Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season begins!

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SteveCangialosi123

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Who are the three worst?! Carolina, Edmonton, ???

And I’d still like to see the explanation for the same two goalies play going down dramatically. If it were just Vitek you could attribute it to the playoffs but Schmid too?!
Schmid has 39 career NHL games and was a .905 guy in the AHL last year. It’s not the most outlandish thing for him to just be not that good. Goalies don’t make any sense. Look at what Charlie Lindgren is doing out of nowhere.
 
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britdevil

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Feb 15, 2007
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I'm very much of the opinion that Ruff had to go in the off-season. Thanks for the season Lindy, now move into an advisory role please.

Not sure what firing him now does? Potential to completely torpedo the season.
 

Blackjack

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Schmid played 18 games last year, starting in 14, in the regular season. He had a nice run in the playoffs but that was 9 games with 8 starts.

That doesn’t tell you a ton about what we could expect the next season, he’s still developing. He should be in Utica since he’s struggling and that’s normal for a goalie at his age with his history.

And with Vanecek, bad seasons after a solid or even very good one happen with goalies.

I’m sure Toronto thought Samsonov would be better.
View attachment 788736View attachment 788735


The same with the Avs and Georgiev.
View attachment 788736
View attachment 788738

Even Dallas and Oettinger.
View attachment 788741View attachment 788740

We most definitely got other issues but goalies aren’t pieces of equipment that have no individual effect on the game.

And no one is voicing an optimistic plan for an instant goalie replacement? We know no one is available and there’s a number of teams that would be interested if someone decent was actually available.

If a team’s goalie stats only reflected their team’s defense then the Hurricanes have the worst team defense in the NHL. I don’t believe that’s true though.

I agree with just about all of this, I don't really know if it's rebutting my post though. The last point especially, when did I suggest that?
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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I wonder if Sal would have any interest in hopping behind the bench. Obviously would be a crazy jump in roles for him but he has been around the team a lot and clearly is a very smart, well spoken guy and knows his shit about the game. Don't know if he could be a permanent fix but I think he could potentially be able to instill some semblance of a better d-zone structure in these guys for a shorter time period.
"When Salvador says he’d help “however possible,” he really means it. He believes his broadcasting role can evolve into something special. He has no interest in the new play-by-play gig for MSG, nor does he want to be New Jersey’s assistant coach –– despite their assistants vacancies. Salvador wants to serve in a unique role: a front office/broadcaster hybrid.

“I don’t have a passion for coaching,” Salvador said. “I like the business side of the game –– the hockey operations, the player development. I’ve always gravitated towards that. There might be a combination of that tied in with the broadcasting.

“I don’t have a definitive end game here. I really enjoy the broadcasting and slowly adding more involvement with the Devils and looking to do more things with them.”"

 

Blackjack

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I don’t know what that means but sure.

In the plot of Space Jam aliens steal the talents of several star basketball players and Michael Jordan and Bugs bunny defeat them and the players get their talent back.

"When Salvador says he’d help “however possible,” he really means it. He believes his broadcasting role can evolve into something special. He has no interest in the new play-by-play gig for MSG, nor does he want to be New Jersey’s assistant coach –– despite their assistants vacancies. Salvador wants to serve in a unique role: a front office/broadcaster hybrid.

“I don’t have a passion for coaching,” Salvador said. “I like the business side of the game –– the hockey operations, the player development. I’ve always gravitated towards that. There might be a combination of that tied in with the broadcasting.

“I don’t have a definitive end game here. I really enjoy the broadcasting and slowly adding more involvement with the Devils and looking to do more things with them.”"


AGM, I bet with his Xs and Os he could be a good talent evaluator.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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The fact of the matter is that almost every advanced metric has this pointing directly at goaltending being the most significant issue. The defensive metrics show the team actually be quite good but they're saving way less than expected across all situations. Obviously these aren't 100% reliable stats but they are significant. The goalies have sucked. Sure there are tons of defensive lapses but it's still probably a 90% goaltending issue. We cannot let this go on any longer if they want to make the playoffs.
More like.. advanced schmetrics, am I right?!

But in all seriousness, I think the defense (system) is an issue as much as the goaltending; if the stats say otherwise then id need to question the validity of such numbers
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
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Part of me is paranoid that this isn't Lindy's system but more the analytics people saying this is the best system for creating chances, and that we'll see the same shit with the next coach. It's probably about time we found out once and for all though since the analytics people weren't really running things under Shero (hence him not being around now).
 

njdevils1982

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Part of me is paranoid that this isn't Lindy's system but more the analytics people saying this is the best system for creating chances, and that we'll see the same shit with the next coach. It's probably about time we found out once and for all though since the analytics people weren't really running things under Shero (hence him not being around now).

the best system for creating chances is obviously the drop pass
 
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Captain3rdLine

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Part of me is paranoid that this isn't Lindy's system but more the analytics people saying this is the best system for creating chances, and that we'll see the same shit with the next coach. It's probably about time we found out once and for all though since the analytics people weren't really running things under Shero (hence him not being around now).
I promise you the analytics people aren’t telling Lindy what system to run. This is the coaching staffs system.
 

