risk. The time is now. There's no more waiting, and there's no elite 27 year old goalie who's suddenly going to be available in the near future.

Evolving-Hockey has Markstrom as the top goalie in the entire NHL saving 30 goals above expected. Come on. This isn't even a debate, and the Devils clearly aren't willing to do the deal without retention which makes it even more palatable.

It’s definitely worth the risk with retention. Without? I’m not offering anything. If it doesn’t work, you’ve clogged up your cap, blew your only real surplus assets for a goalie, and then still need a goalie. There’s definitely a big downside to a move like this.

 

[Devils731]

Let’s revisit goalies when the Devils more patient defensive scheme has all the current goalies not looking awful.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Meh. Better Markstrom than Gibson. But yeah, pickings are slim.

Holtz should be good for an annual 25-30 goals in his prime. Holtz + for a 34 year old goaltender? Not my favorite, but it’s clear something had to be done. I just don’t know if that’s the move or not.

In reality, this move should have been made in October when Markstrom’s price was down.

 

[Unknown Caller]

It’s definitely worth the risk with retention. Without? I’m not offering anything. If it doesn’t work, you’ve clogged up your cap, blew your only real surplus assets for a goalie, and then still need a goalie. There’s definitely a big downside to a move like this.

True, definitely a harder sell without retention. Either way, the cap hit isn't an issue this year so you would just have to work around it the next couple years.

With the cap going up and guys like Toffoli, Smith and Vanecek coming off the books in that timeframe, it probably could be managed. The retention certainly makes things easier though.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Asking Calgary to retain just seems borderline offensive to me to be honest unless NJ was willing pay a major premium to have them eat cap space/salary, there's no way he'd get a UFA deal less than $12 m total (6m x 2) if he were a FA this offseason. On a two year deal he'd want a big time salary cause he'd be getting major term given the pathetic goaltending market.

He's got a below market deal, at a comfortable term and that's why NJ is after him.

 

[youryeah]

calgary doesn't really retain on trades at all. only one I saw recently was when they traded david rittich to the leafs and paid half of a 2.75m cap hit (whoopee). flames are probably asking for a nice piece + no retention or very little

 

[Zacha37]

The retention part being the biggest snag has me feeling like this deal may have been bigger than just Markstrom coming to NJ. We have plenty of space with the Dougie contract on LTIR and although Markstrom would be on the books next season it’s fair to assume Vitek would be shipped out if a deal were to come to fruition. Maybe Hanifin was involved in talks

 

[None Shall Pass]

Yeah, no thanks on Holtz being part of a trade for an old goalie. Woooooof

 

[AfroThunder396]

Not really reliable examples to support a perceived fear. Corey Crawford decided to retire out of the blue during a weird Covid schedule after leaving the only organization he ever played for. It's not like his play fell off.

Bernier got injured. So again, his play didn't tank due to age. Just a freak thing. Goalies have much more gentle aging curves than skaters.

Bobrovsky is 35 and led the Panthers to a cup at 34. He's also been great this year at 35 years old.

Tell that to Cory Schneider. He was cooked at 31 due to injuries.

Do you honestly believe that hip trauma and age are unrelated in butterfly goalies?

 

[forceten]

I don't even feel secure that Markstrom is elite for 3 seasons. It's just not a good move, unfortunately. A lot of goalies have fallen off at 34-35 years old or sooner.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Markstrom might not even be "elite" now and could fall right off a cliff as soon as his first game with a new team.

 

[Bleedred]

I think this is the 38485858585858585 time I’ve made this post since November or December, only you could swap Daws with Schmid, who I was saying it about back then.

Just play Daws more down the stretch. Stay status quo and play Vitek much more sparingly. They were doing that in January, until Ruff got really cute on Saturday night and we had the happy accident that was Vitek’s game in Carolina.

It’s too late to acquire a goalie for this year. And we may even pay more for that same goalie by trying to get him for the rest of this year than we would the same goalie in the offseason.

