Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[Cheddabombs]

The success of last year was, in regards to staff, like 65-70 percent because of Brunette.

Need to see the math on this one

 

[Andre Palot]

Need to see the math on this one

When I'm sober I'll give it to you. Unless you like Steiner math.

 

[Bleedred]

The success of last year was, in regards to staff, like 65-70 percent because of Brunette.

The rush game definitely looked a whole hell of a lot better. We were dangerous on almost every shift.

Other have pointed to team speed not being where it was last year, which would definitely weaken our rush game.

I've always thought he was at the very least a co-pilot to Ruff, more than just a back seat guy to Ruff, if not because our team last year looked almost identical to Brunette's 21-22 Panthers.

Of course, I can't actually prove any of that, that Brunette was a clear co-pilot. I could be totally wrong on that. I actually hope I am wrong on that.

If Green is a co-pilot and not a back seat guy then we're really f***ed, because he was trash in Vancouver. Hopefully our compromised rush game is a team that's slower than last year's team and nothing more. Because Green is almost definitely going to be here next year, whether it's in the same role or possibly as Ruff's heir (YUCK!) so hoping it's just a matter of coincidence all the way around.

 

[guitarguyvic]

52 wins in spite of coaching? Interesting take.

It was one season. Outliers happen. Especially in hockey.

I’m not sure why this is so hard for everyone to believe. The flaws in Lindy’s system were apparent last year too. We had super fast talented players who could make great individual plays to mitigate the flaws. That’s what it comes down to.

Look at what happens on our breakouts. Every single d-man - not just the rookies - consistently attempt risky passes right through the middle of the ice. They consistently attack the puck carrier behind the net and leave the slot unprotected which a forward who is less defensively talented has to read and react to in seconds. When they are pinned along the boards, there is little support to win the battle and even less support to find an outlet if they do win the battle. The forwards are constantly flying the zone before full control
Is achieved, because in Lindy’s system all that matters is getting up the ice ASAP no matter who’s on the ice or the context. Lack of support results in regular turnovers which turn into a shitshow as you’re now relying on flat footed rookie d-men to defend on their own as forwards who are past the blue line who are also now flat footed have to recover.

I could go on and on. You can look at the DZ/NZ strategy and observe the issues completely independent of the final scores in these games. This is not how top caliber teams play. It is not a long-term strategy for success in the best league in the world. Other teams also have talented players who will feast on this kind of ineptitude and sloppiness. One good outlier season doesn’t change the reality.

 

[Bleedred]

I think it's hard to fire Ruff for this year, unless we continue to look like we did last night even after Jack gets back and it costs us A LOT of games down the stretch.

But we'll probably win our fair share of games when Jack gets back. We've even won more games than it sometimes felt we would the last few weeks. Like the Vegas game. The fact that we even scored as many goals as we did last night with this compromised lineup and how badly we were outplayed.

And many other times earlier in the year, like that Islanders game we won last minute, same with the first Vancouver game. And there's even been quite a few games where we've lost, but made it look like we were gonna get something out of it. Last night's game is almost one of those. The second Vancouver game. Even one of those disaster games against Washington early in the year, where we exploded for 3 or 4 goals in like 5 minutes, yet still got absolutely nothing out of that game.

So basically I expect we'll be picking up a decent amount of wins when Jack returns. Especially if we get better goaltending post-all star break than we've gotten pre-all star break. It probably can't be any worse than what we've gotten so far, even if it doesn't get any better.

Other than that, I'm still surprised Ruff survived 21-22 and didn't go out the door with the other two stooges at the end of the year. I mean, I guess he had some excuses? 20-21 was a shortened season. 21-22 saw Jack Hughes miss about 40% of the games, on top of goalie problems and having to use guys like Jon Gillies and Andrew Hammond. That probably bought Ruff another crack at it.

 

[guitarguyvic]

That’s the thing right…there’s always gonna be injuries in this league. Most seasons are not gonna be like last year. That’s why using the injury excuse is bad reasoning.

 

[Andre Palot]

The rush game definitely looked a whole hell of a lot better. We were dangerous on almost every shift.

Other have pointed to team speed not being where it was last year, which would definitely weaken our rush game.

I've always thought he was at the very least a co-pilot to Ruff, more than just a back seat guy to Ruff, if not because our team last year looked almost identical to Brunette's 21-22 Panthers.

Of course, I can't actually prove any of that, that Brunette was a clear co-pilot. I could be totally wrong on that. I actually hope I am wrong on that.