Guttersniped

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The Hurricanes are a known entity defensively, so it’s a lot easier to identify that the goalie is mostly to blame there. Historically they have had plenty of JAG goalies who put up better than average numbers thanks to their defense. This is not what the devils are, so there’s no comparison to be made there whatsoever.

It’s not as simple saying “goalie on team A is bad and has bad stats, therefore the goalie on B who has similar stats must be exactly as bad as goalie A.” This would be doing the opposite of what you’re saying - making it seem like the skaters have no impact on goalie performance.

I’m not saying that though, we’re worse defensively this season and that makes it harder on our goalies.

I’m saying a goalie is a player and human too. They have up and down seasons. We got a guy who was dumped by another team and plucky fringe prospect trying to beat the odds.

If elite goalies can have an affect, then all goalies can have an affect. Average or even “bad” goalies in the NHL are talented too, this is a tough league, and they can have stretches where they play great. Those are just stretches, typically less than a season.

So sure, the team can do him some favors in front of him. And a top notch goalie coach might help too. But he’s a mediocre goalie, he was always going to have tough stretches. The other problems just add gasoline to that fire.

Schmid is very green, in a better world he’s working out his issues playing in Utica instead of sitting on a bench too much.

Carolina hitched their wagon to two old, injury prone goalies. It worked last season but injury and caught up with them this year.

They also thought Kochetkov has a future as a back-up, that’s why they gave him a 4 year/2m deal but he’s having trouble establishing himself as a NHL goalie. And he’s a year older than Schmid and had a more promising start.
 

Zippy316

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This team really needs a steady defender and a reliable goalie. The current defensive core just isn’t holding up right now, but you cant really fault it because of how green it is.

There just doesn’t seem to be a lot out there and giving up assets to salvage a season seems foolish. That being said, Fitz needs to figure something out before this season goes downhill quick.

Should definitely consider using some of Hamilton’s 9 million to grab a goalie they may not have the space for otherwise. Even if it’s someone like Allen who can at least tandem with VV for now with Schmid rotating in occasionally from the AHL.
 

Devils731

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Part of me is paranoid that this isn't Lindy's system but more the analytics people saying this is the best system for creating chances, and that we'll see the same shit with the next coach. It's probably about time we found out once and for all though since the analytics people weren't really running things under Shero (hence him not being around now).
I have the same wonder, although my wonder does go back to under Shero.

We saw Hynes running an unusual defenseman can roam the whole zone system, until it was so obviously bad that they stopped using it. Does the analytics group prefer complicated systems that look unique and wonderful on paper but are difficult to execute in real life? Have they held enough sway to tilt choices towards coaches with complicated systems?

Obviously I have no idea but it does seem the Devils have preferred unique systems the last bunch of years. That may have been more defensible when the team had little talent and maybe needed to win on the chalkboard to get that boost.

Edit: to add, whenever I’ve seen, read, or interacted with someone in the Devils analytics group they seemed smart and to have good thought processes about hockey. Also, that they watch a lot of video tape. So this isn’t to say the analytics group stinks.
 

McDuffz88

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Sep 18, 2019
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I'm very much of the opinion that Ruff had to go in the off-season. Thanks for the season Lindy, now move into an advisory role please.

Not sure what firing him now does? Potential to completely torpedo the season.
Yeah even with the great run last year I have always been against Ruff's system. Last year was just a perfect storm that Ruff will never repeat. A healthy lineup for 95% of the season, career years from all the top players, goalie playing good & a d corps that were all veterans with no rookies. Right now this team looks so lost. Our goalies are shot, we can't recover a puck to save our life, we leave the goalie to hang dry, & worst of all really bad mistakes where the whole system Ruff is running completely collapses. This system might be good at generating offense but it's not worth it. At the end of the day players like Hughes, Bratt, Nico will score in any system. The only player playing way above expectations is Mr. MVP McLeod (who I called during the offseason was due to a massive breakout season with most of the board laughing at me). Ruff was never supposed to be the dude to bring us to the holy land. On the original hiring Fitz himself said he is the coach to groom the rookies & get us to the players. Ruff has done flawless in that regard. He did exactly what he was brought in to do so Ruff gets all my praise for that. He created the superstars on this team & groomed the rookies perfect. It's now his time to step down now that his role has been achieved. We need a real playoff coach. One that is meant for getting us to the cup. There's 0 chance Ruff is that guy.
 

Captain3rdLine

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I have the same wonder, although my wonder does go back to under Shero.

