Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2022-23 season thread part III

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

This chart is great. The bottom right corner made me chuckle given who both stand out, along with a familiar 3rd name in that quadrant.

literally bust out laughing when I saw this (both parts)

 

[guitarguyvic]

The Severson discussion is funny to me. He's the same guy he's always been.

I do think the Devils should trade Severson, but:
- I think that can't happen until close to the trade deadline (no teams have space)
- I think losing Severson will make the team worse

I just think the team isn't going to be a Cup contender this year and should still be still thinking of acquiring assets.

The other option is to trade Graves. But I think it's much harder for the Devils to replace LD2 (with Smith or Bahl) vs RD3 (with Smith).

If you think the team will be worse off making these trades, then you don't do them. I don't care if the team is not a legit Stanley Cup contender - learning to win is important and I wouldn't want to do anything that diminishes their ability to do that right now.

Now if you believe that Devils can still be as good as they are now without these guys, that's a different story. The only reason I hesitate to believe this could be the case is because we really have no one else to rely on for defensive depth if injuries occur. That being the reality, I'd only consider trading Sevs for a roster player that might round out some of our deficiencies. What are the chances Fitz can swing such a trade? Seems slim.

 

[guitarguyvic]

This Severson stuff is just a ridiculous overreaction.

I wish someone with more time and dedication than me would make a montage of all the bad turnovers that players make in the course of a game that we just forget about because they don’t turn into goals.

How many other d-man on this team do you think make the stupid decision he made last night at the same frequency he has?

Bad turnovers happen but there's the question of frequency, the context of how/why the turnover happened, the context of the game situation, etc.

Severson chose to make a risky play at a critical time when even less seasoned players recognize that's not a wise decision. He did this minutes after the head coach reminded the entire team to not take stupid risks. He does this at a higher frequency than pretty much anyone else on this team, and he's done it consistently since he first donned a Devils sweater. On top of that he didn't even seem to acknowledge after the game that he f***ed up. f*** that shit.

Good on Lindy for finally sending this guy a message. We aren't basement dwellers anymore who can just ignore his follies because the team isn't competing for anything.

 

[Better Call Sal]

How many other d-man on this team do you think make the stupid decision he made last night at the same frequency he has?

Bad turnovers happen but there's the question of frequency, the context of how/why the turnover happened, the context of the game situation, etc.

Severson chose to make a risky play at a critical time when even less seasoned players recognize that's not a wise decision. He did this minutes after the head coach reminded the entire team to not take stupid risks. He does this at a higher frequency than pretty much anyone else on this team, and he's done it consistently since he first donned a Devils sweater.

Good on Lindy for finally sending this guy a message. We aren't basement dwellers anymore who can just ignore his follies because the team isn't competing for anything.

You nailed it. I’ll try and find the full quote from Lindy’s presser when asked about it but you summed it up pretty much. You could tell he was beyond aggravated.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Severson is ranked 17th out of 22 skaters on the team in plus/minus. The other five players worse than him are all forwards; two of them are young players not known for their defensive prowess, one is an unproven rookie, and the other played just six games . Sevs is also an even plus/minus player on a team with a +30 5v5 goal differential and for his career -129. The excuse used to be he was playing on bad teams. He no longer has that excuse yet the story remains the same.

He's an extremely flawed NHL player who was playing top four minutes for a basement dwelling team and is now carrying rather mediocre stats playing bottom pairing for a playoff caliber team and cannot be trusted to play responsibly in tight situations.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Dougie’s icing and Siegenthaler’s shitty effort on the boards blew the game against Dallas. I just want the best lineup out there, especially in the middle of a losing streak.

 

[Blackjack]

How many other d-man on this team do you think make the stupid decision he made last night at the same frequency he has?

I don’t know, all of them? How frequently does he make them? When was the last bad one before last night?

Bad turnovers happen but there's the question of frequency, the context of how/why the turnover happened, the context of the game situation, etc.