And we’re not nearly guaranteed a playoff spot. We’re always one loss away from some bullshit loss (Nashville tonight? Or the old men from Washington next week perhaps?) that sets us back another game.

So just go with what we have and give Daws the rope he got in January.

He has just one fewer 1 goal against game than Vitek does in like a third of the starts.

 

[Bleedred]

Markstrom is analytically having a career year.

His season last year wasn’t as bad as his actual numbers looked, but his runner-up Vezina season the year before also wasn’t as good as his actual numbers looked.

He’s been a pretty just over even goalie for much of his career.

This is the best year of his career. Next year may prove to be another just above or just under even year.

That’s still better than what nutcase Vitek has given us this year, but could be costly next year, especially with what we could be potentially giving up and how much Markstrom makes per year.

Furthermore, the cancer that is Dave Rogalski needs to be cut out before we acquire Markstrom is basically anyone else. He’s patient zero and infects anyone he even talks to.

 

[Saugus]

Fitz must be desperate for a goalie if we're inquiring about Elvis. Even as a bandaid I wouldn't be happy about that.

Markstrom is slightly better as a stopgap, but Holtz going in the deal feels like an overpayment that we would regret.

 

[Bleedred]

Any goalie that comes here it is an absolute must that Rogalski is sent out of here first.

There’s not a goalie coach in the league more deserving of losing their job than him right now.

He’s already been here more years than Melanson got here.

Some goalie coaches last 20 years with an organization like Benoit Allaire, Bob Essensa and a few others probably close to that, but this needs to be the end of Rogalski.

He’s a plague that could be ended now, if Fitz would just make the damn call to end this disastrous experiment.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Fitz must be desperate for a goalie if we're inquiring about Elvis. Even as a bandaid I wouldn't be happy about that.

Markstrom is slightly better as a stopgap, but Holtz going in the deal feels like an overpayment that we would regret.

Given how much Lindy hates Holtz, and how much Fitz loves Lindy, I fear they both do no see Holtz as an important piece.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Markstrom would in fact be a big add for this club for the next few seasons as he has been solid in net. But as others pointed out the trade has to be right for NJ given his age. Must tread carefully here.

 

[Bleedred]

I watched the post game interviews from last night just now and can’t believe my eyes.

I saw Daws give an interview.

I thought maybe the media relations staff put a ban on goalies speaking after games for us. You couldn’t even get Vitek to go in front of them this year for an all you can eat hibachi spread out there.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

so say the going rate now or in the summer for a goalie is a first and one of either holtz/casey who do you rather give up

fitz isn't going to give up mercer for a goalie that isn't "top level" so people have to chill with that. i do believe some type of combo of the 3 i mentioned above is the pieces that would get a deal done.

Neither with a first massive overpayment.....

 

[JimEIV]

Nevermind

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I'd rather wait and see how the goalies play under a sensible defensive system for a few weeks before sending a ton of assets to Calgary for an old guy and have to do this all over again in a year or two.

Early results are promising.

They make that trade and it looks like Holtz that's it .....If Markstrom goes down hill we are Fuc*ed.....We will need a homegrown talent because sounds like a first too so we will be asset poor.......they are looking at cashing in on his solid play because they have seen him sh*t the bed.

 

[JrFischer54]

I still don’t know how I feel about giving up on Holtz, who has many years of team control left, for 2 years of Markstrom.

I get how at least getting retention from the Flames makes it more palatable.

i'm not saying i love it either but i'm realistic. you have to give to get and if the "get" is something that is insanely hard to find (average goaltending) and something that is totally holding us back this year then you have to give up to get it man. i rather give up casey only because holtz is nhl ready player which we need.

3 years 5.4 left for this guy who didn't they bench? talk about red flags

It’s definitely worth the risk with retention. Without? I’m not offering anything. If it doesn’t work, you’ve clogged up your cap, blew your only real surplus assets for a goalie, and then still need a goalie. There’s definitely a big downside to a move like this.

what if the goalie they eventually get doesn't work out? we are right back in the same spot