If Green is a co-pilot and not a back seat guy then we're really f***ed, because he was trash in Vancouver. Hopefully our compromised rush game is a team that's slower than last year's team and nothing more. Because Green is almost definitely going to be here next year, whether it's in the same role or possibly as Ruff's heir (YUCK!) so hoping it's just a matter of coincidence all the way around.

What you said, lil d00d

 

[Bleedred]

But to follow up my last post, Jack is really the only significant piece on forward/scoring that we're missing as of last night (not counting Haula, who was a one game personal scratch), other than Dougie who has been out for 2 months now and isn't coming back this year, if I had to guess.

There's a couple of other defensemen missing. One of them isn't even any good anymore and the other certainly wasn't good this year.

We lost something significant in the piece of shit that took his ''Leave of absence'' but a year ago I don't think we would have said ''Oh man! We're gonna be losing some games without McLeod!'' but this year he masqueraded as a pretty good player or maybe he was legitimately going to become a significant player and wasn't just having an up year (he certainly was in goal scoring), but I don't think his absence is gonna cost us much once we get Jack back.

Last night's lineup may have been the worst we've iced this season, when you consider Haula also didn't play.

Nosek won't be worth much, but he should be an upgrade over Dowling, Willman, Tierney, etc.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It was one season. Outliers happen. Especially in hockey.

I’m not sure why this is so hard for everyone to believe. The flaws in Lindy’s system were apparent last year too. We had super fast talented players who could make great individual plays to mitigate the flaws. That’s what it comes down to.

Look at what happens on our breakouts. Every single d-man - not just the rookies - consistently attempt risky passes right through the middle of the ice. They consistently attack the puck carrier behind the net and leave the slot unprotected which a forward who is less defensively talented has to read and react to in seconds. When they are pinned along the boards, there is little support to win the battle and even less support to find an outlet if they do win the battle. The forwards are constantly flying the zone before full control
Is achieved, because in Lindy’s system all that matters is getting up the ice ASAP no matter who’s on the ice or the context. Lack of support results in regular turnovers which turn into a shitshow as you’re now relying on flat footed rookie d-men to defend on their own as forwards who are past the blue line who are also now flat footed have to recover.

I could go on and on. You can look at the DZ/NZ strategy and observe the issues completely independent of the final scores in these games. This is not how top caliber teams play. It is not a long-term strategy for success in the best league in the world. Other teams also have talented players who will feast on this kind of ineptitude and sloppiness. One good outlier season doesn’t change the reality.

This year has the characteristics of an outlier season, not last year. Elite by every conceivable metric, didn’t ride a high PDO. I guess we just lucked into that.

But this year, a season where half the team is either injured or spontaneously disappears — that’s a normal, non-outlier year. And the shortened COVID season with a young team or the season with every goalie injured, that’s the real Lindy Ruff Devils. The season where we weren’t decimated is the outlier.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That’s the thing right…there’s always gonna be injuries in this league. Most seasons are not gonna be like last year. That’s why using the injury excuse is bad reasoning.

I don't think injuries is an excuse usually, but come on dude lol we've lost basically every important player for a month or more this year, and just lost maybe our most consistent forward this season to (likely) arrest. And most of these were all concurrently.

Hughes, Hischier, Meier, Hamilton, Siegenthaler, Palat, Nosek all have missed around a month or more.

This is way more than "every team has injuries". Last year they were on one total end of the spectrum with basically being completely healthy outside of Palat, and this year they are at the complete opposite end of that. Usually it is somewhere in the middle. We had a career AHLer playing 2C last night. That isnt normal.

 

[Bleedred]

As someone who has no use for Ruff, I don't think Ruff could FUBAR things with a somewhat healthy lineup if he comes back next year.

 

[Triumph]

That’s the thing right…there’s always gonna be injuries in this league. Most seasons are not gonna be like last year. That’s why using the injury excuse is bad reasoning.

Most seasons are not going to be like this year either. But you will always think that injuries are 'an excuse' no matter how bad this gets.

 

[Blender]

 

[NjDevsRR]

Most seasons won’t be like last season AND this season, injury wise. Two extremes

 

[My3Sons]

This has been an incredibly successful franchise in terms of wins in the past....teams that won championships and had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters...

Yet this system set the franchise win record and now it's inept? That makes zero sense. None whatsoever.

