Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[JimEIV]

It's probably complete recency bias, but I really like Hatakka a lot.

Could he be the guy with Siegs and Luke instead of Bahl? Will be interesting to watch how he develops.

Would really hope Bahl can further develop into a Siegenthaler level Dman for his size alone.

 

[McDuffz88]

I've noticed some of the logos have some terrible crimping going on from some of the pictures I've seen on social media. I wanted to see one in person before I copped. Let us know what you think when they arrive, but you should be good with the Adidas one regardless.

Yup I'll keep you posted. Mine won't arrive until end of Feb but I'm guessing it will be similar to my white away jersey. The way I can describe it is its lightweight (which makes it more comfortable) but you need to be careful washing it. If you do cold wash only on low spin and then hang dry. Avoid the dryer. That's where I made my mistake. After the dryer the logo has bubbles in it.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Would really hope Bahl can further develop into a Siegenthaler level Dman for his size alone.

I would hope so, as well. I certainly am not giving up on Bahl, but I've liked what I've seen from Hatakka in the early going.

 

[Andre Palot]

Unacceptable. If Nico is sad fire the entire front office // staff at years end

I now accept a Tanev, Hanifin, Coleman mega deal. Give them what they want

Sub Coleman. Add Marky Markstrom.

 

[tailfins]

Would really hope Bahl can further develop into a Siegenthaler level Dman for his size alone.

Honestly, I think Bahl becomes a "2nd pair in a pinch" defender in a few years. He seems exactly the kind of defensive D who comes into his own at around 26 and then everyone goes nuts for.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

It's badly marked up, but the stadium series is sold out everywhere right now and it's the only way to have one by the game I think.

So the Isles released some blank Adidas on their IslesLab site, their in house store.

Since the Devils Den is run by the shit show known as Fanatics, there aren't any to order there.

After the game will more be released do you know? I love the Devils one and would like to get one. I don't care if it's in time for the game.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I have a blank size 50 Addidas that is currently being processed online. It says arrival expected by the 16th.

I ended up getting a Nico addidas yesterday. If anyone wants the blank one let me know. $200 and I will ship it.

 

[JimEIV]

Honestly, I think Bahl becomes a "2nd pair in a pinch" defender in a few years. He seems exactly the kind of defensive D who comes into his own at around 26 and then everyone goes nuts for.

I think he can become that type of Dman...I just think the organization did him a big disservice forcing him to play up in the lineup so soon. He needed this season as a 3rd pairing/3rd Pk guy

He went 14 minutes last year to 17:31 minutes this year with only 48 games under his belt coming into the season. Just way too aggressive for his experience level and the type of player he is.

 

[JimEIV]

Sub Coleman. Add Marky Markstrom.

Speaking of Blake.... he's been phenomenal this season.

50 games - 40 points - 20 goals +22

4 shorthanded goals 6 shorthanded points.

Amazing. I wish he was still a Devil.

 

[McDuffz88]

So the Isles released some blank Adidas on their IslesLab site, their in house store.

Since the Devils Den is run by the shit show known as Fanatics, there aren't any to order there.

After the game will more be released do you know? I love the Devils one and would like to get one. I don't care if it's in time for the game.

I contacted the store today to ask. They told me they don't see a restock order and that because it's a special jersey they don't know if they will be getting more. They said they restock usually on Mon so they told me if they were going to order more by Monday will be the day they know by.

 

[StevenToddIves]

With Casey and 24 1st being at all time highs for value and Saros being on the relative cheap, I’m finally pro trade for him. With Hatakka looking quite good and Nemec, Hughes and Hamilton owning the PP the next 5 to 10 years what value does Casey bring to the team? A Sam Girard type?

Casey will be a lot better than Girard in my opinion. Girard was never as sound defensively as Casey, and Casey plays with a great deal more edge and compete to his game. Girard was always going to be a "monitored minute" type guy, but Casey is a guy you can trust on the ice with a one-goal lead in the final minutes against the opposition's top line.

Literally, the only knock against Casey is his size. That's it. With Girard, it was the fact his entire game is tailored to a sort of over reliance on his strengths (skating, puck handling, on-ice vision) while trying to offer sort of a passable facsimile of his weaknesses. Girard is kind of a good version of the prototypical "small, all-offense defenseman".

Casey can be more than that. I literally see him in the mold of a young Brian Rafalski or Kris Letang -- not as a player comparison (please don't assume this, folks), but as an undersized offense-first defender who can also play very well in the myriad aspects of the 200-foot game.

The last thing I want to say about Casey is he's one of the most versatile prospects I've seen in some time. Not only can he play either side defensively in any situation, but he's also been deployed as both a wing and center by both the US-NTDP and U of Michigan, and he's actually a very good forward as well. This is a guy who gives a coach the option of going 11-7 because you can just slot him up to your middle six if Plan A isn't working.