There’s also the context of the fact that the turnover didn’t generate a particularly dangerous scoring chance. Konecny had pressure and was forced to shoot fron between the faceoff circles without much threat of a deke. I’m sorry, that’s a moderately difficult save at most.

I won’t deny that it was a bad turnover, go ahead and bench him for the rest of the game (even though doing so probably hurt the team) scratching him for another game is just straight up scapegoating him. It sucks.

Severson chose to make a risky play at a critical time when even less seasoned players recognize that's not a wise decision. He did this minutes after the head coach reminded the entire team to not take stupid risks.

Yeah, I agree, this move is more about Ruff’s ego than doing what’s best for the team.

He does this at a higher frequency than pretty much anyone else on this team, and he's done it consistently since he first donned a Devils sweater. On top of that he didn't even seem to acknowledge after the game that he f***ed up. f*** that shit.

I didn’t see the post game show, but Severson is a team player and I really don’t give a shit if he didn’t feel like prostrating himself and throwing himself at the mercy of the coach, media, and fans.

Good on Lindy for finally sending this guy a message. We aren't basement dwellers anymore who can just ignore his follies because the team isn't competing for anything.

Yeah, great, can’t wait to see Brendan Smith out there instead of one of the better defenders in the NHL. That’s really good for the team. Brendan Smith never turns the puck over or gets coned out there.

 

[Devils731]

I have trouble squaring Lindy being mad at the team being too cautious on the PP when Lindy put out a cautious lineup a few weeks ago with Lindy being mad Severson being making a fairly generic aggressive pass into the slot that is tipped and goes the other way because the other defenseman was also being aggressive.

For me, the Devils play an aggressive style that accepts some mistakes will be made but Lindy seems to want the team to know the results before they try a play…which would lead a team to play ultra conservative.

I don’t think it’s a good look on Lindy that he apparently knows the answer to every play that doesn’t work and it’s the team not knowing that’s the issue, even when they seem to be following what Lindy wants.

 

[Blackjack]

Dougie’s icing and Siegenthaler’s shitty effort on the boards blew the game against Dallas. I just want the best lineup out there, especially in the middle of a losing streak.

Yeah, weird that we didn’t flog them for days on end about their mistakes. I guess icing the puck is fine though, as is cross checking someone into the boards needlessly to put your team down a man.

I don’t have any issue with Dougie or Siegs by the way, but the double standard is just gross.

I have trouble squaring Lindy being bad at the team being too cautious on the PP when Lindy put out a cautious lineup a few weeks ago with Lindy being mad Severson being making a fairly generic aggressive pass into the slot that is tipped and goes the other way because the other defenseman was also being aggressive.

For me, the Devils play an aggressive style that accepts some mistakes will be made but Lindy seems to want the team to know the results before they try a play…which would lead a team to play ultra conservative.

I don’t think it’s a good look on Lindy that he apparently knows the answer to every play that doesn’t work and it’s the team not knowing that’s the issue, even when they seem to be following what Lindy wants.

Thank you, perfectly stated.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Dougie’s icing and Siegenthaler’s shitty effort on the boards blew the game against Dallas. I just want the best lineup out there, especially in the middle of a losing streak.

Yeah but they don't do that kind of bullshit regularly.

 

[MauDevils]

"Damon you're going to love the view from the press box. It's magnificent."

 

[Better Call Sal]

Watching the clip I think gives more to the actual tone of how Ruff felt about that play by Sevy as opposed to the quote in the tweet from the media.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I know there was speculation that it was causing his dip in play

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Yeah but they don't do that kind of bullshit regularly.

I love them both, but Dougie regularly blunders and Siegenthaler has been absolutely horrible over this last stretch of games for the most part. Probably one of the biggest reasons for any dip in play has been Siegenthaler and Marino falling off.

Severson has been out there for 9 GF and 4 GA in the last 10 and has been mostly good.

