Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season begins!

[My3Sons]

Friedman just said he doesn't see Lindy's seat being hot/doesn't make sense for them to make a change on his latest podcast that came out today

Thanks for sharing that. I'm curious where that is coming from since he's an industry unofficial mouthpiece. Someone wants that out there. Maybe Fitz looks at the injuries and youth on defense and goaltending and is not expecting the team to be all that consistent?

 

[Better Call Sal]

When people are talking about the defense and singling guys out, it bothers me. It's a unit. A unit that lost two guys who ate plenty of meaningful minutes in Graves and Severson, and has since lost a 3rd in Dougie. It takes time to grow accustomed to one another, and to read and react off each other. To think it just happens right away is hopeful at best.

Just because they are the more experienced players doesn't mean that their increased responsibilities as a result of the changes to the unit itself doesn't wear on them in some capacity. Doesn't mean that you can't be disappointed in how they've performed, but it's a very real factor. Siegenthaler has been the most disappointing to me. Bahl has struggled, but I expected that could happen and I feel Marino has attempted to cover for him a great deal given they've largely been paired together.

Hopefully Miller's return will help stabilize things a bit. Maybe allow him and Luke to stay together, and move Bahl with Nemec and Siegenthaler with Marino? What could it hurt?

 

[My3Sons]

When people are talking about the defense and singling guys out, it bothers me. It's a unit. A unit that lost two guys who ate plenty of meaningful minutes in Graves and Severson, and has since lost a 3rd in Dougie. It takes time to grow accustomed to one another, and to read and react off each other. To think it just happens right away is hopeful at best.

Just because they are the more experienced players doesn't mean that their increased responsibilities as a result of the changes to the unit itself doesn't wear on them in some capacity. Doesn't mean that you can't be disappointed in how they've performed, but it's a very real factor. Siegenthaler has been the most disappointing to me. Bahl has struggled, but I expected that could happen and I feel Marino has attempted to cover for him a great deal given they've largely been paired together.

Hopefully Miller's return will help stabilize things a bit. Maybe allow him and Luke to stay together, and move Bahl with Nemec and Siegenthaler with Marino? What could it hurt?

It's not any one thing as you are suggesting. It's a combination of things including the poor support from the forwards at times. Last night on the second Edmonton goal for example, it was apparent that something got switched up and led to a coverage breakdown. Hischier is marking McDavid until they get in the zone. At that point it looked like responsibility switched and Hischier goes to the front of the net. Then player start moving up in the zone as they think NJ will get the puck out. Hischier starts to go towards the blue line a bit but stays in the middle. The puck turns over and no one is on McDavid with Hischer high in the slot. I'm skeptical he didn't know his responsibility there but something was off. Marino of course stayed by the wall with a bit of puck watching. There is plenty to blame on the defense but I would like to see a trial run with a more typical simpler system that other teams can run successfully to know what we are really dealing with.

 

[tailfins]

IMO, we're going through the ugly part of the development curve. We've got a bunch of very high skill kids. They're used to winning by just being better at hockey.

The Devils don't make things hard on the other team. They don't make other teams work. I think they need to go through some significant adversity so they can understand they can no longer outskill other teams.

In all likelihood, the Devils need a coach who can instill structure. But, unless that coach is available now (Julien?), what's the point in firing Ruff now? I agree that his system is overly complex, but last year does show that it can work. I think it's better to look for a coach in the off-season.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Has anyone been fired or traded yet

 

[guitarguyvic]

I think what's most distressing about this regression is now uncertainty creeps in about what we really have in certain players and by extension the team beyond this season. Last year was the first time Siegs looked extremely solid - his first year with the team was not good, and before that the Caps didn't feel like he was worth keeping around. Marino had one good season with Pitts before having a mediocre one that was enough for them to dispose of him as well. Bahl is so early on in his career that we still have no idea what he really is. Mercer's first couple of seasons were good, but he's never been a real play driver...can he be relied upon to be something other than a solid middle six player who will produce mostly when surrounded by better talent? Bratt is a legit producer and play driver, but seems prone to completely disappearing at the most critical times. Timo hasn't yet shown he's a good fit on this roster. Nico is great but questions about his durability linger, and he also tends to disappear offensively for stretches.