As @Guttersniped will certainly point out, I'm traditionally very critical of small, offensive d-men and my scouting bread-and-butter has always been projecting defensemen. The fact I'm so high on Seamus Casey is a guarantee of nothing of course, but hopefully it spurs a few people to at least give him another look. He's a heck of a prospect, right now my clear-cut #1 for the Devils.

 

[Andre Palot]

Casey will be a lot better than Girard in my opinion. Girard was never as sound defensively as Casey, and Casey plays with a great deal more edge and compete to his game. Girard was always going to be a "monitored minute" type guy, but Casey is a guy you can trust on the ice with a one-goal lead in the final minutes against the opposition's top line.

Literally, the only knock against Casey is his size. That's it. With Girard, it was the fact his entire game is tailored to a sort of over reliance on his strengths (skating, puck handling, on-ice vision) while trying to offer sort of a passable facsimile of his weaknesses. Girard is kind of a good version of the prototypical "small, all-offense defenseman".

Casey can be more than that. I literally see him in the mold of a young Brian Rafalski or Kris Letang -- not as a player comparison (please don't assume this, folks), but as an undersized offense-first defender who can also play very well in the myriad aspects of the 200-foot game.

The last thing I want to say about Casey is he's one of the most versatile prospects I've seen in some time. Not only can he play either side defensively in any situation, but he's also been deployed as both a wing and center by both the US-NTDP and U of Michigan, and he's actually a very good forward as well. This is a guy who gives a coach the option of going 11-7 because you can just slot him up to your middle six if Plan A isn't working.

As @Guttersniped will certainly point out, I'm traditionally very critical of small, offensive d-men and my scouting bread-and-butter has always been projecting defensemen. The fact I'm so high on Seamus Casey is a guarantee of nothing of course, but hopefully it spurs a few people to at least give him another look. He's a heck of a prospect, right now my clear-cut #1 for the Devils.

If you are normally so critical of smaller defensemen but you are still very high on Casey I view that of course, as a very good sign and a testament to the type of player he is along with his skill.

 

[HughesCorporation]

I'm still worried about our goaltending. I think we all should be.

"BREAKING NEWS"

 

[StevenToddIves]

If you are normally so critical of smaller defensemen but you are still very high on Casey I view that of course, as a very good sign and a testament to the type of player he is along with his skill.

I'm a bit weird about d-men who don't consider defending their top priority unless they are ELITE type offense generators, ie: a Makar or Karlsson. Luke Hughes is a guy who we can categorize this way.

It's got nothing to do with "size" per se, though being a big dude certainly has its advantages when playing defense at the highest hockey levels. I remember watching the Detroit Red Wings with Lindstom and Rafalski -- both smaller guys in a much-bigger NHL of yore -- and those guys were just impossible to get an inch of offense off of.

What I like most about Casey is that he's not even what I would qualify as a "risky" player. Defense is always his top priority. If he played with the "f#@k it, I'm going for the net" style of a Gostisbehere or DeAngelo-type, his scoring totals would be far, far higher.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Someone please capture a GIF of the replay of Haula scoring and immediately being swarmed by the bench, it was a nice moment. ESPN showed it before doing the three stars

 

[Guttersniped]

As @Guttersniped will certainly point out, I'm traditionally very critical of small, offensive d-men and my scouting bread-and-butter has always been projecting defensemen. The fact I'm so high on Seamus Casey is a guarantee of nothing of course, but hopefully it spurs a few people to at least give him another look. He's a heck of a prospect, right now my clear-cut #1 for the Devils.

 

[Triumph]

I think he can become that type of Dman...I just think the organization did him a big disservice forcing him to play up in the lineup so soon. He needed this season as a 3rd pairing/3rd Pk guy

He went 14 minutes last year to 17:31 minutes this year with only 48 games under his belt coming into the season. Just way too aggressive for his experience level and the type of player he is.

This is throwing a dart and painting a bullseye around it. How many young defensemen do you think get to stay in this league while playing <15 minutes a game in multiple seasons? It's not common at all.

 

[Guadana]

I didn't know that older players do better on the PP. Is there any analysis on that I can read? Kind of interested...makes sense in the same way defense is more of an acquired skill from reps and the ability to make quicker reads.

McDavid and Marcahnd PP points. I dont think Mcdavids peak was in his 20-22. Marchand?

And I dont think Jack was bad in his second season. Especially in circumstances. His first season? He wasnt ready. Kakko wasnt. Lafrenier wasnt. Stuzle was awful even if more productive. Slafkovsky wasnt. NHL is too tough for 18 yo babies now. Even Bedard when he was more productive, mostly was bad as 200 foot player and would hit his rookie wall if other wall wouldnt hit him before.

And you cant deny environment - there are a lot of different examples where different players started to play better when changed the team(or environment) - someone needs more ice time, someone needs better linemates and more pressure, someone needs easier tasks to grow, someone needs other coach etc. Because different players are different people and there are no rule for anybody. Jack was a boy. After his second season no one was surprised he started to play on the 100 points. level.

