Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part II

[Devs3cups]

That video was right after his horrendous giveaway. So yes, frustration abound but that was clearly after his own f*** up. It was a terrible pass

Thanks for the context! I wasn’t watching the game last night.

 

[devilsblood]

losing Brendan Smith

Losing Nosek is similar to losing Smith imo.

With the 2 of them our PK is probably pretty good though.

 

[devilsblood]

The most concerning thing about Ruff right now is with the injuries they look like the Blackhawks or a bottom of the standings team in terms of getting outshot until score affects kick-in. Even with the injuries, this team should better than that.

Do you know who our 2nd line center was last night?

 

[JimEIV]

I don't care that we had a one off great year. That's not the bar for success. The bar for success is consistent good hockey that can win you a cup which we can't do under Ruff. We play a horrible sloppy game that will NEVER win us a cup. With the amount of talent we have we were going to play that good last year under any coach. We had an entire roster that was 100% healthy all hitting career years with a d corps that was all Vets. That was a one off. Teams rarely get that lucky when it comes to injuries. You really think Ruff was the catalyst for last year? It wasn't Ruff. We were just that talented of a roster and we STILL are. Did Ruff develop our core nicely? Yea but that window has passed. Ruff was never supposed to be here for long term. He wasn't even supposed to be here for the playoffs. He was strictly hired to develop our core. His job is done. The torch needs to be passed to someone else that can take our team to the next level. Ruff ain't that guy. You have low expectations of this team. You're sitting here telling me a 2nd OA is playing good because of Ruff. The dude got picked 2OA for a reason. Hughes, Nemec etc talent would of came through no matter what. Stop with the injury excuses. It's a loser mentality excuse. Even with the injuries we should be a top team. We have Nico, Bratt, Meier, Toffoli, Mercer, Palat, Holtz. You can't sit here and tell me that isn't one of the more talented top 6 in the league so stop with the injury card. It's a pathetic excuse. Yea we don't have Hughes but our whole system shouldn't be riding the back of one player. That's a system designed to fail. When it comes to the goaltending I think we can bring in a legitimate starting goalie & their stats will tank. Why? Because our system is horrible and makes it hard for the d-men and even harder for the goalie. No a coach isn't going to have "magical healing powers" but a real coach will have us playing NHL hockey with a good system and looking inspired. Right now I watch a team that looks defeated before they step onto the ice and extremely sloppy play.

I would argue consistency is impossible with 3 (basically) rookie defensemen and Hotz in the lineup on a regular basis. No goalie or coach is going to fix that. Those defenders need time and reputations - only time can do it -there are no shortcuts to it.

People have been yelling about coaching all year making believe that Bahl wasn't a problem earlier in the year and that Luke hasn't been incredibly loose defensively and Nemec in a similar boat....these guys won't hit their full stride for another year or two and no coach can hide that amount of inexperience...the defense is on a completely different time table from the rest of the team... system can't fix that.

 

[devilsblood]

I would argue consistency is impossible with 3 (basically) rookie defensemen and Hotz in the lineup on a regular basis. No goalie or coach is going to fix that. Those defenders need time and reputations - only time can do it -there are no shortcuts to it.

People have been yelling about coaching all year making believe that Bahl wasn't a problem earlier in the year and that Luke hasn't been incredibly loose defensively and Nemec in a similar boat....these guys won't hit their full stride for another year or two and no coach can hide that amount of inexperience...the defense is on a completely different time table from the rest of the team... system can't fix that.

Hughes at one point was above criticism because of his overall talent and the overall numbers he was putting up. And fans turned a blind eye to the gaffe's.

Nemec is now getting a similar benefit of the doubt.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Jim back in time for the playoff run

 

[TrufleShufle]

I would argue consistency is impossible with 3 (basically) rookie defensemen and Hotz in the lineup on a regular basis. No goalie or coach is going to fix that. Those defenders need time and reputations - only time can do it -there are no shortcuts to it.

People have been yelling about coaching all year making believe that Bahl wasn't a problem earlier in the year and that Luke hasn't been incredibly loose defensively and Nemec in a similar boat....these guys won't hit their full stride for another year or two and no coach can hide that amount of inexperience...the defense is on a completely different time table from the rest of the team... system can't fix that.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would argue consistency is impossible with 3 (basically) rookie defensemen and Hotz in the lineup on a regular basis. No goalie or coach is going to fix that. Those defenders need time and reputations - only time can do it -there are no shortcuts to it.

