Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[Guadana]

I agree, I just think an elite goalie is more valuable than a good 2nd line winger.

Im ok with trading Mercer for Saros, but Im not so sure. Teams doing well without elite goalies and more often teams without no elite goalie are winning championship. Mostly they have good or average but hot goalie, its better to have depth on the goalie position. But there were no teams with bad depth with the cup. Mercer with his goal scoring ability and some takeaway\forechecking skills can develop his game and being solid complimentary scoring forechecking winger for any line. The answer isn't as obvious as it looks.

 

[Devilsfan992]

It's a very weird spot for the deadline. Do you buy when you're that close? Is that too high to sell? I don't think we are selling unless we really fall off over the next three weeks, but I still don't love buying unless it's some multi year acquisitions (no rentals).

This team is too talented to waste away a year. Even if we're not Stanley Cup contenders, it is beneficial to this young team to make the playoffs.

If Dougie is ready to go come playoff times, we can even make some noise.

But if we want to go far, we need a goalie.

 

[devilsblood]

It's a very weird spot for the deadline. Do you buy when you're that close? Is that too high to sell? I don't think we are selling unless we really fall off over the next three weeks, but I still don't love buying unless it's some multi year acquisitions (no rentals).

Can't sell 2 points back of a playoff spot with 20 something games to go. That would be garbage.

Don't care what some computer thinks our odds are.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Or a really shitty defense with forwards that do a lot of cheating in their own zone...

I guess you can say it's up to coach to get them to play the right way...but I think we are kidding ourselves thinking we are going to get similar results to last year with Bahl, Nemec and Luke playing prominent roles in the top 4.

I mean you’re acknowledging it…whose responsibility is it to make sure forwards aren’t cheating in their own zone when there’s three rookies on D and a sieve in net?

 

[JimEIV]

I mean you’re acknowledging it…whose responsibility is it to make sure forwards aren’t cheating in their own zone when there’s three rookies on D and a sieve in net?

There's a reason Jack likes Lindy.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Trust your guys Fitz

I'd run with Daws until the end of the season. If he falters we do something in the summer. Not in the least bit interested in trading assets for 34 year goaltender to make a half-assed run at the playoffs.

Well said.....

 

[devilsblood]

Aight, so a little more leg work.

Vitek has averaged 16:24 per game while trailing this season, which out of 63 goalies who have played at least 200 minutes while trailing, is the 41st most.

Despite giving up the first goal against a ton, he is just not on the ice a whole lot while trailing.

And why has he played so few minutes while trailing despite so often giving up the first goal? Because the Devils score a shit ton while playing from behind when he is on the ice. 2nd best rate in the league for any goalie. (the best rate is Boston for Ullmark, so consider that)

Further the Devils score at the highest rate for Vitek while down 1, then any team does for any goalie.
Despite Vitek playing the 21st most minutes while down 1, the Devils have scored 28 goals for him while down 1, best in the league by 5. 2nd best is Col for Georgiev with 23.

So the idea that Devils score a bunch of meaningless goals for Vitek? Baseless.

 

[JimEIV]

Aight, so a little more leg work.

Vitek has averaged 16:24 per game while trailing this season, which out of 63 goalies who have played at least 200 minutes while trailing, is the 41st most.

Despite giving up the first goal against a ton, he is just not on the ice a whole lot while trailing.

And why has he played so few minutes while trailing despite so often giving up the first goal? Because the Devils score a shit ton while playing from behind when he is on the ice. 2nd best rate in the league for any goalie. (the best rate is Boston for Ullmark, so consider that)

Further the Devils score at the highest rate for Vitek while down 1, then any team does for any goalie.
Despite Vitek playing the 21st most minutes while down 1, the Devils have scored 28 goals for him while down 1, best in the league by 5. 2nd best is Col for Georgiev with 23.

So the idea that Devils score a bunch of meaningless goals for Vitek? Baseless.

This is meaningless. When down one? This means absolutely nothing....The Devil's scoring the most goals when down 1 tells me they also probably give up the first goal more than anyone. This doesn't show anything.

All this says is they manage to tie the game a lot, that's it....but also means they are playing from behind a lot ....which flies in the face of the idea of "goal support "

 

[devilsblood]

This is meaningless. When down one? This means absolutely nothing....The Devil's scoring the most goals when down 1 tells me they also probably give up the first goal more than anyone. This doesn't show anything.

All this says is they manage to tie the game a lot, that's it....but also means they are playing from behind a lot ....which flies in the face of the idea of "goal support "

We know they give up the first goal more then anyone. Which goes back to goal tending. At least that there is a strong argument for that.

But we should be able to agree the Devils scoring "meaningless goals" is just you making stuff up. Nothing to support that idea.

Semantics on "goal support" is just that, semantics.

 

[VoidCreature]

Wrong thread, haha.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This is vintage Jim posting

 

[JimEIV]

We know they give up the first goal more then anyone. Which goes back to goal tending. At least that there is a strong argument for that.