 

[longislanddevil]

Speaking of Blake.... he's been phenomenal this season.

50 games - 40 points - 20 goals +22

4 shorthanded goals 6 shorthanded points.

Amazing. I wish he was still a Devil.

Thank you for pointing this out. I had no idea he was having a career year.

Coleman>Henrique? I’m sure the price is higher, if Coleman is even made available. We could really use another center with McLeod’s “indefinite leave of absence.” Mercer is not a center at the NHL level
and Ruff seems to prefer Haula at wing.

 

[Devils Trap]

Thank you for pointing this out. I had no idea he was having a career year.

Coleman>Henrique? I’m sure the price is higher, if Coleman is even made available. We could really use another center with McLeod’s “indefinite leave of absence.” Mercer is not a center at the NHL level
and Ruff seems to prefer Haula at wing.

Oh I would absolutely LOVE Coleman over Henrique. Way better skater and more production but he will be pricier

 

[NjDevsRR]

Crazy how Coleman is 32 already. He was a late bloomer

 

[JimEIV]

This is throwing a dart and painting a bullseye around it. How many young defensemen do you think get to stay in this league while playing <15 minutes a game in multiple seasons? It's not common at all.

Multiple seasons? He came into this season with 48 regular season games of experience. And who mentioned anything about <15. It's nearly impossible to play <15 as a 3rd pairing/3rd PKer.

A single minute is not insignificant for a player with that little experience...he went up 3&1/2 minutes with 48 games under his belt.... that's simply too much too soon

 

[Guttersniped]

I didn't know that older players do better on the PP. Is there any analysis on that I can read? Kind of interested...makes sense in the same way defense is more of an acquired skill from reps and the ability to make quicker reads.

View attachment 816080View attachment 816085

McDavid and Marcahnd PP points. I dont think Mcdavids peak was in his 20-22. Marchand?

And I dont think Jack was bad in his second season. Especially in circumstances. His first season? He wasnt ready. Kakko wasnt. Lafrenier wasnt. Stuzle was awful even if more productive. Slafkovsky wasnt. NHL is too tough for 18 yo babies now. Even Bedard when he was more productive, mostly was bad as 200 foot player and would hit his rookie wall if other wall wouldnt hit him before.

And you cant deny environment - there are a lot of different examples where different players started to play better when changed the team(or environment) - someone needs more ice time, someone needs better linemates and more pressure, someone needs easier tasks to grow, someone needs other coach etc. Because different players are different people and there are no rule for anybody. Jack was a boy. After his second season no one was surprised he started to play on the 100 points. level.

You can’t see trends by looking at two of the biggest outliers currently in the NHL.

Sadly I can’t find Tulsky’s article about PP, the age curve and survivorship bias.

The graphs below are from a 2017 Hockey Graphs on the Age Curve.

I haven’t thought about this in a long while lol.

The early peak is only slightly later, the big difference is how the drop-off is much less on the PP in the late 20s/start of 30s.

One obvious factor is lack of speed isn’t an issue for older forwards on the PP.

Spoiler: The other charts from that article. Fun!

Overall

Even Strength Defense

Taking Penalties

Drawing Penalties

Face-offs

The graphs are from Part 1

A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 1)

How do NHL players age? When do they peak? How quickly do they decline? Questions about player aging in the NHL have been debated for years, and an incredible amount of research has already been do…

hockey-graphs.com

This is Part 2

A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 2)

In part 1 of this series, I looked at how NHL skaters age using the delta method with Dawson Sprigings’ WAR model. As mentioned in my previous article, there is still one major problem with the del…

hockey-graphs.com

 

[Triumph]

Multiple seasons? He came into this season with 48 regular season games of experience. And who mentioned anything about <15. It's nearly impossible to play <15 as a 3rd pairing/3rd PKer.

A single minute is not insignificant for a player with that little experience...he went up 3&1/2 minutes with 48 games under his belt.... that's simply too much too soon

Why do you insist on lying? Kevin Bahl had played 66 career regular season games coming into this season. He also played 11 playoff games.

You mentioned 15 minutes, when you said that Bahl got less than 15 minutes a game last season Almost nobody plays less than 15 minutes a game while being in the lineup every game. His ice time was almost always going to increase, or something bad would've happened.

Nonetheless, if Siegenthaler comes back in 2 weeks, Bahl will be back down to ~15 minutes a game or maybe even scratched entirely if Hatakka keeps playing well.

 

[forceten]

As @Guttersniped will certainly point out, I'm traditionally very critical of small, offensive d-men and my scouting bread-and-butter has always been projecting defensemen. The fact I'm so high on Seamus Casey is a guarantee of nothing of course, but hopefully it spurs a few people to at least give him another look. He's a heck of a prospect, right now my clear-cut #1 for the Devils.

I remember reading your profiles in his draft year and being sad because you were high on Chesley and he was taken by Washington with the pick we swapped them, but then super excited when we nabbed Casey because you were so high on him.