We saw Hynes running an unusual defenseman can roam the whole zone system, until it was so obviously bad that they stopped using it. Does the analytics group prefer complicated systems that look unique and wonderful on paper but are difficult to execute in real life? Have they held enough sway to tilt choices towards coaches with complicated systems?

Obviously I have no idea but it does seem the Devils have preferred unique systems the last bunch of years. That may have been more defensible when the team had little talent and maybe needed to win on the chalkboard to get that boost.
They do not have enough sway
 

My3Sons

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I’m not saying that though, we’re worse defensively this season and that makes it harder on our goalies.

I’m saying a goalie is a player and human too. They have up and down seasons. We got a guy who was dumped by another team and plucky fringe prospect trying to beat the odds.

If elite goalies can have an affect, then all goalies can have an affect. Average or even “bad” goalies in the NHL are talented too, this is a tough league, and they can have stretches where they play great. Those are just stretches, typically less than a season.

So sure, the team can do him some favors in front of him. And a top notch goalie coach might help too. But he’s a mediocre goalie, he was always going to have tough stretches. The other problems just add gasoline to that fire.

Schmid is very green, in a better world he’s working out his issues playing in Utica instead of sitting on a bench too much.

Carolina hitched their wagon to two old, injury prone goalies. It worked last season but injury and caught up with them this year.

They also thought Kochetkov has a future as a back-up, that’s why they gave him a 4 year/2m deal but he’s having trouble establishing himself as a NHL goalie. And he’s a year older than Schmid and had a more promising start.

According to @Bleedred goalies and humans are mutually exclusive. Given you two have diametrically opposite views on this issue I am dumbfounded how to resolve it.
 

Devils731

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Jun 23, 2008
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They do not have enough sway
You have no idea and neither do I.

We do know the last GM was fired because he wasn’t open table enough so that suggests the owners do want groups the have influence outside of just the GM.

Also, that the owners like analytics so it would not surprise me that they do have a good sized voice at the table.
 

devilsblood

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The fact of the matter is that almost every advanced metric has this pointing directly at goaltending being the most significant issue. The defensive metrics show the team actually be quite good but they're saving way less than expected across all situations. Obviously these aren't 100% reliable stats but they are significant. The goalies have sucked. Sure there are tons of defensive lapses but it's still probably a 90% goaltending issue. We cannot let this go on any longer if they want to make the playoffs.
The advanced metrics available to we lay people.

In particular I think the xGF stats we see aren't very good.

But Sal was posting stats a month or so ago noting how we were amongst the worst in uncontested slot shots.

I also remember an odd man rush stat that didn't paint a pretty picture for NJ.
 
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NJDevs26

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I think you’re overestimating how much say the analytics people have here
Maybe but we know that Shero got canned months into a long-term extension because he didn't want a 'collaborative' effort, which is basically code for the GM having a lot of voices at the table as opposed to being more autocratic.
 

Devils Trap

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The advanced metrics available to we lay people.

In particular I think the xGF stats we see aren't very good.

But Sal was posting stats a month or so ago noting how we were amongst the worst in uncontested slot shots.

I also remember an odd man rush stat that didn't paint a pretty picture for NJ.
It’s the opposite. Devils are like bottom 3 in the NHl at allowing odd man rushes.

Problem is they still somehow are top 5 in odd man rushes leading to goals, so in our heads we think they are terrible T them.

One of the analytic guys on twitter did a whole thread on it. Basically we can’t buy a big save i if our lives depended on it.

Not directed at you, but for the people who don’t think it’s goaltending. I do think the defenders are playing scared knowing every single mistake leads to a puck in the back of their net. Every analytic has us as good defensively, but every single error leads to a goal against us
 

Captain3rdLine

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You have no idea and neither do I.

We do know the last GM was fired because he wasn’t open table enough so that suggests the owners do want groups the have influence outside of just the GM.

Also, that the owners like analytics so it would not surprise me that they do have a good sized voice at the table.
I guarantee the analytics department doesn’t have enough sway to be telling the coaches what system to run. That’s nuts to even think. They’re basically another version of a scouting department. Do you think the scouting department tells coaches what system to run? I promise you neither does.
 

NJDevs26

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I also wonder how Lindy, the guy who was Mr. Low Event with Hasek and Ryan Miller and slower teams in Buffalo pre-lockout somehow morphed into a batshit crazy offensive coach after it lol. He went from one extreme to the other, it definitely started before here with the Drury and Briere teams in Buffalo, but really you would think at some point he would see this system is not the answer with this group of players.
 
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Captain3rdLine

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Maybe but we know that Shero got canned months into a long-term extension because he didn't want a 'collaborative' effort, which is basically code for the GM having a lot of voices at the table as opposed to being more autocratic.
There’s a long long way from not listening to other voices and what is basically a scouting department telling the coaching staff what system they use.
 
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