People have been yelling about coaching all year making believe that Bahl wasn't a problem earlier in the year and that Luke hasn't been incredibly loose defensively and Nemec in a similar boat....these guys won't hit their full stride for another year or two and no coach can hide that amount of inexperience...the defense is on a completely different time table from the rest of the team... system can't fix that.

Luke this year is already better than Severson, and Nemec is better than Graves was last year.

 

[My3Sons]

Until Ruff completely loses the room he likely isn’t going anywhere. Fitz obviously agrees with Ruff’s basic system and approach. My guess is he chalks up losing to injuries some subpar goalie play and poor execution by a young defense. I am skeptical he sees the flaws with the style of play. The reality is a good enough team can run almost any system and in the abstract Ruff’s swarm probably presents some perceived advantages that the way it is drawn up can be compensated for. Of course the reality is much different but they can convince themselves that the system worked well last season.

 

[Forge]

Nemec is now getting a similar benefit of the doubt.

Nemec has had a bit of a rough ride it feels like since the Montreal game

But before that he was much better than I had expected.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Nemec has had a bit of a rough ride it feels like since the Montreal game

But before that he was much better than I had expected.

I attribute it to really good players only being able to do so much while everything around them continues to crumble.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I don't care that we had a one off great year. That's not the bar for success. The bar for success is consistent good hockey that can win you a cup which we can't do under Ruff. We play a horrible sloppy game that will NEVER win us a cup. With the amount of talent we have we were going to play that good last year under any coach. We had an entire roster that was 100% healthy all hitting career years with a d corps that was all Vets. That was a one off. Teams rarely get that lucky when it comes to injuries. You really think Ruff was the catalyst for last year? It wasn't Ruff. We were just that talented of a roster and we STILL are. Did Ruff develop our core nicely? Yea but that window has passed. Ruff was never supposed to be here for long term. He wasn't even supposed to be here for the playoffs. He was strictly hired to develop our core. His job is done. The torch needs to be passed to someone else that can take our team to the next level. Ruff ain't that guy. You have low expectations of this team. You're sitting here telling me a 2nd OA is playing good because of Ruff. The dude got picked 2OA for a reason. Hughes, Nemec etc talent would of came through no matter what. Stop with the injury excuses. It's a loser mentality excuse. Even with the injuries we should be a top team. We have Nico, Bratt, Meier, Toffoli, Mercer, Palat, Holtz. You can't sit here and tell me that isn't one of the more talented top 6 in the league so stop with the injury card. It's a pathetic excuse. Yea we don't have Hughes but our whole system shouldn't be riding the back of one player. That's a system designed to fail. When it comes to the goaltending I think we can bring in a legitimate starting goalie & their stats will tank. Why? Because our system is horrible and makes it hard for the d-men and even harder for the goalie. No a coach isn't going to have "magical healing powers" but a real coach will have us playing NHL hockey with a good system and looking inspired. Right now I watch a team that looks defeated before they step onto the ice and extremely sloppy play.

Dowling was our 2C yesterday. It isn’t an excuse, it is the reason we aren’t playing well. That is definitely not even close to one of the most talented top 6s in the league, especially considering Timo is a horrendous player this year bc of injury.

You’ve said it yourself — you’ve wanted Lindy gone for years. Obviously you’ll use anything against him and completely ignore the amazing year they had last year. I don’t even like Lindy but you’re being insanely unfair to him.

 

[Guadana]

I would argue consistency is impossible with 3 (basically) rookie defensemen and Hotz in the lineup on a regular basis. No goalie or coach is going to fix that. Those defenders need time and reputations - only time can do it -there are no shortcuts to it.

People have been yelling about coaching all year making believe that Bahl wasn't a problem earlier in the year and that Luke hasn't been incredibly loose defensively and Nemec in a similar boat....these guys won't hit their full stride for another year or two and no coach can hide that amount of inexperience...the defense is on a completely different time table from the rest of the team... system can't fix that.