 

[NJDevs26]

A big part of me thinks he wouldn’t be scratched if his attitude on the play and Lindy’s weren’t completely different in the postgame

 

[OmNomNom]

A big part of me thinks he wouldn’t be scratched if his attitude on the play and Lindy’s weren’t completely different in the postgame

team needs to be as pissed as haula was last game

 

[Devs3cups]

A big part of me thinks he wouldn’t be scratched if his attitude on the play and Lindy’s weren’t completely different in the postgame

Bingo. He honestly didn’t seem to care. After every L, you can see everyone look disappointed. Damon didn’t look like he cared, and I usually don’t care about that stuff. It was so evident. I’d expect more from the longest tenured Devil. It was a bad look.

 

[Jets012]

 

[glenwo2]

He's a vet in the league for awhile now.

He should be better at executing than what we've seen.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I don’t know, all of them? How frequently does he make them? When was the last bad one before last night?

If you watch nearly every game this team plays, you know they happen more often than for other players on the team. I know plus/minus is poo-poo'd but it's very useful within the team context, and I posted where he stands in that regard. So it's not like there's no data to back up the idea that he's not as much of a net positive as people claim. Also, people like to say that he doesn't make these bad decisions anymore frequently than anybody else they are just more catastrophic when they happen...as if that's not consequential. I'd rather have a guy who makes less catastrophic mistakes more frequently than someone who makes horrid decisions at critical times that lead to goals 90% of the time they happen, at back breaking moments that essentially ice the game.

There’s also the context of the fact that the turnover didn’t generate a particularly dangerous scoring chance. Konecny had pressure and was forced to shoot fron between the faceoff circles without much threat of a deke. I’m sorry, that’s a moderately difficult save at most.

He was still able to get a clean shot off in the slot area on a breakaway. I consider that a pretty dang dangerous chance. Also, there's a difference between failing to execute making a save on a breakaway vs. a skater willingly deciding to make an optional risky play at a time when he should know better than to do that.

I won’t deny that it was a bad turnover, go ahead and bench him for the rest of the game (even though doing so probably hurt the team) scratching him for another game is just straight up scapegoating him. It sucks.

How is it scapegoating? You can point to the team not being able to score more than one goal, but again, what Damon did is very different from a player simply not executing.

Yeah, I agree, this move is more about Ruff’s ego than doing what’s best for the team.

What? This is literally the first time he's ever done this to Damon, despite it having happened many times before. If anything, he's been more than patient enough with this guy.

I didn’t see the post game show, but Severson is a team player and I really don’t give a shit if he didn’t feel like prostrating himself and throwing himself at the mercy of the coach, media, and fans.

What makes him a "team player"...can you point to some examples? I'm not sure what you might point to, but I know for me personally, a veteran who is a team player would A) Not have made that stupid ass play in that type of game at that critical moment in the first place, and B) If he did decide to do something that dumb, he would have shown genuine contrition and accountability afterwards.

Yeah, great, can’t wait to see Brendan Smith out there instead of one of the better defenders in the NHL. That’s really good for the team. Brendan Smith never turns the puck over or gets coned out there.

One of the better defenders in the NHL?? He can't even crack our top 4 anymore. GOH with that. Also, see my previous comments in the first paragraph.

 

[Blackjack]

This can’t be right, I heard he turns puck over all the time.

 

[glenwo2]

This can’t be right, I heard he turns puck over all the time.

Not all the time.

 

[Triumph]

The Devils want to be aggressive but aggression in a tied game late in the third is seldom justified, unfortunately. Especially against a team like the Flyers who don't have a lot of players who excel in OT.

This can’t be right, I heard he turns puck over all the time.

Giveaways are an awful stat and Cordell is embarrassing himself by using it.

 

[NJDevs26]

LOL the still shot doesn’t do that justice…looking at that in real time and on replay there’s no justification for it. And is it really the worst thing in the world to send a message by coming down on a vet after four straight losses where dumb mistakes have killed us throughout? Lemaire was doing this shit almost three decades ago and he was a master manipulator then.

 

[Bleedred]

I kind of agree that he probably shouldn’t be scratched.

It might be a little too ballsy of a move.

I maintain he still makes us a better team right now, even if I think he has to go after this year.