But we should be able to agree the Devils scoring "meaningless goals" is just you making stuff up. Nothing to support that idea.

Semantics on "goal support" is just that, semantics.

No, I don't agree that "meaningless goals" are made up... anyone who has watched this team knows that we get games closer than they really were.

I would love to know the number of goals we score when down by two or more after 35 or 40 minutes of play. Those are the meaningless goals as a definition. We score a lot of them.

 

[MartyOwns]

This is vintage Jim posting

i’ve realized that getting older is not taking the bait. i wish i could talk to me 10 years ago.

 

[MadDevil]

i’ve realized that getting older is not taking the bait. i wish i could talk to me 10 years ago.

Almost 40 year old me would probably punch 20 year old me in the face.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Almost 40 year old me would probably punch 20 year old me in the face.

Were you even on the internet in 2007 if you don't cringe thinking about it?

 

[devilsblood]

No, I don't agree that "meaningless goals" are made up... anyone who has watches this team knows that we get games closer than they really were.

I love to know the number of goals we score when down by two or more after 35 or 40 minutes of play. Those are the meaningless goals as a definition. We score a lot of them.

Of the 105 goals scored for Vitek, only 12 have come while trailing by more then 1. How many are after 35 or 40 minutes? I'll guess between 6-8.

Is that a lot? No.

Is a goal that brings a team within one with 20 or 10 or even 5 minutes to go meaningless? Not sure how anyone would argue that.

i’ve realized that getting older is not taking the bait. i wish i could talk to me 10 years ago.

I like the debate. Especially when I can dominate it like this.

 

[dls]

After digesting the back and forth and "rumors" its safe to say that to transact on a Markstrom/Saros will be a haul, at least for now. The decision to part with talent like Mercer, Holtz, Casey and others is really a critical one at this juncture because clearly this is not a championship-caliber team without more reliable goaltending AND without upgrading some soft spots in the Defence.

Even with a full healthy team the defense is still suspect and missing a piece in my opinion if we really want to be a contendor during Luke and Nemec's ELC's.

As much as i like Mercer he is going from incredible value on his ELC to close to market after this year with his next extension. So the question is really regatding roster construct. What is the best use of the ~10mm in salary cap that Mercer + Vitek will take up? a goalie + another top 4 LD defensemen?

What will move the needle more? Putting aside the emotional connection of Mercer, he's a great player been proven - goes in every night gives it his all. will be a tough loss but a necessary one for this team to really take the next steps.

 

[My3Sons]

Almost 40 year old me would probably punch 20 year old me in the face.

Almost 40? OMG what is wrong with you? Time to go out to sea on an ice floe grandpa. You should be ashamed of yourself trying to pass yourself off as a real human. 40. How pathetic. Do us all a favor and head out to dinner at 4:30 before going to sleep at 7.

 

[JimEIV]

Of the 105 goals scored for Vitek, only 12 have come while trailing by more then 1. How many are after 35 or 40 minutes? I'll guess between 6-8.

Is that a lot? No.

Is a goal that brings a team within one with 20 or 10 or even 5 minutes to go meaningless? Not sure how anyone would argue that.


I like the debate. Especially when I can dominate it like this.

Only 12? That means at least 12 times times in Vitek's 29 starts he's been down by two or more.

And again that still doesn't tell us anything other than they are playing from behind a lot.

Are those wins or losses? When do they come? That doesn't answer the garbage goal question...but just look at the numbers you provided ... 6 or 8 goals of 105 goals... That's 5.7 to 7.6% of the goals for Vitek are goals from way behind....that's not insignificant.

 

[devilsblood]

Only 12? That means at least 12 times times in Vitek's 29 starts he's been down by two or more.

And again that still doesn't tell us anything other than they are playing from behind a lot.

Are those wins or losses? When do they come? That doesn't answer the garbage goal question...but just look at the numbers you provided ... 6 or 8 goals of 105 goals... That's 5.7 to 7.6% of the goals for Vitek are goals from way behind....that's not insignificant.

No it doesn't. C'mon man, this isn't fun if you work on such a low level.

 

[NjDevsRR]

F this current tangent. I am still high off the stadium game

 

[JimEIV]

No it doesn't. C'mon man, this isn't fun if you work on such a low level.

It absolutely does mean 12 times. Sure it can happen multiple times in a game. It's still 12 times

 

[Andre Palot]

Were you even on the internet in 2007 if you don't cringe thinking about it?

'THIS PARTY DOESN'T HAVE LEMONS AT ALL!!!'

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

No arguing till Monday night should be a rule right now

 

[JrFischer54]

This is a ridiculous assertion. Jack may need to bulk up - if he does, he will almost certainly lose speed. That said, classifying what has got him to this point as mere talent is discounting everything that didn't come natural to him - especially shooting the puck.

Rather him lose speed then games played.