A big loss in team speed...team looks pedestrian most night in terms of speed...big down grade in defense and of course injuries that we experienced almost none of last year, seems a much more logical explanation than going from record settings wins to in inept coaching in less than a year.

I think you answered your own question about why the system might be broken. If it’s geared to a fast decisive roster and the roster this season is slower and less decisive it’s not the right system anymore. You can’t continue to run a 3-4 with success if you lose your two mobile outside linebackers. I think Ruff is stubborn. Whatever they are doing isn’t working and the only adjustment has been to move around a couple of deck chairs? Meh. None of that changes the injuries or the goaltending or the general loss of experience or the individual struggles but it isn’t something that you can point to as a strength as I see it.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Even when this team has been healthy this season they still looked way less engaged than last year's team. Think Fitz should make it a priority to add some players that can play with speed and a competitive edge, this team was at it's best last season when they were hounding teams with their speed and forechecking and that hasn't been the case this season.

 

[forceten]

Most seasons won’t be like last season AND this season, injury wise. Two extremes

It was the best of seasons, it was the worst of seasons. It was the season of speed, it was the season of sluggard. It was the epoch of Ruff's strength, it was the epoch of Ruff's failings. It was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

 

[My3Sons]

It was the best of seasons, it was the worst of seasons. It was the season of speed, it was the season of sluggard. It was the epoch of Ruff's strength, it was the epoch of Ruff's failings. It was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

It’s certainly the winter of our discontent.

 

[NjDevsRR]

It was the best of seasons, it was the worst of seasons. It was the season of speed, it was the season of sluggard. It was the epoch of Ruff's strength, it was the epoch of Ruff's failings. It was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

 

[Blender]

It was the best of seasons, it was the worst of seasons. It was the season of speed, it was the season of sluggard. It was the epoch of Ruff's strength, it was the epoch of Ruff's failings. It was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

A Tale of Two Danos OH MY

 

[NjDevsRR]

A Tale of Two Danos OH MY

Maybe we should all start eating tacos again post ASG. Get those last season vibes back. Made some carne asada today. Skirt steak marinated overnight with lime juice, olive oil, garlic and Mexican oregano.

 

[Devils Trap]

Apparently people in Tampa behind the bench were saying Ruff barely says anything on the bench to the team.

The poor stars, it seems like Nico has had enough of him. I dont quite understand how he is still here really

 

[Andre Palot]

View attachment 812256



Maybe we should all start eating tacos again post ASG. Get those last season vibes back. Made some carne asada today. Skirt steak marinated overnight with lime juice, olive oil, garlic and Mexican oregano.
View attachment 812258

El Mejanos in Denville has really great El Pastor. Their Pack-a-Punch burrito is extremely flavorful but not for the faint of heart. Very spicy.

 

[Guttersniped]

We need a proven NHL playoff coach at this point. Stop with the experiments. We can't waste any more years. We dropped the ball when Torts was available. Fitz needs to wake up and fire Lindy right now. There's 0 path to the playoffs with Ruff as a coach & I don't want to write off the season due to "injuries" or "goalie issues". There's 0 path to a cup with Ruff as a coach. We have an extremely talented top 6 without Hughes that's still better than most of the league. Nico, Bratt, Mercer, Meier, Toffoli, Holtz. That's not chump change. That's an actual top 6. I'm so over Lindy at this point. I love Fitz but he's making a huge mistake riding his career on Ruffs back. If it was me I would be approaching Fitz going either fire Ruff or if you don't than you can go with him. We have our core & they're in their primes. Don't f**k this up by riding a dead beat of a coach.

I thought people complained about NHL retread coaches.

We need a “proven NHL coach”. That sort of thinking isn’t how Cooper, Bednar, Sullivan, Brind’Amour etc got hired.

I guess those were experiments too. Or maybe you don’t have to hire the most famous coach that fans know.

Also, I’m not super into Ruff either, but if you thought this team with Haula out after losing Jack and you know who, then you underestimate the importance of centers. And that’s on top of the defense being a mess/ green as hell and our goalie situation. Hamilton was big loss, sorry, he was. And Meier still not contributing isn’t helping either.

That’s what is currently f***ing things up.

 

[My3Sons]

Apparently people in Tampa behind the bench were saying Ruff barely says anything on the bench to the team.

The poor stars, it seems like Nico has had enough of him. I dont quite understand how he is still here really

Ruff has given them a system. Now it’s up to Alex Holtz to make sure everyone excutes it properly. Why does Ruff need to micromanage Holtz?