I hate feeling like what we have may still not be good enough to expect really good seasons. I thought we were well past that after last year.

 

[Devs3cups]

I think what's most distressing about this regression is now uncertainty creeps in about what we really have in certain players and by extension the team beyond this season. Last year was the first time Siegs looked extremely solid - his first year with the team was not good, and before that the Caps didn't feel like he was worth keeping around. Marino had one good season with Pitts before having a mediocre one that was enough for them to dispose of him as well. Bahl is so early on in his career that we still have no idea what he really is. Mercer's first couple of seasons were good, but he's never been a real play driver...can he be relied upon to be something other than a solid middle six player who will produce mostly when surrounded by better talent? Bratt is a legit producer and play driver, but seems prone to completely disappearing at the most critical times. Timo hasn't yet shown he's a good fit on this roster. Nico is great but questions about his durability linger, and he also tends to disappear offensively for stretches.

I hate feeling like what we have may still not be good enough to expect really good seasons. I thought we were well past that after last year.

I thought you said last night that you weren’t worried about the long term, guess that changed quickly.

I’m not worried at all about the future so I don’t really want to debate it, but I think your Siegenthaler timetable is off unless I’m mistaken.

I remember him struggling when he got here during the season. I remember his 2021-2022 being excellent, even better than last year (which was also very good). He’s struggling this year but I wouldn’t give up on him now after 2 solid seasons.

 

[jkrdevil]

Thanks for sharing that. I'm curious where that is coming from since he's an industry unofficial mouthpiece. Someone wants that out there. Maybe Fitz looks at the injuries and youth on defense and goaltending and is not expecting the team to be all that consistent?

If you ever listen to Marek/Elliotte ever talk about a possible coaching change it always is a trade > would be better than a coaching change.

Part of it is they talk to coaches and managers all the time so the identify with them more.

That said the team probably needs both. They need a goalie…but they also need to be playing on their front foot more. There are still a net positive upfront but the have regressed at the margins which makes a difference.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

7 years and he’s not a core player?

I guess that’s a little contradictory. But I mean I don’t think he’s as big or important of a piece as I think a lot of fans were hoping. Still worth locking up and keeping around

 

[Mgd31]

As annoying as this season has been, we’re still in such a good spot for the medium and long term. We used to pray for a crumb of talent and now we’re just pumping guys like this out left and right:


One of the most impressive rookie dmen I’ve ever seen in a Devil uni…and it’s possible he isn’t even the best young d on the team.

Lol these cards show that Nemec is the best defensive D on our team. This just goes to show how awful Siegenthaler, Marino and Bahl have been defensively.

We really need another top 4 LD pronto.

 

[My3Sons]

Lol these cards show that Nemec is the best defensive D on our team. This just goes to show how awful Siegenthaler, Marino and Bahl have been defensively.

We really need another top 4 LD pronto.

That probably means shipping out Bahl. As tough as this season has been, I'm reluctant to give up on a younger defender who is being heavily tasked and may continue to improve.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I thought you said last night that you weren’t worried about the long term, guess that changed quickly.

I’m not worried at all about the future so I don’t really want to debate it, but I think your Siegenthaler timetable is off unless I’m mistaken.

I remember him struggling when he got here during the season. I remember his 2021-2022 being excellent, even better than last year (which was also very good). He’s struggling this year but I wouldn’t give up on him now after 2 solid seasons.

I don't know if I would say I'm "worried" about long-term, but I definitely feel less confident about the short and medium-term than I did three months ago. Honestly, I don't know what to think, and that's what really pisses me off. I'm tired of uncertainty.

The only thing I'm certain of is that Lindy's system stinks and he's not going to be part of the solution, regardless of the roster.