Happy to see you back! (its not irony, post-irpny, meta-irony etc)

 

[Triumph]

Luke this year is already better than Severson, and Nemec is better than Graves was last year.

That's different than saying they are more consistent, though. There's definitely some pretty big ups and downs to their game. Nemec in particular could really use this break.

 

[The Grinder]

Jim brings up a good point that I also think contributes to something some of us might not want to contemplate but Fitz seems to recognize - This is. still a development year for this team.

Can you compete while also working multiple rookies into the lineup? Absolutely, but not with the injuries and not with this goaltending. I don’t really buy that Luke and Nemec are already better than last years versions of Graves and Sevs. Also there is a huge difference in having the latter playing in their correct spots in the lineup than thrusting two rookies into top minutes they aren’t ready for.

Fitz is trying in the market to find some players that could work, but the prices for our needs might be too high for him and he doesn’t want to jeopardize the future to make a run this year where the team is telling him their not ready anyways.

 

[Blackjack]

The team currently doesn’t look like they could play at that pace, no. Would a Penguins team down Crosby and Karlsson look like they could play at a 105 point pace? I don’t think so. Probably closer to an 80 point pace.

We should be miles ahead of the penguins

 

[JimEIV]

This has been an incredibly successful franchise in terms of wins in the past....teams that won championships and had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters...

Yet this system set the franchise win record and now it's inept? That makes zero sense. None whatsoever.

A big loss in team speed...team looks pedestrian most night in terms of speed...big down grade in defense and of course injuries that we experienced almost none of last year, seems a much more logical explanation than going from record settings wins to in inept coaching in less than a year.

 

[Blackjack]

That's different than saying they are more consistent, though. There's definitely some pretty big ups and downs to their game. Nemec in particular could really use this break.

Yeah, if there’s one thing that Severson and Graves didn’t have, it was ups and downs.

This has been an incredibly successful franchise in terms of wins in the past....teams that won championships and had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters...

Yet this system set the franchise win record and now it's inept? That makes zero sense. Not whatsoever.

A big loss in team speed...team looks pedestrian most night in terms of speed...big down grade in defense and of course injuries that we experienced almost none of last year, seems a much more logical explanation than going from record settings wins to in inept coaching in less than a year.

The coaching was also inept last year, the team won in spite of Ruff

 

[devilsblood]

That's different than saying they are more consistent, though. There's definitely some pretty big ups and downs to their game. Nemec in particular could really use this break.

Pretty good summation.

Overall better(maybe, I'm not really sure about that) but very high and low.

 

[NjDevsRR]

We should be miles ahead of the penguins

If we had a normal injury season we definitely would be 8-10 pts ahead

 

[RNCDevil]

I am hoping some time off, for the Devils, and fans, is cathartic. Happy Sunday folks.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We should be miles ahead of the penguins

We should be better than them. Minus our 22 goal defenseman? Then it’s closer. Minus Jack for a substantial part of the year? Then I’m not so sure we should even be expected to be better.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah, if there’s one thing that Severson and Graves didn’t have, it was ups and downs.



The coaching was also inept last year, the team won in spite of Ruff

52 wins in spite of coaching? Interesting take.

 

[jkrdevil]

This has been an incredibly successful franchise in terms of wins in the past....teams that won championships and had multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters...

Yet this system set the franchise win record and now it's inept? That makes zero sense. None whatsoever.

A big loss in team speed...team looks pedestrian most night in terms of speed...big down grade in defense and of course injuries that we experienced almost none of last year, seems a much more logical explanation than going from record settings wins to in inept coaching in less than a year.

I don’t disagree, especially the loss of team speed part. I will push back on saying the team is running the exact same system as last year a bit. Assistant coaches play a role in x’a and o’s and do have imprint on overall systems as a result. Especially when it comes to making adjustments. Those changes at the margins probably make an impact, after all there are only so many hockey systems out there as a free flow game. So it is the same base system, but the adjusts and tweaks may be different.

Again that isn’t to say what you post is wrong, but I have seen several people say something along those lines and I don’t think it is 100% accurate. How you adjust and tweak things is a big part of coaching.

 

[Andre Palot]

The success of last year was, in regards to staff, like 65-70 percent because of Brunette.