 

[Guttersniped]

There was no legitimate add out there besides Hellebuyck and Saros and both teams wanted bounties for either goaltender that wouldn't have made sense. And the kids aren't the problem on defense for the 99th time, it's guys like Marino and Siegs are who are playing at 2% of their 2022-2023 level.

Saros was never available at any point.

Winnipeg never really wanted to trade Hellebuyck. He was wary of a rebuild so had some doubts about staying and they “explored” a trade, but they wanted to re-sign him badly and did.

Not even sure if Anaheim wants to trade Gibson for all the noise about that.

I don’t think Marino has been bad this season, he gets brutal minutes and Bahl is typically the guy who gets the pair in trouble, but he was bad on the 2nd goal last night.

 

[jkrdevil]

That probably means shipping out Bahl. As tough as this season has been, I'm reluctant to give up on a younger defender who is being heavily tasked and may continue to improve.

I think it means salary dumping Smith and moving Bahl to a 7 d role.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[Mgd31]

That probably means shipping out Bahl. As tough as this season has been, I'm reluctant to give up on a younger defender who is being heavily tasked and may continue to improve.

I am not going to blame him because he's better suited for a bottom pairing role and should not be playing top 4 shutdown minutes. He's just not there yet. Marino and Siegenthaler have no excuse and are killing us.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeeeeash, strawman. You mocked me for my Ruff and structure takes so just coming back to see if you’ve wised up yet

“Mocked you” lol. Plenty of people on this board have been criticizing the defensive system the entire time.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[guitarguyvic]

Must be a total coincidence that the D looked like shit in 21-22 and 23-24.

And I have to say...I don't think the D looked otherworldly last year either. More like average and we caught lightning in a bottle with VV and Shmid. In the end it wasn't sustainable, hence what we saw in the playoffs and now this year.

 

[JK3]

I propose we employ the Bubble Hockey Defensive Zone System.

1. The Dmen need to be stuck on rails. This forces them to stay on their side and only cover their quadrant of ice. This will do wonders as far as confusion, overloading and back door wide open looks.

2. As soon as they gain possession, no dicking around with the puck, just spin around as hard as they can and whack the puck out of the zone up to the forwards for a perfect breakout.

3. Defensemen can not go past the redline at all so they don’t get caught up ice. This will cut down on the odd man rushes and work wonders for Smith.

4. Goaltending strategy: They can only move back and forth within the crease. Absolutely no adventures out of the net to play the puck. They also have to play stand up all the time. None of this butterfly, reverse vee crap and flopping around on the ice. This will also allow your goaltender to play a minimum of 70 games a year.

5. Bonus fan interaction: The Prudential Center will now wire every seat in the arena with a booooo button for fans to voice their displeasure.

 

[Devs3cups]

Was a topic this week on the Prospects board.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

There was no legitimate add out there besides Hellebuyck and Saros and both teams wanted bounties for either goaltender that wouldn't have made sense.

I am more than comfortable giving up a player like Mercer if an elite goalie is received in return. Hellebuyck and Saros are elite. Hellebuyck the ship has sailed with the contract extension. He is that good that he'll always keep Winnipeg in the wildcard race even if they have a dogshit team.

For Saros, i guess there is still a chance we may be able to prise him out of Nashville with Askarov the goalie of the future in waiting. But it be an offseason deal.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

The one that hurts the most is keeping Lindy for Brunette because we were all clamoring for it as a fanbase, it was the most in unison this fanbase was about something in a while.

?? uh not all.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

May not be a popular opinion but Mercer might not be the player some people were hoping. Just not sure he has talent to be a core player or anything much better than he showed first couple seasons.

Wouldn’t be surprised if he never broke 60 points.
Still valuable to have given his energy, versatility, and reliability but ya not sure he’s a big core guy. I’d be looking at giving him 5M this summer. Wouldn’t really want to give him more. Would go 5.5 max for some term (say 7 years) and that would probably be a pretty decent deal long run.

He won't be as a center, that's for sure....

But yea, Ruff will keep playing him there to lower his value....or something.